Curse

Renegade ++RIP++ · Apr 13, 2006, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Mordokai, the point he was trying to convey was that now you have quests that give you 2 free skills and which in some if not most cases are finishable in 20 minutes or less. So again he was trying to convey that if you want the same ease of unlocking (or acquisition) they will have to reward higher, much higher. And even in such a disproportional way that fow, uw or sf's quest would look like peanuts compaired to these new farmable quests. What he is stating that in stead of less grind, there will be more grind. Since in stead of the normal 2 skillpts and 2k gold rewards (that free skills would mean) you to keep the rewards in line with the high pve areas, these rewards will be around 5kxp (1/3th skillpoint) and a bit of gold (500) if it is easy completeable. Compare with the reward for the villainy of galrath...

and please loviatar, it is easy to simply state if x leave y will replace them. But it is not that simple... new people are a finite resource. Then you have the bad word of mouth advertising, meaning 1 person that is disgruntled will inform +-10 people of its disgruntlement while 1 person that is happy will only inform 2 other people from it. On top of that, you establish your biggest customerbase from the start, after that the additional customers coming in are icing on the cake not the proverbial patchwork to patch up losing customers because of misunderstandings or lacking communication or marketing. If the product would have had a lifetime of 3 - 4 years then ay losing customers is normal since there will be the next best thing, but it is only 1 year old... and then talking about it as simply as oh wel don't let the door hit you on the way out is somewhat optimistic.

Loviatar · Apr 13, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

The unlock rate is an issue, just look at the threads created WEEKLY to prove this. Your response to ignor the issue seems to be anets attitude as well, basicly like it or sod off.

Give me 1 good reason to not increase the unlock rate for PVP players.

1

Good

Reason

ok.

it is their game and their rules.

have you noticed perhaps that faction can unlock for PVE?

1k faction and i have that nice skill from the copperhammer vendor at the skill trainer early.

it would cut the PVE side very short.

reason?

account wide remember

EDIT FOR RIP

note that Anet has the traffic logs and unless they are lying the hardcore/bad word of mouth has not affected sales or usage which is increasing not decreasing.

there was also an article that tracks game sales which put GW in overall 4th place in spite of a late start and only 8 months for sales.

Mordakai · Apr 13, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade ++RIP++

Mordokai, the point he was trying to convey was that now you have quests that give you 2 free skills and which in some if not most cases are finishable in 20 minutes or less. So again he was trying to convey that if you want the same ease of unlocking (or acquisition) they will have to reward higher, much higher. And even in such a disproportional way that fow, uw or sf's quest would look like peanuts compaired to these new farmable quests. What he is stating that in stead of less grind, there will be more grind. Since in stead of the normal 2 skillpts and 2k gold rewards (that free skills would mean) you to keep the rewards in line with the high pve areas, these rewards will be around 5kxp (1/3th skillpoint) and a bit of gold (500) if it is easy completeable. Compare with the reward for the villainy of galrath...

Look at the "Kill all the _____" quests. Or the Romeo and Juliet quests. Practically free XP.

FACT: This is all pointless speculation. Since we don't know the details, it's senseless to start comparisons. We have nothing to compare to at the moment!

We can only look at this in an abstract way:

IF the Gold and Skill point awards are equal to being able to get two skills, then this is a better system. No question about it.

But, I agree, that's a lot of "ifs" in there!

Weezer_Blue · Apr 13, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

And who do think is the majority who buys and plays this game, anyway? Casual gamers, those that don't want to fork out a monthly fee, and therefore do not feel compelled to play every second of the day. Casual gamers don't require UAX.

Casual gamers need it far more than the "hardcore". I can't get a single friend (and I have some very nerdy friends) to player Guild Wars because from the trial keys I gave them, they didn't like the PvE, and the PvPers in the bunch were downright disgusted with the amount of time they had to play to make a single damn build.

Casual players are only allowed to play FOTM builds because casual gamers aren't going to grind 600+ hours for UAX like hardcore ones. This is a game flaw. An error in the code. It should be fixed as soon as possible.

We stopped asking for a UAS "button" months ago because it was clear that even though A.Net never explained why there wouldn't be one, there simply wouldn't be one ("because"). Are we to stop asking for faster unlocks? Are we to stop begging for the system to stay at the same slow snail-paced unlock speed? Why not just remove PvP characters altogether. Hell, make Hero's Ascent another PvE tombs outpost, and make the Guild Halls various dungeons. You can make the Team Arenas another trading outpost. But please, for the love of god, don't remove the Random Arenas. That's where people go when they want to feel 1337 and say they have "PvP experience" on their Wammo's.

