Curse

Loch · Apr 26, 2006, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

The one thing that kinda irritates me about this whole thing. Warriors still dont have a way to "hold" aggro, in many mmos you'll see a system of hate, and tanks get abilities to focus the aggro on them, taunt/provoke/whatever but guildwars isnt exactly like that, MOST of the time a tank can hold aggro, but occasionally, even when everything is done right I've seen mobs spontaneously decide to break off and go for another member, and with some of the nasties in FoW and other places 1-2 hit killing party members it turns into a quick death.

How do you even know that the game was designed to play like an MMO? What makes you think that a typical aggro/hate system would work in Guild Wars?

You have a great chance of succeeding if you play the game as a proactive, aggressive team. Sure you can "tank and nuke", but is it really that efficient? In Guild Wars, a well-set-up offense works wonders to prevent your team from dying. Of course, many PuG's probably don't have the skill required to pull this off.

Read this whole thread for some enlightenment:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3015367

(btw, I don't think you need to go overboard with 5 warriors either, like suggested in the thread - a balanced team has enough tricks to play aggressively too).

Str0b0 · Apr 26, 2006, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Energizer Deth Buni

Amazing that they waited this long to nerf... maybe they wanted to make sure people wouldnt quit playing before they bought factions? They said it was because it interferes with the ritualist urn holding. Makes sense but why did they wait til today? They knew the ritualist would have to hold items along time ago. So whats nerfed next 55ing? I ll definitely quit if thats the case. Fine that they nerfed the gear/keg/book. Now warcamp is all BP groups. Lets talk about out of balance, soon everything will be BP groups and that will have to be nerfed, where does it end?

It would be stupid to nerf BP groups. They are like PvE IWAY, able to take on most things in the game. I honestly can only think of a few areas that a B/P group couldn't own and that's only because of a lack of exploitable corpses. It's just a matter of people using the skills in synergy like the devs had to figure we would. I mean 6 arrows a pop then a necro with fiends that's like doubling your rangers. Minions to tank and orders to supplement damage. I doubt B/P would get a nerf because there is nothing else to do after they nerfed Orders. I mean honestly what else could they do to the skills used to nerf the B/P group down that wouldn't make the skills entirely useless and create another unbalanced situation.

natuxatu · Apr 26, 2006, 05:11 PM // 17:11

what's BP and PuG?

Anyway I used to do five man oro farming for a looong time before anyone knew about the gear and before anyone knew about the book... at least all the groups I was in. So it really doesn't make a difference to me. I think they should have fixed it, in a way it's just an increase in enemy AI.

Evilsod · Apr 26, 2006, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Well the only thing they could do to B/P is increase the cost of Barrage.

Which would then make the skill useless, so they're back to stage 1 of screwing up good builds just because they out-do everything else. Besides B/P aren't invincible.

I really am glad they removed the frigging book/gear/keg trick though. Getting sick of using my warrior for nothing but a punching bag. Although judging from ToA bonders are now wanted to bond entire teams for the full trip! All i can say is, no f*cking way!

Kriel Drache · Apr 26, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

I think I'm about to be happier with Anet than I've ever been. No more gear trick means no more staple 5-man oro group. Other classes have the chance to farm for greens. That means that Mesmers may actually have a chance to find a group! Joy!

MSecorsky · Apr 26, 2006, 05:21 PM // 17:21

OK, no one's metioned the real reason for the fix... it wasn't because of farming or the like. It is because Ritualist ashes had the same aggro effect, so a ritualist holding ashes would suddenly become the center of attention. The aggro-fix had to be done, else ritualists (at least a major part of them) were doomed to obscurity.

Ghull Ka · Apr 26, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Thank you for removing this AI choice from the game, Arena.Net -- I'm genuinely glad that it's gone, and I believe that the PvE experience will be better for it.

I'll leave it at that.

Str0b0 · Apr 26, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Well the only thing they could do to B/P is increase the cost of Barrage.

Which would then make the skill useless, so they're back to stage 1 of screwing up good builds just because they out-do everything else. Besides B/P aren't invincible.

I really am glad they removed the frigging book/gear/keg trick though. Getting sick of using my warrior for nothing but a punching bag. Although judging from ToA bonders are now wanted to bond entire teams for the full trip! All i can say is, no f*cking way!

It wouldn't make it useless it would just make B/P ranger buy more into expertise. Expertise is the energy nerf equalizer.

KvanCetre · Apr 26, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by natuxatu

what's BP and PuG?

BP is a British energy company with headquarters in London, one of the four vertically integrated private sector oil, natural gas, and petrol (gasoline) "Super Majors" in the world, along with Royal Dutch Shell, ExxonMobil, and Total.

The Pug is a small but robust toy dog breed with a compressed, wrinkly face.

evillorderic · Apr 26, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33

MSecorsky makes a very vaild point. In fact, it kinda makes me wonder what ANET's *real* stance on gear farming was to begin with. It could be they figured they could kill two birds with one stone, fixing the ashes problem, and fixing the gear/book "bug". Or they may have been pinned against a wall and had no other choice.

A big problem I have seen with many of the replies in this thread is that people tend to think that their way is the *only* way to play GW. They assume that because they (for whatever reason) didn't like the gear trick, it was an exploit, and should be removed.

