Curse

Sagius Truthbarron · Feb 20, 2006, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdaran Longfoot

People play Iway for quick fame, not to win HoH. Atleast smart people don't play Iway to win HoH (unless your actually good).

Your wrong saying they are dumb, Iway does take SOME skill to even make it to the 3rd map. High rank Iway (and sometimes lower, since Iway rank doesn't mean quite as much) can use actual skill to win.

I play Iway because I'm on at odd hours alot and my guild isn't on 24/7.

And last of all, Paladins are NOT terrible. ANY AND ALL BUILDS ARE GOOD IF YOU PLAY THEM RIGHT. There are other factors that could make it not very good, like compatability with your party members, but overall ANY build can be good.

People seem to keep missinterpretting what I'm saying.

First off, I didn't say a thing about winning halls, you were judging what I was saying on the views of others. Iway doesn't garuntee quick fame, sometimes (depending on the group) you will get 2 fame in 3-4 runs, then the group disbands. It all depends on the group and the overall rank of the group doesn't really have any bearing.

Someone said IWAY was a 'winning strategy'. People don't play IWAY becuase it wins, they play it becuase A. Its easy to play and understand B. Its easy to get a group for. I didn't really mean 'dumb'. I play IWAY too, even for fun.

I didn't say "PALADINS" were terrible, I said the PALADIN PRE-MADE BUILD was. Have you ever seen it before? I have no problem with W/mo or R/E or Mo/R or whatever.

kais · Feb 20, 2006, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poison Ivy

All of this is mainly due to that Warriors have the most "difference" from the other classes. They need to approach the target to attack, they have high dmg, good offence and good defences ( with comes with a price ), and energy is almost gibberish to them since they rely on AD so they rush in, think the Monks have ulimited energy to keep team healed, and when they die...ZOMFAG NOOB MONKZORS!!1111!!!11!1!!!!!1111!!one!!!!111!!!11

Any fool (Warriors) can run into a group without second thought then blame the monks...and most do.

*cough*

Anyways, after 5 months of GW, the only thing that I have discovered on my own is that NEVER creat a Warrior as your first char if your a newbie.

...what the hell we gonna do when the Assassins start to pile up when Faction is released...

i actually made my first char was a warrior, as i thought it was easy enough to play ( play not master)... anyway, got bored of it quickly

. but truly though, i dont think ive ever been such a jerk as I was too afraid to get yelled at if i did something wrong

Pevil Lihatuh · Feb 20, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by KurtTheBehemoth

A perfect example of this coming from a Ranger:

I was in a group doing Ruins of Surmia today, and a guildie in LA starts talking to me. We begin to have a whole conversation about pricing and when the next guild raffle is gonna take place. So without even thinking about it I turn off teamchat and just start following the team. I'm not targeting anything really. Just pressing control and clicking on the leaders name. Well fast forward to 20 minutes later. We are at the end and someone is dead and another person is yelling noob. My initial thought is "Oh crap they are yelling at me!" Nope, they are yelling at the W/Mo. No one even noticed the Ranger that was walking into walls and hadn't shot an arrow since the bonus.

haha thats brilliant. Don't think i've ever done that with my ranger

Another reason people think warriors are noobs is coz they have adrenaline. Every other class likes to wait in between fights in order to be useful next fight; for a warrior, they're pretty much useless at the start of a fight unless they rush into it. No adrenaline, very little energy = not much use except standing there trading blows. So of course many warriors will feel the need to rush in. Heck, even I feel the need (and try to resist

) even though I played a R/Me and a Mo/E before playing a warrior. I always hench though instead of taking pugs, so if i do rush and die, its only me who's gonna get annoyed.

And of course pvp and pve are different things. Some peoples narrowmindedness means "omg you're using a different set up to me/different armour, you must be a n00b" as we've already seen demonstrated with the platemail thing. Ok so certain things are proven more effective for certain roles, but just coz you don't stick to a cookie cutter build doesn't mean you're a noob. Kudos to those trying new builds instead of just heading to the build forum and swiping someone elses. How else are we meant to find the new 'uber' build for pvp/pve?

Problem is, everyone has things that they consider noob. Warriors, 55monks, iway, SS, trapping, not using x armour, not using x weapon, not having x weapon, having x armour (omg ebayer!!!)... you get the message. Pretty much anyone doing something different to you, even slightly, will earn you the noob title in this game.