Assuming in Prophecies you get 4 skills per skill quest, each quest in Factions needs to reward you with 60,000 Experience and 4,000 gold to even keep pace. You can say we're making unbased assumptions, but to think that we'll be raking in 4 skillpoints worth of experience from a single quest is incredibly ignorant and far too trusting in A.net to actually help the situation.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Apr 13, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Look at the "Kill all the _____" quests. Or the Romeo and Juliet quests. Practically free XP.

FACT: This is all pointless speculation. Since we don't know the details, it's senseless to start comparisons. We have nothing to compare to at the moment!

We can only look at this in an abstract way:

IF the Gold and Skill point awards are equal to being able to get two skills, then this is a better system. No question about it.

But, I agree, that's a lot of "ifs" in there!

jup, still the rewards are scaled at how much? 3k xp and a bit of faction if I remember correct. While most of the quests I did that involved skills as reward where just as easy if not easier to finish and there the reward was 30k xp and at least 2kgold(ergo 2 skills). But you still haven't gotten even 1 skill with this reward...

And yes I know that it is still all provisional, but we do have to compae with what we have at hand to make sure that anet understands the debacle or the can of worms they might be opening up. Although I still odn't understand why they need money or skillpoints as a reward, they could just let them pick a skill from a group of options if they finished a quest. And they wouldn't end up with that can of wurms.

Mordakai · Apr 13, 2006, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade ++RIP++

jup, still the rewards are scaled at how much? 3k xp and a bit of faction if I remember correct. While most of the quests I did that involved skills as reward where just as easy if not easier to finish and there the reward was 30k xp and at least 2kgold(ergo 2 skills). But you still haven't gotten even 1 skill with this reward...

I thought it was 7,500 xp (2,500 for each, but you can only do one of the "Kill all ___" quests). Could be wrong, though.

If they give 2k gold and 2 skill points (not XP), then you've got enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade ++RIP++

Although I still odn't understand why they need money or skillpoints as a reward, they could just let them pick a skill from a group of options if they finished a quest. And they wouldn't end up with that can of wurms.

Well, that's a good point. All I can say is you could buy other things than skills with the gold...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

Casual gamers need it far more than the "hardcore". I can't get a single friend (and I have some very nerdy friends) to player Guild Wars because from the trial keys I gave them, they didn't like the PvE, and the PvPers in the bunch were downright disgusted with the amount of time they had to play to make a single damn build.

Wow, your friends are pretty sophisticated to already know what skills they needed to make a "single build" without using the skills provided in the FPE. I made some nice builds without having to buy skills, but maybe I'm just a noob.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

Assuming in Prophecies you get 4 skills per skill quest, each quest in Factions needs to reward you with 60,000 Experience and 4,000 gold to even keep pace. You can say we're making unbased assumptions, but to think that we'll be raking in 4 skillpoints worth of experience from a single quest is incredibly ignorant and far too trusting in A.net to actually help the situation.

Thankfully, Anet doesn't have to give out 60k XP. They just need to give out skill points. And most quests in prophecy gave you 2 skills, not 4. And how many times were you happy with the skills you got?

Basically, we have more choices now. Hell, you don't even have to buy skills if you don't want, you can use the extra gold to buy something else you want more.

More options and choices is BETTER, not worse.

Now, I could be totally wrong, and this could be the worse idea ever. If it turns out that way, believe me, I'll join you guys in signing a petition.

MasterDinadan · Apr 13, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Hmm.. I don't think it's a problem.
I like to think of PVE and PVP as completely seperate entities. Sure, you can PVP with your RP character, but a lot of people don't, because you can easily make a PVP character with some great items and any of the skills you could possibly want to PVP.
Since PVP skills are so easy to acquire with Balthazar faction, the only thing to look at is how it affects PVE.

All it really does it makes it more difficult to acquire lots of skills in PVE. This is a good thing in my opinion. I think "maxing" your character in PVE SHOULD take a considerable amount of time and effort. They shouldn't just let you get everything easily. Not having every skill you want because of a lack of money makes PVE more difficult, but I don't think that makes it less interesting.
PVP remains balanced and PVE becomes more difficult... I can't say that would disappoint me.

ducktape · Apr 13, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade ++RIP++

And yes I know that it is still all provisional, but we do have to compae with what we have at hand to make sure that anet understands the debacle or the can of worms they might be opening up. Although I still odn't understand why they need money or skillpoints as a reward, they could just let them pick a skill from a group of options if they finished a quest. And they wouldn't end up with that can of wurms.

