Curse

Trin Storm · May 04, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by felinette

Trin, I'd rather they go completely PvP in chapter 3 than say, "Don't worry, we're taking care of you PvE players," and then release chapter 3 with crap PvE that's only there in the hope that PvE players will be foolish enough to hand over another $50. There are plenty of other games to spend that $50 on...and there's always Prophecies...

True - very true.

I read:

Quote:

Can't you appreciate the work they've done, or go to another PvE specific game?

And my response - I greatly appricated what they did in prophecies. Problem is the seem to have undone a lot of what I appricated with the factions release. Many of the things that drew me to this game - seem to be scraped in some strange attempt by Anet to glom everyone into mega guild alliances and make PvP their primary focus of play. Basically they took a product I loved and made it less fun in a lot of aspects. Cutting of parts of the PvE game to only those that are A) hard core faction farmers and B) Have the most peopel they can band together is not my idea of fun.

Sciros Darkblade · May 04, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Well, there are a couple of ways in which this will play out, but one is probably worth considering. The controlling alliance will have the opportunity to farm Urgoz and Deep and make tons of money on items. However, it's hard work. Running those missions will take about 3 hours or so, and the bosses are nasty business. Anyway, what is likely to happen is a number of members of the top alliance will realize they can make money easier and with far less trouble just charging for access to these elite areas. Eventually the price for admission will converge, likely to something that will make these areas the equivalent of FoW or UW considering those cost 1 plat to enter as well.

It will take a bit of time for this, but I think it can happen.

Yes, I find it hard to come up with a satisfactory answer when someone asks why is it that out of 15 missions in Factions, 2 are technically accessible to *such* a low percentage of players. But, depending on how things turn out in the coming weeks, it might not be quite as bad a situation as it seems. If nothing else works, RP your way about it. In the world of Cantha, there is a very powerful alliance that controls access to the best areas. What would your character do about it, if anything? And if you feel he can't do anything, well, that's Canthan life ^_^ come to grips with it and move on. Do what you can.

felinette · May 04, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

why am i not allowed into hall of heros. i have paid for it yet i dont have time to get there so why not let me into it.

I'm not up on PvP, so I don't know what the requirement is to get into the Hall of Heroes. But you're missing the point. I don't expect to be able to access the last mission in the game before doing the others because I don't have time to do the others. That would be unreasonable. But if I do all of the others and reach the area with the last mission of the game, then I should be allowed to do the last mission. If I reach an area with an elite mission, I should be allowed to do the mission. Asking me to do other things, like farm, join a certain guild, kiss someone's ass, etc., don't have anything to do with skill. Make it difficult to get to the elite mission areas so that skill is key--once there, the area is on your map and you can do it anytime.

unienaule · May 04, 2006, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

why am i not allowed into hall of heros. i have paid for it yet i dont have time to get there so why not let me into it.

I've halls skipped on ACCIDENT before. Even without that, if you get a team with SKILL, you can get there in like, say, a few hours at MOST. There is no way in hell that I could find seven other skilled people and get access to elite missions in a couple hours.

Just let me repeat myself again.

Someone please point out to me the part where Anet said they were going to introduce forced grind for access to content.

The Herbalizer · May 04, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by felinette

I'm not up on PvP, so I don't know what the requirement is to get into the Hall of Heroes. But you're missing the point. I don't expect to be able to access the last mission in the game before doing the others because I don't have time to do the others. That would be unreasonable. But if I do all of the others and reach the area with the last mission of the game, then I should be allowed to do the last mission. If I reach an area with an elite mission, I should be allowed to do the mission. Asking me to do other things, like farm, join a certain guild, kiss someone's ass, etc., don't have anything to do with skill. Make it difficult to get to the elite mission areas so that skill is key--once there, the area is on your map and you can do it anytime.

you all dont understand. you all argue that you have paid for the elite area which automaically qulaifies you for access to it. i could argue i have paid for hoh and i should be allowed there even if i do not try. in order to reach the elite mission area you actually have to try O.o same with hoh to reach it and win you have to actually try and work hard. the pvpers get there special capes, hoh chests etc as rewards for doing well. the pve'ers get the elite mission areas as a reward for hard work.

you say you dont want to work hard or put effort into getting to the area then why do you deserve it? because you paid for it? paying for something does not mean you have special rights to be able to access anything you want. maybe we should all start demanding fow armor for eveyone as grinding for it is soooo wrong.

vtrajan · May 04, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

How does anything they do qualify as abuse? The only reason they could make money would be that other people wanted to give it to them.

Well said.