Jetdoc · Feb 20, 2006, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poison Ivy

Anyways, after 5 months of GW, the only thing that I have discovered on my own is that NEVER creat a Warrior as your first char if your a newbie.

I completely disagree...I think the main reason that people create W/Mo's to start off with is that they are by far the easiest to understand and the best to learn the mechanics of the game with.

Sure, you'll have those new players that will load up their skill bar with nothing but attack skills (and sprint, of course, since getting to the battle is SOOO slow). However, after a while, even those naive, new players will realize that they are dying of their own accord and will learn to use their secondary skills to help them survive. Especially when they get later in the game.

To me, playing a Warrior also teaches you something that a new player that starts the game with a caster doesn't grasp easily - DEFENSE.

What I mean by defense is that casters and rangers generally focus more on their casting/attack skills and less on personal defense. That's the job of the "meat shields", and if any enemies sneak through to them then "it's the noob warrior's fault". This eventually becomes a crutch for most ranged attackers, because a panic can set in when they are besieged by enemies.

Warriors learn to deal with multiple enemies pounding on them at once, and when to realize that it's time to "get the heck outta Dodge". This, to me, is a key aspect to being able to solo the game later on. And this is why, other than 55HP versions, you rarely see ANY other class attempting to solo anything...they have a hard time grasping the "fight or flight" aspect of the game and how important defense is in survival.

Raxxman · Feb 20, 2006, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Another aspect of people thinking Warriors are noobs is the Paladin build.

However I must echo the call that sometimes people don't understand the meaning of GET BACK. So many times I've tried to pull only to find that the entire group is right behind me. This means I can't pull, I CAN get agro but that means I have to wade into ALL the freaks else I'm pulling them into the casters.

Divinus Stella · Feb 20, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

The reason 99% of warriors are utter noobs is down to the image of warriors, a muscle clad 7ft man must be extremely appealing to most younger children, they think that because their character has the most muscle and is the tallest that naturally he does the most damage and cannot be harmed by anything.

I rarely see a female warrior act like Rambo on speed, that’s because the person behind the female warrior isn’t playing it for the "badass invincibility", instead they are playing the class for its intended role as part of a team.

There’s noobs in every class, I’ve even seen noob mesmers on occasions, its just more common in the warrior class because of the looks and the shiny sword that attracts the kids, when i let my younger brothers have a go on guild wars they make warriors, or necros with swords because of the badass looks, they couldn't care less about damage or efficiency.

.killjoy · Feb 20, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Yes it is always either the Monks fault or the Warriors fault... but really without monks or warriors this game would be no where.. and people sometimes do not appreciate these 2 classes but i always give a good war. or much a ty if they do good keepin person alive

Ole Man Bourbon · Feb 20, 2006, 07:57 PM // 19:57

The problem most Warriors have, aside from being Leeroy Jenkins idiots, is knowing how to be versatile. Attacking, interrupting, tanking, calling targets, drawing arrows on the maps, etc are all various elements to Warrior-ing that good W's know how and when to use.

I agree with Warriors being more obvious when they make mistakes. Sometimes it's fun to watch the Eles and such work when in a group. You'd be surprised how often they are doing NOTHING productive and getting away with it.

While on the subject, one of my favorite n00bs is the "Help Me!!!" Monk in PvP. He needs personal bodyguards. He panics. He screams for heals. He has no mana. He ctrl clicks on everything in the HUD. Then he cries and calls people "n00bs" when he dies in 10 seconds. Heh heh. It's worth losing just to see these people in action up close.

The ultimatum-crybaby "I'm taking my ball and going home in the middle of the game if I don't have my way, even if it's only one person being an idiot, Monks" are great too.

Epinephrine · Feb 20, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

I think that the proportion of crappy players may be about the same per profession. There may be a few more horrible wariors than morrible mesmers, just because the really bad players will hate playing a mesmer for example, but I suspect the odds are about the same. Let's say 1 in ten people is bad enough to stick out as a problem, in a higher level mission for example. That means that 57% of random groups have someone bad enough to torpedo the mission (.9^8). Given that there are more warriors out there than anything else (look around the district, excepting farming districts which have a population of monks) the odds get high that the idiot was a warrior - it's just a matter of sampling though - you have 3 Wa/Mos in the party, 2 monks and a few others mixed in... Now, if the warrior is the idiot he'll be obvious, and doom the group - you have three tries for that. If the monk is bad, there's a chance he'll let the warrior, who is out front, die. This looks like a bad warrior too, but might really be a monk or monk/warrior combined effect. Given the sampling problem, and the perception problem I'm not surprised that warriors get a bad rap. Plus, they might actually be a little worse on average, simply because it is recommended for new players and ids appealing to the "go bash something" mentality.