That would be nice, perhaps have one skill from each line [Sword, Hammer, Axe, Tactics; Air, Earth, Fire, Water; Blood, Curses, Death, etc] as a reward for each quest, and let us choose which skill we want. So that way if you are E/Mo and you finish a quest, it says "Choose your Skill reward" and you can choose one Air, Earth, Fire or Water skill; and then you can choose one Healing, Protecting, Smiting, or Divine Favor skill. Then you just picked up a skill from each of your 2 professions and you got to choose which attribute you wanted to grab more skills for. No skill points wasted, no money lost. And if you find your new skill sucks and you wish you had chosen a different one, you can still buy something with a precious skill point and gold, or find the next quest that gives skill rewards and pick a better skill when you finish it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

Assuming in Prophecies you get 4 skills per skill quest, each quest in Factions needs to reward you with 60,000 Experience and 4,000 gold to even keep pace. You can say we're making unbased assumptions, but to think that we'll be raking in 4 skillpoints worth of experience from a single quest is incredibly ignorant and far too trusting in A.net to actually help the situation.

It does sound like they are not likely to do that, but then again, if they do anything other than that it is adding grind to the game. Let's hope they give the amount of gold and EXP (EDIT: make that gold and skill points) we would need to purchase the skills we would normally have gotten for free.

Mordakai · Apr 13, 2006, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Guys, they don't need to give XP at all! Just skill points directly.

It's not like that's without precedence...

ducktape · Apr 13, 2006, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Actually, you're right, it would be better to hand out skill points and gold than enough XP to level & gain a point. Otherwise the path to level 20 would be super-short.

aron searle · Apr 13, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

ok.

it is their game and their rules.

have you noticed perhaps that faction can unlock for PVE?

1k faction and i have that nice skill from the copperhammer vendor at the skill trainer early.

it would cut the PVE side very short.

reason?

account wide remember

EDIT FOR RIP

note that Anet has the traffic logs and unless they are lying the hardcore/bad word of mouth has not affected sales or usage which is increasing not decreasing.

there was also an article that tracks game sales which put GW in overall 4th place in spite of a late start and only 8 months for sales.

And you think thats a GOOD reason to not speed up unlocks for PVP people?

I’ve yet to see a good reason why PVP toons can not unlock faster and for PVE to remain the same, the above is so easily overcome its ridiculous.

Loviatar · Apr 13, 2006, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

And you think thats a GOOD reason to not speed up unlocks for PVP people?

I’ve yet to see a good reason why PVP toons can not unlock faster and for PVE to remain the same, the above is so easily overcome its ridiculous.

simplest answer

it is their game and they (Anet/NCsoft) are aiming for a specific target market.

the further off you are from dead center of that target the less the game will appeal to you.

they have already shaken out the hardest hardcore

UAS/LEVEL GRINDMONKEYS/UBER STAT ITEM FARMERS/SUBCLASSES THERE OF

the shakeout continues but more keep coming in as they siscover this is my game.

also count on this

THERE WILL BE ADJUSTMENTS AFTER RELEASE.

aron searle · Apr 14, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

simplest answer

it is their game and they (Anet/NCsoft) are aiming for a specific target market.

Precisely

Go get your box, look at what they advertise, then look at the skill grind for pvp.

(fyi, I am a pve player, but I can see the huge barrier skill unlocking creates in pvp for variety and experimentation, and I see no need for it).

Karmakin · Apr 14, 2006, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Handing out skill points for quests+some gold to help pay for buying the skills is a much better system than the GW:P system, at least IMO.

The GW:P system funnelled PvE characters into certain builds early on into the game. It wasn't until Lion's Arch that your skill selection really started to have any variety.

What they're trying to do is encourage more skill variety early in the game. A combination of a new skill earning system and opening up previously unlocked skills at the vendor should help greatly with this.

Karmakin · Apr 14, 2006, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

Precisely

Go get your box, look at what they advertise, then look at the skill grind for pvp.

(fyi, I am a pve player, but I can see the huge barrier skill unlocking creates in pvp for variety and experimentation, and I see no need for it).

I'm a PvP player, who doens't have "everything" unlocked, and it's not so much a problem to be honest.

As long as I have the faction to unlock things when I need them, I for all intensive purposes have UAX. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I blew 7k faction the other night on a build unlocking runes and skills. But I have them now. They're mine. Bwahahahahaha.

