Curse

lyra_song · Apr 21, 2006, 07:34 PM // 19:34

I compare GW to 1 player RPGs on the console systems. Games like Dragon Quest, except...you party with people.

Ensign · Apr 21, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

but have you any idea how long it would take for a new player to get a decent amount of unlocks purely through PvP?

Just to beat on this point some more - the problem with PvP unlocks is not the rate at which they come to established players (which, honestly, is fine). The problem is how they work for new players, when you have access to no skills (all locked), no items (locked), and basically have to grind it out in an arena with a premade. The premades of course are abysmal and even if you're a great player you're in for a lot of losing before you can even start to get anywhere. The people I know who have bought second accounts are *very* familiar with how bad the starting grind is.

They need to frontload faction a bit more to help new players get enough unlocks to play a character they like, so they can unlock without feeling like a gimp. Giving significant faction rewards for many Isle of the Nameless and Zaishen quests, the first time they are done on an account at least, would be awesome for new players but really wouldn't alter the system significantly for people who are already vested.

Peace,
-CxE

dreamhunk · Apr 21, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

I can understand wanting to PvE and RPG but why this game?

I play both a bit, because I want to get PvE char for PvP, but this game is the least challenging, lowest roleplaying value game of any RPG I've ever tried.

I can't fathom having trouble completing all the missions, and the kicker is that it's the exact same for the next character. The quests are about 90 percent recycled and if you don't have the skill to win without dying you can just respawn and kill one character each res until you kill them all eventually.

It seems to me that the only reason to play PvE in this game is that you like the way your character is going to look and yet the customization in this game is pretty low compared to many others.

There's no creepy places that make your skin crawl or underwater tunnels or secret passages. The places are so lacking in depth that it's more of a frustration than anything else. Dragon's Lair with it's 6 inch (15 cm) ice burms that you can't cross is a perfect example.

There's nothing in PvE that makes it even on par with so many other games out there.

I have to assume that it's the monthly fee mixed in. (AKA free play) Nothing else makes sense to me.

But that's ok, I'm not trying to be critical. I'm glad you're all playing just for the company.

I agree, that is why gw falls second to wow. The only thing gw got over wow right now. It would no mpnthly fee and graphics that is really all.

EternalTempest · Apr 21, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

I love PvE (Pugs) but random PvP is kinda fun.

But I don't have the experience to do HoH, the attitude of if you don't no, no party (I'm not at the point to learn it but when I am I will) and I'm in a very small guild so no guild vs guild (made up of friends).

I have a lot of fun chatting with friends and doing stuff PvE wisw.

Denshoni · Apr 21, 2006, 08:01 PM // 20:01

I doubt most new players that picked up Guild Wars would just overlook PVE and go straight to PVP. A-net even stressed slightly that newcomers at least play through the story once before PVPing.

I'm not saying it can't happen, but If I was a newcomer and saw everything skill and item wise locked, I'd be slightly discouraged to start PVP right off the bat and play PVE a bit first. As for people getting a new account just for PVP chars, that's all you buddy. You should know it's gonna be tough to unlock everything for that account.

Rayea · Apr 21, 2006, 09:04 PM // 21:04

why do i play one or the other?

easy....i play PvE because thats the type i prefer.
i dont play PvP (other than the snowball arena) simply because i suck monkeybits at it..plain and simple....i figure, why should i take up the server side space of a decent PvP'er with my lameass PvP'ing?
so, i get my sorry butt back out into PvE, where i can at least have something i consider fun....
and leave the spot i vacated to someone that likes to PvP.

Omega X · Apr 21, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Meh...

These PvE-PvP arguments all start and end the same way:

-PvP players look down on PvE
-PvE players sweeps PvP in the corner
-Players in the middle are always confused at the fact.

Each argument cancels out the other because neither side won't look at it from the others' position.

-PvP players: I don't understand why people PvE.
Usually those who say that are the ones who would rather win than teach others to play just as good. So novices are separated from the rest, ultimately sending them back to PvE.

-PvE players: PvP players are too childish.
Usually those who say that are the ones that look for specific builds like W/Mo and others, potentially weeding out unique players with unique builds. Novices and some experienced players are completely weeded out, making it harder for them to finish the Mission/Quest(Mesmers anyone?).

Honestly, I've done both more or less. More PvE than PvP however since most who Want/Need my help are in PvE doing PvE things. Now, if PvP players were that inviting, asking me to take on PvP showing me the specifics along the way, I would be willing to help/Fight/learn. But PvP players usually have their people already lined up, so there is no real need to ask anyone outside of the clique to take on PvP things at all. The Same goes with PvE since players there despise PUGs just as much as PvP players do. The only exception is that I know PvE pretty well and I can guide my own PUGs if necessary but others aren't so lucky or willing because of the usual social hangups.

Ultimately, if the PvE/PvP thing was to disappear, both sides should be willing to make exceptions to get others involved in both instead of just only one. Elite players on either side of a specific type of play will never concede to the other. Its the middle ground players that can make the difference not necessarily the game itself. IF the game was to simply implicitly impose PvP on PvE or viceversa, it would potentially reduce the overall game population instead of growing it. So both must remain somewhat separate yet equally together so that the majority middle ground players that enjoys both can get as much out of the game while persuading others that its fun too. So far Guild Wars is the only game that attempts to do that.