Ken Dei · Feb 21, 2006, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Just some tips I've picked up from being W for those asking "how do i do better?"

1.) Practice your build until it's second nature....
2.) Take that build, and run straight into a bunch of mobs that can kill you with either a healer NPC or no NPCs, then try and stay alive as long as you can, or even better, win. Practice this till you learn to survive in a "panic" situation where you/a party member, have over aggroed and you can't run away.
3.) 2 second checks, look at the chat window for orders, at the mini map for possible incoming patrols, at your health, then at everyone elses health.
4.) Learn about other classes, visual signals for skills, learn to wait, your armor won't rust if you give the monk 20-30 seconds to recharge.
5.) Adrenaline is nice but let the mobs come to you.
6.) If you have 2 mobs on you and a third got past you, do not chase after it unless you have to. Any half decent group can take out the one guy that got past you, and if you run immediately to the aid of your allies, who may not even need the aid, you'll be dragging two more mobs near the soft targets.
7.) Position and terrain are your friends, if you can hide behind hills/walls to avoid archer fire while you deal with melees.
8.) Bring a BOW, yes, even if you're not a W/R, many times you'll want to assist with pulling if no ranger is available, or if a set of wall enemies need clearing, yes 2-10 dmg isn't much but you're helping. Also, if whatever you're firing at can fire back, it might be best to open the volley so the enemies target YOU in your heavy armor while the skilled but softer ranged players kill the targets. Perfect example is the Dunes of Dispair right before you enter the fort, clearing the archers.
9.) Learn to give orders. Amazing as it is, normally the giving orders falls on the class of Warriors, Rangers and Monks. If you see an incoming patrol (mini map check) ping it on the map 2-3 times, wait 2 seconds and if no one starts moving back, ping again 2-3 times, if the ignore you further, just ping like the blood devil till they move. Please do not ping like crazy at first, that will just get you ignored. People will tell you to shut up and stop pinging so much, these people obviously didn't grasp that it was for the teams survival, ignore them.

10.) Orders Continued: Learning to quick draw the basic lines on a minimap:

1. Long line, curving along a path: Indicates where the team needs to go.
2. An X on a path or group of mobs: don't go that way or avoid that group
3. A rough circle around a mob group: That's our target.
4. Quick back and forth line in front of the lead person: Slow down, or if done even faster, STOP.
5. Circle around a patroling group with a line: Indicates said patrols path, usually used by experienced players to help avoid unnessesary aggro.
6. An arrow or three lines drawn from the front of the group to the back: Retreat!
7. Double Ping: Item of general interest to the group, either an afk member, a patrol, mob group, important NPC, or called target.

Typed orders are better if you can type them quickly and clearly, if you can't, use the minimap.

There's a LOT more to learn about being a good W, and it is not to all be found in just being a Dmg or Stance Tank. Some of the best W I've ever found were multipurpose hybrids, in fact a lot of the players better then me were hybrids (there are a lot better then me no doubt, just saying).

And a personal tips for discouraged W/Mo, I don't care what any one says about W low energy, you CAN help with healing, Word of Healing is great for that. A couple protect spells help too, people who say it's stupid to use energy with a W are not experienced with a W that manages thier energy well. My suggestion though is bring no skills that are above 10 energy usage, and the ones that are 10 need to last a while. Also bring a focus, if your monk has died and the battle can only be won by NOT taking the time to rez them, become the back-up monk, even with just Word and Breeze you might be able to pull the team through those last couple of mobs. Don't argue with this, I've done it plenty at many stages of the game.