One thing that I hope changes between FPE and release, is that I think we should get some Balth's Faction for 12v12 play. It IS a PvP format afterall. Same rate as other formats. 20 faction per initial kill. Maybe 100 or so for team win.

Weezer_Blue · Apr 14, 2006, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Wow, your friends are pretty sophisticated to already know what skills they needed to make a "single build" without using the skills provided in the FPE. I made some nice builds without having to buy skills, but maybe I'm just a noob.

I don't tend to introduce my friends to a game and then ditch them. I asked them what sort of thing they wanted to play and then helped them make a build. It costs 26,500 Faction to make a build: Superior, Major, Minor, 4 Weapon Mods, 7 Normal Skills, 1 Elite Skill, Superior Vigor, and possibly a Superior Absorbtion. Anything less means you're gimped, and to competitive gamers accustomed to FPS's and RTS's and any genre except the RPG, this is really annoying. If it takes a newbie 20 minutes to get that amount of faction from the Random Arenas (they only place someone without skills can find a "group"), then it takes approx. 10 hours to make a single build that won't be sub-par and at a dissadvantage...
... The 2 week preview key cuts off at 10 hours.

Quote:

Thankfully, Anet doesn't have to give out 60k XP. They just need to give out skill points. And most quests in prophecy gave you 2 skills, not 4. And how many times were you happy with the skills you got?

Basically, we have more choices now. Hell, you don't even have to buy skills if you don't want, you can use the extra gold to buy something else you want more.

More options and choices is BETTER, not worse.

Now, I could be totally wrong, and this could be the worse idea ever. If it turns out that way, believe me, I'll join you guys in signing a petition.

A lot of quests give you 2, or even 3 quests for each (primary + secondary) profession. But even with your example of 2 skills per quest, that still amounts to 30,000 experience and 2k faction. A.net's going to do that? Doubtful.

... And online petitions are worthless.

Random Scrubinator · Apr 14, 2006, 06:01 AM // 06:01

This was mentioned earlier, but ignored
In GW:P, there were no more (or an insignificant amount) of skill reward quests after ascention. Also, I can only remember 3 storyline relevant quests offered after ascention: the 15 attribute one, the one to ice caves, and the one to ring of fire, and the latter two offered a measly amount of xp.
From the factions preview, an explorable area would have more quests (with better rewards per quest) than all the level 20 storyline content in the game combined. Without repeating any quests, I managed to get a very satisfactory amount of skill points in a weekend, enough to try out many new skills I wanted to try. The nonrepeatable quests used the explorable areas very efficiently, for the most part requiring you to visit areas that would normally go unoticed by most players (think about how little incentive people have in exploring the southern shiverpeaks).
Even if they lower the experience rewards a bit, I believe that this change isn't going to significantly increase the amount of grind involved in this game

Rey Lentless · Apr 14, 2006, 07:18 AM // 07:18

95% of the posts in here wouldn't need to exist if people just read the thread. Half of Mordakai's posts are just Gaile's post with highlighted areas to answer/refute other peoples' posts. If you're taking the time to post, then take the time to read. Of course, they won't read this either :P

Quote:

And you think thats a GOOD reason to not speed up unlocks for PVP people?

I’ve yet to see a good reason why PVP toons can not unlock faster and for PVE to remain the same, the above is so easily overcome its ridiculous.

It's already very fast. My only problem with the rate is the fact that faction is capped. I would tolerate that better if skill points had a cap too. Since they don't, I'll have 350 skill pts ready to use when factions comes out.. but I would have much preferred to have a million faction saved up.

The good reason you've been asking for is pretty simple. If Anet plans on releasing a game every 6 months, they want people to have a reason to play for roughly that amount of time. Continuing to unlock new content is something that can keep people interested. That doesn't mean it takes 6 months to unlock everything through pvp, but they want people to play for a decent amount of time to remain interested in the next game. If you unlocked everything in a week.. you might stop playing earlier and forget about the game. While Anet doesn't want you to grind at a pay-per-month snail pace, they do want you to have a reason to play for a decent amount of time.

Quote:

What a load of crap. I'm sorry, your perspective (or anyone elses, for that matter) does NOT count more.

And who do think is the majority who buys and plays this game, anyway? Casual gamers, those that don't want to fork out a monthly fee, and therefore do not feel compelled to play every second of the day. Casual gamers don't require UAX.

