Curse

Studio Ghibli · Mar 27, 2006, 11:39 AM // 11:39

?

Where'd you hear something like that?

I haven't heard anything remotely close to that for 12v12.

Zaxan Razor · Mar 27, 2006, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Well why else would it be called an ALLIANCE battle?

Also its been in a few of the Jeff Strain interviews.

Studio Ghibli · Mar 27, 2006, 11:56 AM // 11:56

.. 'cause of the Luxon/Kurzick alliances, and how people of those alliances are coming together to fight against their enemy? One of the more awkward things I've encountered so far is the repeated use of the word alliance. There's alliance points, and then there's alliance faction points--and then there's the Luxon/Kurzick alliances, and then the guild alliances.

Could you please cite these interviews? I'm not doubting that they exist. I just have no idea where to find them.

Albas · Mar 27, 2006, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaxan Razor

Uhm, most of you guys seem to be forgetting that it will not be completely random at release.

In this event, you couldn't make alliances, instead your guild was treated as an alliance of 1.

When factions is released and you doa faction battle, you will be teamed with players from your own alliance, i.e. People that you KNOW and more than likely have played with before.

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

please keep it random. please please please!

Snowman · Mar 27, 2006, 11:58 AM // 11:58

[not signed]

I think that the votes have been counted and the results are in!

Everyone likes the random!

It really does open up the game play to anyone and means that battles are less predictable and more fun.

However I would like to try these maps in a GvG style or organised, not to replace the current system but as-well-as.

Cunning · Mar 27, 2006, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

However I would like to try these maps in a GvG style or organised, not to replace the current system but as-well-as.

I think that's the best solution, as I want both options.

Studio Ghibli · Mar 27, 2006, 01:41 PM // 13:41

I want to restate this.

I don't have to conform to some cookie-cutter build if I want to 12v12 in Alliance. I can bring whatever I want and hope for the best--and I'll still have a chance at victory.

No one telling me what to bring. No one demanding I be something. No one INSTANTLY KICKING ME BECAUSE I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.

And all of the fun of Unreal Tournament.. except no vehicles. ;P

Wubberful. :O

- edit -

"Don't forget, in the real thing, alliance battles will be played with people from your own alliance, not people from ppossible 12 different alliances as it is now."

Where are people hearing this?

I want 12v12 to stay random.

Is this not going to be the case?

beanerman_99 · Mar 27, 2006, 02:19 PM // 14:19

/not signed.

As a very causall PvPer I really like the Random teams. I agree with most that I don't like to spam LFG forever just to play a round. Developers always said they wanted their game to be accesible to many and players wouldn't have to invest months of time to have fun. I vote for keeping it random and not letting the "leet" r3+ people ruin it for the rest of us.

SpeedyKQ · Mar 27, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

/not signed

I thought I was a strict PVE only-player until I tried the alliance battles. They were kind of fun. I'm looking forward to playing them some more, improving my game a bit.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Mar 27, 2006, 03:16 PM // 15:16

12 vs 12 Alliance Battles should be readily available to the general public, like how the current Random Arenas is.

Deny the general public that chance, and a lot people is going to be very unhappy.

Zelnox · Mar 27, 2006, 03:30 PM // 15:30

At first, I did not like that it was 3 random groups for 4, but it saves time in matchmaking. There were times where I would get dozens of "no opposing party found, resetting timer" in a row. It takes a while getting 8 people we want to play with for HA already. Imagine 12. When players take it a bit more seriously, the quality will improve too.

I used to play Shattered Galaxy where battles would be 16vs16 and random people would just join in to defend territories. Back when I played, there was no voice communication too and players worked together. It helps when there are several guildies too.

Alliance Battles need a penalty for leaving to distinguish it from Arena. In Shattered Galaxy, there were players who would leave when a lost was imminent in order to not have it counted in their record. Eventually, an honour system was implemented where leaving would deduct points from it. Not sure how it is now.