There's tons more to be learned about being a decent W, but some of those things I don't remember right now, and some can't be taught at all, they just need to be learned.

demonblade · Feb 21, 2006, 01:32 AM // 01:32

I don't think all warriors are noobs, I think at least 1/2 of all warriors are noobs.
In most of the PUG I was in, there are ALWAYS 1 warrior that call targets and manage not to let the aggro go to casters, while there is 1 warrior who pretend to go afk/aggro like mad/HEAL ME!!!! and ultimately REZ ME!!!
Just don't expect all of them to be good, and also don't assume all of them are bad. I think you can tell if they are noobs just from most of their names (I might be wrong, don't throw eggs at me).

Cjlr · Feb 21, 2006, 01:45 AM // 01:45

I always resent warrior hate. It's so prevalent...

The same things that make a crappy player of any class make a crappy warrior. It's just that they stand out more than anyone except maybe a monk.

The other thing is adrenaline... You don't really need it all that badly going into a fight - you should be able to charge it up and use it as necessary - but chances are you won't want to use it when a fight is nearly over, leaving you with two or three, even four (and, god forbid, more) adrenal skills that are now fully charged; and you deprived of targets.

It can be downright painful at times to stop and wait for the monk (or ele... *shudders*) to recharge their energy, and watch those adrenal skills blink out every so slowly...

But of course, that's no excuse. You're there for you team, not yourself. If you can't handle teamwork Guild Wars really isn't the game for you. Nuff said.

tafy69 · Feb 21, 2006, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Im a PvP warrior and yesterday a friend asked me to help him out on ring of fire or something, so I reluctantly agreed

Anyway I take a bunch of defensive stuff like watch yourself and stuff and get in there, but I got in and died...

PvE you gota be a mindreader to know if your monks low on energy or something, no Vent etc

Soon enough I was 60dp while the other warrior was still full strength lol, damm wammos

Tainek · Feb 21, 2006, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pevil Lihatuh

And of course pvp and pve are different things. Some peoples narrowmindedness means "omg you're using a different set up to me/different armour, you must be a n00b" as we've already seen demonstrated with the platemail thing. Ok so certain things are proven more effective for certain roles, but just coz you don't stick to a cookie cutter build doesn't mean you're a noob. Kudos to those trying new builds instead of just heading to the build forum and swiping someone elses. How else are we meant to find the new 'uber' build for pvp/pve?

Its not that people are using different armour thats a problem, its the fact that the armour theyre using IS in almost every situation, Completly inferior to gladiatiors, its a balance problem. the +5 armour against elemental is traded off for -5 vs physical, this would be fine, except that you also forfeit the energy bonus (which warriors with practically no energy and energy regen need).

there basically is NO situation where that +5 would be anywhere as useful as the energy- for a start at face value that extra energy can be used for a Significantly more effective defensive spell/stance.

if somebodys using platemale, then the following is possible:

1: they havent read the armour statistics properly, and gone straight for the "traditional" platemale- these are almost always leyroys
2: they Know its inferior, but like the athstetics- this i dont mind, if they can pull it off, but for PVP, using an athsthetic armour is pretty stupid really.... (and gimping yourself hurts your team as well)
3: They belive Platemale is "Ubar!1!!11!!" - usually the worst kind, and always rushers

its not about different play styles, platemale is deliberatly Gimping yourself

coolsti · Feb 21, 2006, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by .killjoy

Yes it is always either the Monks fault or the Warriors fault... but really without monks or warriors this game would be no where.. and people sometimes do not appreciate these 2 classes but i always give a good war. or much a ty if they do good keepin person alive

I don't agree. I do agree that at least one monk, maybe two, are needed for the usual team (unless some skill trick like order of the vampire or a lot of self healing is used instead). But I do not agree that a Warrior is so essential for a party.

You can actually do quite well without a warrior in the group. Ranger's pets and Necro minions can serve as tanks if needed. Other professions can also serve as tanks with the proper skills setup, e.g. elementalists with their wards and protective spells. You can also do quite well without tanks in the group if you play carefully, and move your butt during a battle when needed.

I think one problem that occurs with Warriors is that a lot of them actually believe they are so darn necessary to the team, and then they act like it. This kind of warrior then takes over and decides to run the show, leading to rushing ahead out of the reach of the monks and other support, rushing ahead without waiting for the rest of the party to regen, etc. etc. Indeed, the best team-play that a group can do is to not have the warriors take the lead, but rather let a ranger or elementalist determine the pace of the battle, where the warrior is ready to step forward and tank and block as things progress.