Exactly. I think pvpers are under the impression they're the majority because it's a more vocal group. The people are generally more educated about the game and much more likely to post on forums and the like. However, we're certainly the minority and while I think we're catered to pretty well, we have to remember that. Just because we play and post more, doesn't mean we're putting more money into their pockets and that's the bottom line, literally and figuratively.

And on the casual gamers not needing UAX, I'll reiterate that I agree here. I think the unlock rate is very generous and any regular pvper will have no problem unlocking what's needed. Any avid pve'er interested in unlocking a lot can do that as well. Farming is available if you're interested, and it's an extremely fast way to unlock content in this game. I understand completely people not wanting to do it, but I don't understand people thinking that they should still have everything unlocked just by playing through the game once. There has to be a middle ground where things are unlocked quick enough for casual players to still get a decent amount, and unlocked slow enough so that hardcore players aren't bored out of their mind too quickly. I think this happy medium is reached pretty well, and I fully expect factions to be even better in this way. Again, the only thing I think is out of wack is the capped faction w/o capped skill pts.

Quote:

Casual gamers need it far more than the "hardcore". I can't get a single friend (and I have some very nerdy friends) to player Guild Wars because from the trial keys I gave them, they didn't like the PvE, and the PvPers in the bunch were downright disgusted with the amount of time they had to play to make a single damn build.

This is an mmorpg. GW unlock rate is much faster than you'd find in say WOW or COH or whatever. If your friends think the grind is horrible in this game, then I'd say the whole genre wouldn't appeal to them. It's certainly not a design flaw however, and there does have to be a small grind factor involved for the reasons previously mentioned.

Quote:

With a 10K faction pool ANet didn't even allow us to prepare for factions release. If I had the option to accumulate about 50K faction be4 the game comes out, I would've felt more prepared.

Yah, that's the reason I started some light farming to have a pve character ready to go through and unlock a crap load of content. While I think the rate of unlocking things through pvp is high (maybe even too high), the fact that we can't prepare for a next chapter the way a pve character can bothers me. I farmed for a few weeks and I have enough gold/skill points to unlock everything in factions. I would have preferred to do that with faction, and I would have had enough from the faction I already earned (if it wasn't capped). I would think anet would prefer us to 'prepare' by doing something more social like pvp, than farm by ourselves. What's more likely to keep us playing? I wish someone from anet would comment on that choice, it doesn't seem to benefit their business model at all.

Quote:

Why are these people not being given a straight answere as to what measures will be taken to alliviate the HUGE amount of time to unlock all skills?

FACT = People will not buy guild wars if these concerns are not addressed first

FACT = the only thing you can argue about that fact is weather it will be 1 person or 1 million people.

This genre probably isn't for you. Not every game appeals to everyone. I agree with you though, and I hope you're right. I hope one person doesn't buy factions.. and I hope they don't post here any more either.

Quote:

PvP players have been talking about this crippled faction system for ages

Unless there's an UAS button, SOME people will think the faction is too slow regardless of what it is. You can't make everyone happy.. but don't confuse that with a problem.

Quote:

PvP players who did the preview event will have a head start on anyone - cause the skills they unlocked are still unlocked for them... the PvE folks will need to get those added to their characters from scratch.

Well, there wasn't really a way around that. The preview event involved level 20 players, so you couldn't let those characters remain when the game was released. Pvpers were able to unload their 10K, and spend whatever they earned, but they'll still start out with a max pool of 10k. A pve character can start out with all the gold/skill pts they want and unlock a lot more content quicker.

Quote:

Am I wrong here, or does this mean that the PvE element of GW:F is being shrunk to push people through ascension to level 20 and PvP? Or is it simply that there is a higher level 20 content for PvE people (hopefully without any need to PvP at all)? I always thought that getting there was part of the fun and reaching level 20 was an achievement.

I'm pretty sure this is a main philosophy that anet has about their game. They don't want the game to be focused on reaching the max level, and want more content to take place after you're already level 20. If you have more fun on the way up to your max level, again.. this might not be the game for you. I don't think they're looking to have less pve, just less content that involves pre-ascension/level 20 characters.

Thallandor · Apr 14, 2006, 07:47 AM // 07:47

I think theres an old saying in the gaming industry which goes like this:

"Why fix something that isnt broken?"

PvPers: Its true in a way early PvP metagame evolved around the only few skills that they only unlocked in early PvE gameplay, but keep in mind that with 3 PvE toons of all different profession you will be able to unlock all the skills that are quest obtainable and can focus on unlocking those that cost gold in PvE through PvP faction point. Doing so will even allow you to have a free slot for PvP giving you the best of both worlds. This is my personal perpective as the ideal gameplay option, you are free to disagree. If GW:F follow the same system as GW:P in skills aqquistion, early PvP metagame maybe limited somewhat for a week or so for new players but overall it will be offset by ease of getting skills directly from non time consuming skill quest and allow players to enjoy some of the PvE content in the meanwhile before devoting themselves to the rest of their game life to playing a few maps in PvP.