For Alliance Battles, we can have leavers be prevented from joining another one for maybe 10 mins. Or have faction points deduction.

Pandora's box · Mar 27, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zelnox

Alliance Battles need a penalty for leaving to distinguish it from Arena. In Shattered Galaxy, there were players who would leave when a lost was imminent in order to not have it counted in their record. Eventually, an honour system was implemented where leaving would deduct points from it. Not sure how it is now.

For Alliance Battles, we can have leavers be prevented from joining another one for maybe 10 mins. Or have faction points deduction.

Leavers should always get a loss on their record, no matter if leaving was caused by accident (lag) or not. This is widely accepted in Starcraft, BW and WC. The first minute you can leave without penalty, and the game wont count. After that its win or loose.

As for random parties: I suggest to create a smaller 4 vs 4 training area where everyone can train this kind of gameplay, eventually with/against henchies. Winning or losing won't caunt for anything since its only to practice. Before starting a 12 vs 12 game there should be a confirmation screen where new players get the advice to play some training matches first.

With these add-ons 12 vs 12 matches should stay random.

Burakus Lightwing · Mar 27, 2006, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joh

/not signed

I don't want to see another HA get born. "LFP for IWAY/ViM/Balanced/whatever, r3+!!!". I believe this is random so people will have an equal chance. Since it's random, you could end up in a horrible group, but you could also end up in a terrific group while the others get a horrible one. This is the most fair way to do it and also, imagine Sir Coversman deciding to leave HA and go for the competive arenas instead, all fighting for one side. And incidently, a couple other high-end PvP guilds pick the same side. They would easily conquer the map.

/also not signed.

I can see the problems with random. I was in too many matches that had problems.
At the same time I don't want to see people spamming looking for rank6+ blah blah blah, super spike or super iway teams.
I like the random effect for that reason alone.

I wouldn't mind seeing the possibility of expanding your party size to 6 though. I went in with guildies and we maxed at 4. I think if you can have the opportunity to get two six-man teams in there it greatly increases your chance of success. I know that it is still random and you could be on a 6-man team paired with 6 random players but at least half of the group of 12 'should be organized'.

My two biggest issues in the 12vs12(which I really enjoyed) are:
1. leavers/quitters - this severely crippled your teams chances.
2. Opposite faction sacrificers. - A few times I had people on my yelling for (insert opposite teams faction) and then they proceeded to sac themselves to the point where I started one match down almost 40 points before it started. That is a major problem. I hate this in RA 4 vs 4. But now investing the time and effort of 11 other players and ruining their experience because you want to be an a$$. I have a real problem with that.

Yukito Kunisaki · Mar 27, 2006, 08:29 PM // 20:29

/spits on petition...

Me, my wife, and 2 other random people making our 'pack of four' was perfectly fine with 8 other random people...

We 4 knew who to follow [me ^_^] and I moved from point to point. It was tough since it was a 2 assassin, warrior, monk group, but we did our thing, the other 8 seemed to just want to kill and not camp spots [which is what you should be doing] but that's their thing.

A group of four that keeps their heads on straight is just as dangerous as whatever else you can come across.

That and working with total chaos in strangers is fun too!

yesitsrob · Mar 27, 2006, 08:32 PM // 20:32

I do not think spiking in 12v12 would be overpowered - mainly because it would just be overkill anyway and not necesarry, and also because you get more points from map control - splitting against the spikes would be so easy

as it is, there's so much room for griefing - we were luxons, and some kurzik guys just joined us and sacced themselves to death - which is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing ridiculous

SilentAssassin · Mar 27, 2006, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burakus Lightwing

My two biggest issues in the 12vs12(which I really enjoyed) are:
1. leavers/quitters - this severely crippled your teams chances.
2. Opposite faction sacrificers. - A few times I had people on my yelling for (insert opposite teams faction) and then they proceeded to sac themselves to the point where I started one match down almost 40 points before it started. That is a major problem. I hate this in RA 4 vs 4. But now investing the time and effort of 11 other players and ruining their experience because you want to be an a$$. I have a real problem with that.