I also believe people are not realizing we and the other alliances holding/fighting for HzH are -not- interested in making a measely 50-250k just to make a party to die within 30 seconds or 3 hours.
I don't give a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO if they pay me 50k each, I still wouldn't take them with me just to fail.
If alliances are as big as you suggest, then you would have no problem finding someone to always beat the current guys price. I offer 50k, another guy pm's me saying he'll do it for 40k, then I pm another guy who says he'll do it for 35k...
With a purported 1000 people it's likely you could get in for 100 gold or free!
Waste of my time. I'm interested in this mission because I enjoy the challenge and it's pretty fun. We have a lot of top tier players that do it, and we're still challenged.

This is getting out of hand. Do you also object to paying 1k to enter FoW and UW?
Damn..what if you have no money because you don't farm or play the game very much at all?? You're denied access OMG! Nerf! change it! gogo anet heed my beck and call!

felinette · May 04, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

in order to reach the elite mission area you actually have to try O.o same with hoh to reach it and win you have to actually try and work hard.

We don't mind trying in a way that's fun and requires skill. Read what people are saying... and read the last line of the post you responded to...

unienaule · May 04, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Herbalizer,
What kind of maps do you play to get into HoH? What kind of a map is HoH? What kind of maps do you have to grind to get into elite missions? What kinds of maps are the elite missions?

For the sake of speeding things up, here are the answers:
1) You play PvP maps to get in.
2) HoH is a PvP map.
3) You are forced into grinding PvP missions.
4) They are PvE missions.

Yet another totally inappropriate analogy, compliments of The Herbalizer.

Posts from both sides that say things like "Stop your crying, babies," "you all suck at GW anyway," etc, get deleted.

Macktar Wang · May 04, 2006, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

you all dont understand. you all argue that you have paid for the elite area which automaically qulaifies you for access to it. i could argue i have paid for hoh and i should be allowed there even if i do not try. in order to reach the elite mission area you actually have to try O.o same with hoh to reach it and win you have to actually try and work hard. the pvpers get there special capes, hoh chests etc as rewards for doing well. the pve'ers get the elite mission areas as a reward for hard work.

you say you dont want to work hard or put effort into getting to the area then why do you deserve it? because you paid for it? paying for something does not mean you have special rights to be able to access anything you want.

What is HoH? Is it PvP or PvE? PvP is competition against others. Therefore, you advance by winning. PvE is competition agains the gaming environment. I paid to play a PvE game that didn't involve direct competition with other gamers (or should I call them farmers).

Should the elite missions have a special requirement to gain access? Of course they should. Should I be locked out because I won't leave my small guild for an UBER Faction Farming guild, or kiss up/bribe whoever is holding the cities? I didn't pay for that, so no. Leave the competition to the PvP arenas and out of the PvE world.

Lasher Dragon · May 04, 2006, 06:18 PM // 18:18

It's pretty simple really. Flame and get your post deleted. Respond to flames by quoting them and/or flaming back and get your post deleted.

Greedy Gus · May 04, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Herbalizer,
What kind of maps do you play to get into HoH? What kind of a map is HoH? What kind of maps do you have to grind to get into elite missions? What kinds of maps are the elite missions?

For the sake of speeding things up, here are the answers:
1) You play PvP maps to get in.
2) HoH is a PvP map.
3) You are forced into grinding PvP missions.
4) They are PvE missions.

Thank you for yet another totally inappropriate analogy.

Oh yeah, posts from both sides that say things like "Stop your crying, babies," get deleted.

unienaule, it's fairly obvious you don't know what you're talking about. The players who are powergaming PvE right now to take control of HZH are farming the PVE mission called amatz basin. How is that remotely related to PvP?

As far as the people complaining that Arenanet is forcing them to have a certain amount of players in their alliance, of course the teams with the max amount of players allowed will do better. They have to set a limit, no matter how arbitrarily, and if you can meet it you'll be better off than people who can't. You complain that you and your 10 RL buddies can't viably compete for these elite missions....did you complain that you and your 5 RL buddies couldn't GvG at the top levels? That Arenanet was "forcing" you to join another guild to field 8 players?

pigdestroyer · May 04, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

I can foresee

"Top Alliance Recruiting

200k invite per guild!"

Sciros Darkblade · May 04, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Re-read my above post guys, before you go all-out about how it's *forced* grind. It's not, at least as long as the alliance holding an area or having access to Urgoz/Deep lets you in [for a price]. The game is still very young, wait for thing to mature first and then we can identify more relevant weaknesses in the design.

Yes, at the moment those with access asked 25-50k for access; my guildmate checked. That's absurdly high. However, that should drop; it has only been a few days for now ^_^ give it some time and things should become clearer.