I probabaly mixed up some points in the rant but I hope some do see the point despite confusion... /rant

Cartoonhero · Apr 21, 2006, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

I agree, that is why gw falls second to wow. The only thing gw got over wow right now. It would no mpnthly fee and graphics that is really all.

this thread is about pve and pvp, not another WoW vs GW fight. anywho..

i played mostly pve for the first couple months i had the game, mostly because i did not have a large enough guild to GvG or get a good group going in HA. Now im almost exlusivley pvp, as i have all but memser fully unlocked, and i dont ever intend on making one through pve. I really enjoy both sides of the game, but i can see where the trash talk would get one down in pvp...and the neverending paradox of "you wont let me in your group because im not r3+, but i cant get more fame without a decent group." Which is why i suggest to new pvprs...dont start out in HA, it will only discourage you.

dreamhunk · Apr 21, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cartoonhero

this thread is about pve and pvp, not another WoW vs GW fight. anywho..

i played mostly pve for the first couple months i had the game, mostly because i did not have a large enough guild to GvG or get a good group going in HA. Now im almost exlusivley pvp, as i have all but memser fully unlocked, and i dont ever intend on making one through pve. I really enjoy both sides of the game, but i can see where the trash talk would get one down in pvp...and the neverending paradox of "you wont let me in your group because im not r3+, but i cant get more fame without a decent group." Which is why i suggest to new pvprs...dont start out in HA, it will only discourage you.

i am saying that gw worlds will always be second rate when it comes to rpg! Pve is so weak it isnot funny! pvp and rpg are just two different things. Almost every idea made for pve was throwen out for pvp. "balancing" they say, however it remains fact that GW rpg is weak and less people will play it. There will only be more fights between pvp players and rpg players. One will give. In the end more people will leave and gw will only be second rate game. There is a reason wow is doing a better job than guild wars as far as sales and people go. Alot of people can't even call gw a rpg.

Mister Overhill · Apr 21, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

I bought GW when it came out to have something to do with my kids and grandkids who are scattered all over. For the first time in years we are able to play a game together, since the days when we used to sit around the table and play pen and paper games.

And since they all have jobs, families, school, etc, and can't play that much, GW is the perfect fit with no monthly fee.

I've been gaming way before Pong, and play a lot of FPS and adventure games (currently into Oblivion) but PVP just leaves me cold. PVE all the way for me.

Jagflame · Apr 21, 2006, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Guild Wars is not advertised as an RPG. It is advertised as a CORPG (Competitive/Cooperative Role-Playing Game). Just wanted to clear that up.

And someone complained about PvP being competitive, which it is, I won't argue. But competition isn't always bad. In fact it can be extremely healthy. Sometimes it gets bad when people get carried away with it, but just because something is competitive isn't bad. Competition drives people to become better and improve their playing styles, which is always a good thing.

It seems to me like most people decide they don't like PvP because of poor and limited experiences in low-quality PvP areas like Random Arenas and Hero's Ascent PUG groups. Until you try playing with friendly and experienced players you cannot instantly decide you dislike PvP. That's like saying you don't like a country because you visited its ugliest city.

Eugaet · Apr 21, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

There is a reason wow is doing a better job than guild wars as far as...people go.

I don't know, I think the number of subscribers has something to do with the fact that WoW was released before GW. Sure, only by 5 months or so, but that's long enough to get a decent head start and get gamers entrenched in WoW. Most of the people I know who play WoW are really interested in GW, but their loyalty is to WoW, so they ain't budging. Although, I am dragging over 2 WoW friends next week and they're hella excited.

As far as sales, I don't know the current numbers, so that's why I edited that part out. But GW is going to get a boost next week and probably for the following few months.

Oops, back OT...I sure if I spent more time with PvP, I would come to like it...but I'm just not interested.

Denshoni · Apr 21, 2006, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

i am saying that gw worlds will always be second rate when it comes to rpg! Pve is so weak it isnot funny! pvp and rpg are just two different things. Almost every idea made for pve was throwen out for pvp. "balancing" they say, however it remains fact that GW rpg is weak and less people will play it. There will only be more fights between pvp players and rpg players. One will give. In the end more people will leave and gw will only be second rate game. There is a reason wow is doing a better job than guild wars as far as sales and people go. Alot of people can't even call gw a rpg.

PVP is a term associated with Online RPG's. So you're contradicting yourself when you say RPG's and PVP are different (in an online game respect). If it was some other game like BF2 or CS it's only natural that you're going to fight other people so I wouldn't call it PVP (despite the fact that you are fighting other players). Why would WoW have "PVP" servers if the two terms are different things? Simple, so you can abruptly ruin somone's time who is trying to get PVE things done. Nice blend there, huh? The greatest things GW has going for it (other than no monthly fee) is its balanced system, party system, and production of your group's own version of a map to prevent KSing. All which, for the most part are not really present in other Online RPG's. Albeit the slight lack of an immersive story in PVE, I don't consider it to detract from the GW experience that much at all.

Enough WoW talk, I'll be damned if I waste my life playing a game and paying for it monthly as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JagFlame

Guild Wars is not advertised as an RPG. It is advertised as a CORPG (Competitive/Cooperative Role-Playing Game). Just wanted to clear that up.

True. But Guild Wars is still a form of RPG.

Back on topic: I PVE for the most part and PVP sometimes. I consider both to be great though. I've always loved questing and I've always loved epic battles between two groups. So I like em both.

DeathDealer · Apr 21, 2006, 11:10 PM // 23:10

I have fought people in real life in two deployments to Iraq, which is why I dont want to fight people on a game. PvE is more relaxing and enjoyable to me.

Andy_M · Apr 21, 2006, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

I compare GW to 1 player RPGs on the console systems. Games like Dragon Quest, except...you party with people.

I agree up to a point. Although the main differences would be that DQ has decent voice acting, a plot, dungeons, good characters, no devourers, ect.

Last time I played pvp in GW the Helbreath and Knight Online nightmares came back....

Oh, and I despise those cards-capture games and pvp just reminds me too much of them.