I totally agree, this is something A.net should take care of that things like this don't happen.

William the Silent · Mar 27, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35

/not signed.

To me this is a refreshing new method of PvP. It's a wonderful combination of the Random Arena and Team Arena party build but also offers a great way for players to escape the stale builds of HA while still being able to experience PvP on a much larger scale than offered in the basic arenas.

While the prospect of entering these alliance battles with 3 different teams of 4 under the same alliance incites a great deal of excitement in me, I under no condition want such a scenario to be an ultimate replacement to how the alliance battles are structured as of now. Instead, if the 3x4 alliance teams were to become a possibility, I would much rather have that be something that coexists with the current structure instead of something that replaces it.

Though the current alliance battle structure has obviously not been perfected as of yet, I really think it's a neat idea that has a ton of potential.

Crom the Conqueror · Mar 27, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Yes I approve of this new arena.

This way we can eliminate the need to be in a good guild, and most of all the need to have HIGH RANK!!!

I have mostly avoided HOH because I am not in a guild and I didnt play HoH that often. I am a very capable pvper for sure, I have over 20,000 faction points. But I just can not get into HoH without screaming "LFG" for two hours straight.

With this new arena, all of us, HoH lovers or not will all have the chance to have fun.

=HT=Ingram · Mar 27, 2006, 10:16 PM // 22:16

You can make a core party to play with of 4, that's equivilient to a squad in a army of 12. so make your team pick a direction either with our without the rest, and go. the best 12 party teams were 3 parties of 4 heading in all directions and then meeting together as a whole once all the points were secured...

Basically when this was done properly, the other team was dominated down to being base locked... the only thing I didn't like was the overpowered base defense units that made it impossible to overwhelm the other team. And the fact that when the -999 base attack hit one of us it was a kill for THEM. when all they are doing is hiding in their base...

There is an exploit in the 12vs12 that can be done... I will not get into it. But it is something I think they will likely fix. however... what you are talking about with the randomness of the 12v12 being a bad thing. well I can't agree with that... It allows for a good mix of players. something that has been long missing for a while in GW. No more do you have these jerks that will not take someone for not having fissure armor or for not having rank whatever... its a fair random mix. allowing you to play with 3 people for sure and potentially more if put together on the same random party... But the entire 12 party plan should always be a random mix. and that is a good thing... the definition of an ALLIANCE battle if you will.

since I was using a Pure Beta account for the event. (I didnt want to give up a slot from my main account) I played as a monk/Rit in Factions with a good bit of success. Even without a heal party. Its not easy by any means, but if you know what your doing you can secure up a win pretty easy by watching out for your squad first and team 2nd...
your party of 4 is your priority. If anything, I wish they would make a sepration line to make that easier to see... but its not really nessesary... Then when your entinre party regroups someplace you refocus on the entire party again... If you see allies falling obviously your squad goes to help and problem solved... if they don't. well thats not a good squad now is it???

A good way to look at it for training is like so.
the top 4 go left
the middle 4 go center
the bottom 4 go right.

each team hits 2 points and meet in center.

then split in 1/2 total and hit the rest of the points and push the opposing party back into their base.
top 6 left.
bottom 6 right.

If their is only one monk. well thats a problem, I was in several times...
But with some core rules to follow this is a really easy PvP challenge to master...

I stuck to my rules of engagement. if I was with a squad I conentrated on them. and redirected if their position was secure... I was seldom alone... But sometimes I had to be to get to where needed...

Sacrifice is needed at times for betterment of the party... sometimes its better to die and res then to run and not be in position to heal elsewhere...

heavy metal rules · Mar 27, 2006, 11:36 PM // 23:36

i look at as whatever side your on, just destroying the other faction, to gain some control. so whatever side im on, i just care about destroying the other faction. so they don't get any type of control but that is just me.