Two mistakes I often see when people are making parties for the higher level missions: taking more than 2 warriors in the party and/or taking more than two monks in the party. Taking more than 2 monks means more healing power, but much less damaging power, and this simply makes things all the more difficult. Taking more than 2 Warriors means simply too many tanks and lack of space for other characters, i.e. the party is not diverse enough.

Afterthought: PVE can indeed be a lot more fun than you probably imagined, if you have the correct party composition (to make it challenging yet manageable) and a lot of team-play and team-work.

Raxxman · Feb 21, 2006, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Note a Warrior with an Axe build has very little use for Energy. I never have energy problems with an axe cause my rate of uptake outways my rate of usage. So Glads is only useful due to the +100 vs phyiscal.

I'd rather not look like a gimp

I really hope they look at knights and give it the buff it need

Tainek · Feb 21, 2006, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raxxman

Note a Warrior with an Axe build has very little use for Energy. I never have energy problems with an axe cause my rate of uptake outways my rate of usage. So Glads is only useful due to the +100 vs phyiscal.

I'd rather not look like a gimp

I really hope they look at knights and give it the buff it need

For great justice, frenzy/flurry, all eat up your energy, and make an adrenaline build much more potent

Jhored Tallspear · Feb 21, 2006, 10:48 AM // 10:48

I understand and sympathise with you.

I have only been playing GW for about a month, and I chose a Wa/Mo as my first char because i wanted something that wasn't too complicated to start with so i get to grips with the game. I've also found that a Wa/Mo is a good choice for soloing or using henchies. You get lots of health and can heal yourself, so your mistakes are less likely to kill you.

I have played in a lot of PUG's, mainly because I like to see different approaches to the game, or beacuse i'm bored of exploring with just henchies. I have to admit that there are a lot of Warriors out there who seem to have a false sense of their own abilities and tend to charge right in. I also have to admit to seeing plenty of monks and rangers do the same thing though. I personally don't like to rush, and prefer to play a blocking or tactical strike in any group, where i try to defend the monks and casters from the big dudes, or strike at the mages of the enemy group. I admit to having over-extended and died a number of times...but I'm learning from it.

So I can see that it would be easy to form an opinion that a lot of the Wa/Mo's out there are idiots...me.. I'm a newb, trying hard not to be a noob.

Juk3n · Feb 21, 2006, 11:23 AM // 11:23

ok, so let me get this straite, u hate on w/mo (not that i am one but i have been for certain situations) but now u hate on plate?/ wtf? Theres nothing wrong with plate, it has its benefits and draw backs just like ALL other armors, (but glads is best, noobs will say) ya, its good, energy is gr8, but it looks like a bra and ffs...IM A warrior and i never play Ele/Nec/Rarley Mes Rarley Monk with my secondary, 80% of my attack skills are adreniline, so..why the hell must i have Glads armor?? lol, it makes me laugh now people are saying what armor a warrior wears determines whether he is a noob ahahah..noobs, FYI Rank 7 , 3.2million xp (cos i love the pve game more than anyone) and 100,500 faction all with plate. What now let me guess ur reply to this,"yeah but with glads u would be rank 9 with 100 million xp and 500,000 faction and u would be invincible and be teh uberest">?? PRO'S KNOW ..THAT IN THE END, Armor - skill list - weapons - equiptment all vary from situation to situation, in pvp, i use plate simply cos i like the look, and b-cos, i dont need the extra energy^^ Come on..use ur brain.

Battle Torn · Feb 21, 2006, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Only nOObs call other classes nOObs as a generalization. I wont even discuss this with any nOOb as this would be a waste of breath. Only a nOOb would make a statment like this because if they werent a nOOb then they would have the intelligence to realize this is not the case and this to me is what makes them a nOOb. There are good and bad players in every class and if I have to explain this one more time to some nOOb with a superiority complex Ill scream.

People have an idea of how best to use a specific build and to them any deviation or variance from this = nOOb (because they are the only intelligence in the universe and cant comprehend that others may have good use of a better build). I have to smile sometimes at these people and feel very satisfied knowing their own ignorance and nOObish-ness is what holds them back from being really good players. Listen to others and learn, even if you have nearly 4mil exp like I have as W/Mo.

Obviously there are some 12y-olds here that clearly have intelligence way beyond their years and can see something the rest of us nOObs cant if we play as W/Mo (ILMAO)...you are indeed quite magnificent