Don't get me wrong, for the most part I agree with the update. If ANET is trying to improve AI, then this change just makes sense! It doesn't make sense for all the monsters in SF to attack the tank just because he is holding a gear, same goes with the book in FoW.

This change will also raise the IQ in the warcamp considerably. The players that can play well and adapt will come out strong, while all the others who just took advantage of some build they found on the internet will be left in the dust.

Another advantage of this update will be the inflation of greens once more. With all the farmers green items really began to lack their value and rarity. For "perfect" weapons, it doesn't make sense that everyone should have them so easily. The people that have the talent to farm SF and control aggro (it's really not that hard) will be the ones that reap the benefits of the increase in cost and demand of greens.

Finally, 5 man farming as we know it is NOT dead, it just requires a higher intelligence. A group with a tank, SS, MM, healer, and bonder is still a good option, if not the best right now. (I'm not saying this will be the only way, I'm just saying that it will still be a viable option)

Frank Dudenstein · Apr 26, 2006, 05:58 PM // 17:58

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Originally Posted by Kriel Drache

That means that Mesmers may actually have a chance to find a group! Joy!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oh Kriel, you amuse me with your naive, yet somehow refreshingly sanguine view of the GuildWars community.

Mesmers are nuanced, subtle characters that require a skillfully crafted build and adept timing. And the GuildWars community is, well, uh, well.... put it this way, have you ever spent 5 minutes reading the all-chat in any given district?

Lord Iowerth · Apr 26, 2006, 06:35 PM // 18:35

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Originally Posted by pixel.summoner

if I sent a kid into a bank with a donut, that doesn't mean all the law enforcers are going to surround the kid while I make a dash for the vault.

This is, by far, the best quote in this entire thread ... I lol'ed

And yay for no more book trick! My ranger just keeps getting more popular/in demand ... and that's never a bad thing. I'm just waiting for someone to cry nerf on B/P groups: most likely some hateful gear-holding stance tank with the word "leet" in his name somewhere.

All in all: good update! I would hate for my squishy ritualist to get mobbed every time I conjure an urn/pot/vase whatever you'd like to call those things

The New Guy · Apr 26, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

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Originally Posted by zakaria

can we expect SF greens prices will rise ? it will be hard to get and less chance to drop to you since the gear trick has been removed ..

If you're talking about the Gordacs and Bortaks stuff, then no. If you played in Cantha when the demo was released, and if you explored a little you would've seen a very nice COLLECTORS item for Necro's.

One has Max Damage (req 9 Death Magic)
20% Faster Casting (death magic)
20% Faster Recharge (death magic)
and btw, this is a wand/truncheon!

I also saw a 20/20 Monk Healing Wand - waaaay better than brohns'.

So yea....

Sir Skullcrasher · Apr 26, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

sweet, no more books or gear trick! Guess my elementlist is finally needed in SF. I would think people will come up with different builds to effectively farm SF now there isn't gear, keg to hold the aggro. And we should see more 8 men team going in there now for farming purpose since 5 men team probably won't hold the aggro that well without getting slaughter.

Growling Octopus · Apr 26, 2006, 07:13 PM // 19:13

correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt this good news for sanctum cay runners?

Hippocheesebarn · Apr 26, 2006, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Honestly, this was a long time coming. The idea of all the enemies targeting the one holding whatever "important" quest item it was, was a good idea. Monsters would want to defend thier item just as much as you would want to defend the flag if you were to play some CTF. The guildwars community simply figured out how to take advantage of this, just like they have with other things ie: corner blocking. With the Dawning of factions and the ashes the ritualist would be using, it only makes sense that this change be implemented. Leaving the Guildwars community to have the gear trick whenever and where ever they wish to, is a horrendous idea. It would branch into other things, like implementing a rediculous amount of monsters with remove enchantment spells, or necros with Well of the Profane. It would not only rend the ashes useless (or attempt to combat it anyway), but it would rend every other enchantment useless due to the amount of removals that would have to be effectively put in place. This was a good move by Anet, and needed to happen in order to continue the balance that they work so hard to maintain.

Alexi Jotun · Apr 26, 2006, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Its amazing, there are still people in Deldrimor War Camp spamming "Stance Tank LFG oro."

Sir Skullcrasher · Apr 26, 2006, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexi Jotun

Its amazing, there are still people in Deldrimor War Camp spamming "Stance Tank LFG oro."

lol, they still want to gear/keg tank for oro group..

Carinae · Apr 26, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

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Originally Posted by evillorderic

This change will also raise the IQ in the warcamp considerably.

You have very high view of people.

I bet we'll see IWAY and BP groups in SF anytime now.

Eviance · Apr 26, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

I hated playing stance tank anyways - however I am highly amused at how many people want to see it nerfed.... Just wait till something you like (like 55ing) is nerfed and then see how you deal... You all say its an exploit, but its only an exploit to you if you don't like it - otherwise you whine about it... How pitiful, that so many people refuse to see both sides of the fence.

Ah and another thought... I really don't wanna hear anymore monks whine about how they got agro on them... Yes it can be controled and thats why there are at least partial stance tanks still - but crap happens and without the tricks its going to be even more unpredictable... Good Luck! ~_^