PvErs: My main beef with the proposed system from Gaile's post would be:

1) level progression would be much quicker to balance players who link both chapters and have high level characters in the start of GW:F. This is understandable but there exist players who like to develop their characters slowly watching them grow and enjoy the story in the PvE (i am assume it will be better then GW:P this time).

2) By Linking Factions, Gaile and others had boasted that being able to have our ascended characters from different lands travelling to the other would provide overall more content to enjoy. However should the skill quests for either chapters be non accessible to the other chapters form different lands (apart from the attribute point quest) then the only option for players to aquire those skills would be to buy them from the skill trader.

3) The main topic of debate: Skill. When skills are unlocked for PvP it is logically present for all future use in PvP. However in PvE logically even if you unlocked a skill before, should you like to have it again on a different character you will need to buy it if it is non skill quest obtainable. The current model is of capping skill or cap sig at 1k is an "improvement" over the last system where cost of skills would still continue to increase in price over the 1k limit should you like to have more skills for that single character from different professions. Even at the 1k limit, current players are still having problems finding skill points or gold they need to get skills they require to adpat to certain PvE build for higher end levels or missions. The problem will become worse should those characters who had hit the 1k skill buying limit want to get Factions skills but am forced only to buy them. Same for GWF to GWP.

4) Quest rewards. Despite the assurance that was given that skill points will be gained much faster and there will be gold rewards to offset the cost of buying skills. Realistically comparing to the current system of skill aqusition via non time consuming skill quest by normal PvE play no amount of realistic award in experience point or gold will come close to replacing the current system in place.

My plea as a player of the game is please dont try to fix something that isnt broken (at least not too badly) but add the good stuff only.

peace

Edit for spelling

Rhedd · Apr 14, 2006, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

I don't tend to introduce my friends to a game and then ditch them. I asked them what sort of thing they wanted to play and then helped them make a build. It costs 26,500 Faction to make a build: Superior, Major, Minor, 4 Weapon Mods, 7 Normal Skills, 1 Elite Skill, Superior Vigor, and possibly a Superior Absorbtion. Anything less means you're gimped, and to competitive gamers accustomed to FPS's and RTS's and any genre except the RPG, this is really annoying. If it takes a newbie 20 minutes to get that amount of faction from the Random Arenas (they only place someone without skills can find a "group"), then it takes approx. 10 hours to make a single build that won't be sub-par and at a dissadvantage...
... The 2 week preview key cuts off at 10 hours.

A lot of quests give you 2, or even 3 quests for each (primary + secondary) profession. But even with your example of 2 skills per quest, that still amounts to 30,000 experience and 2k faction. A.net's going to do that? Doubtful.

... And online petitions are worthless.

Wow. I don't usually make things personal in my posts, but Weezer_Blue, why in the name of Heaven are you STILL around? I don't think I have ever seen you say one, single positive thing about this game. I can only assume that you enjoy bitching on a forum far more than playing Guild Wars, but sadly, that means we have to listen to you.

I'm not saying you don't have a right to an opinion. You do. I'm just worried about your personal happiness. All this complaining about GW can't be good for your heart, man!

/personal attack

Now, let's discuss your predictions of doom...

Firstly, the ONLY skill quests in Prophesies that gives more than ONE skill for a class are pre-Searing quests, made to set your character up with a minimal handful of skills. These give out more than one skill, but only for ONE class, not both the primary and secondary.

To reiterate: There are NO skill quests in Prophesies that hand out more than one primary and one secondary skill for a total of two skills.

Now that we've got that straight, to allow the unlocking of two skills, why do they have to give you 30k XP AND 2k faction? Why?

How about, and this may seem silly, they do what everyone's been saying, and give you 2 skill points? Then, they give you an amount of gold that should buy you those skills AT THE POINT YOU'RE AT. It doesn't have to be 2k gold for your first two skills, does it? The gold increases as you get further in the game.

I'm not even going to mention how sick I get of hearing certain people say you need EVERY skill to be marginally competitive in PvP. Man, what crap. I guess it gives you something to tell yourself when you get whipped. "I would'a won if I'd had those last two Blood Magic spells... even though I'm a R/Mo..."