MelechRic · May 04, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasher Dragon

It's pretty simple really. Flame and get your post deleted. Respond to flames by quoting them and/or flaming back and get your post deleted.

Thanks for the input.

Dials back rage, gets some perspective.

ignis · May 04, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

and people, nobody is forcing you to grind. go kill Shiro again or work on getting titles or some such. point out to me where it said that access to those elite missions is a must-have? are you going to die without it? I think not.

and if you can't live without them elite missions, how about instead of whining you put together a big good aliance?

Stabber · May 04, 2006, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Someone please point out to me the part where Anet said they were going to introduce forced grind for access to content.

It's right there in the Factions FAQ:

Quote:

Q: What are alliances and how do they work in Guild Wars Factions?

A: Guilds can join together to form guild alliances. Allied guilds share Alliance chat and can visit each other’s guild halls. Alliances can also gain control of towns and outposts in Cantha by participating in Alliance Battles, which give them the ability to trigger events and gain access to exclusive areas.

Emphasis mine. Now, whether you consider participation in alliance battles to be grind or not is a matter of opinion, but they are quite clear about you having to obtain faction in order to gain access to exclusive areas. Anet seems to have intended alliance battles as the primary means of earning faction.

Greedy Gus · May 04, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macktar Wang

What is HoH? Is it PvP or PvE? PvP is competition against others. Therefore, you advance by winning. PvE is competition agains the gaming environment. I paid to play a PvE game that didn't involve direct competition with other gamers (or should I call them farmers).

Then it's a misunderstanding. The territory control system is strictly PvP. The charr don't hold any towns, you don't have to overtake the mursaat to take over House Zu Heltzer. If your stance is that you bought the game for PvE and don't care about the PvP side, then why would you be upset that you can't own a town (players vs. players). The elite mission is a PvE reward for a PvP game mechanic. So were crystalline sword drops in HoH - did you complain about that?

MelechRic · May 04, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by ignis

and people, nobody is forcing you to grind. go kill Shiro again or work on getting titles or some such. point out to me where it said that access to those elite missions is a must-have? are you going to die without it? I think not.

and if you can't live without them elite missions, how about instead of whining you put together a big good aliance?

Thanks for the condescending post. People aren't always whining when they are unhappy with the current status quo. Also, a lot of us are working on other parts of the game. Personally, I haven't even finished it so elite content access isn't a huge priority, but it's still something that's bothersome to me and apparently to a lot of other people.

The Herbalizer · May 04, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

unienaule, it's fairly obvious you don't know what you're talking about. The players who are powergaming PvE right now to take control of HZH are farming the PVE mission called amatz basin. How is that remotely related to PvP?

As far as the people complaining that Arenanet is forcing them to have a certain amount of players in their alliance, of course the teams with the max amount of players allowed will do better. They have to set a limit, no matter how arbitrarily, and if you can meet it you'll be better off than people who can't. You complain that you and your 10 RL buddies can't viably compete for these elite missions....did you complain that you and your 5 RL buddies couldn't GvG at the top levels? That Arenanet was "forcing" you to join another guild to field 8 players?

I was just about to say that but you summed it up nicely. i dont know why he got all technical about pvp as i was only arguing about the hard work required.

what i was trying to say is that pvpers have to work hard to get something. some may never get to hoh and win if they dont work hard.

the same could be said for elite missions. working hard to get them is required.

people say that the working hard is wrong maybe we should scrap anything which involves working hard???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

The elite mission is a PvE reward for a PvP game mechanic. So were crystalline sword drops in HoH - did you complain about that?

wow thank you. its nice someone sees sense.

heaven · May 04, 2006, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Well, the way I see this is getting bad to worse. In Tyria, when teams fight for HoH they are fighting for their regions (America, Europe, Korea .....). They are not only fight for themselves, they fight for every single player in their regions.

All players in a region appreciate the winning teams who gget the favor of the gods for everyone in that region. It is a benefit for all. Now in Cantha it is not so any more. Alliances fight for their own benefit, not for "the greater good" anymore. Actually most of casual players and small guilds will hate alliances that control high content missions because they are so exclusive.

Teams winning HoH do not have control who should be able to access UW/FOW, the gods decide that

. Now in Cantha they are THE GODS themselves

.

Remember in ToA there were so many players cheered for their region's teams to win HoH? Most cheer wildly for the honor and benefit for all. "Go America!" No more! No more! No more! What the different does it make if an alliance hold a capital to me -> none, don't care. There is nothing to cheer about anymore

.

Give us new realms of the gods Anet! Bring back "for the greater good" spirit Anet!