Curse

nohooiam · May 04, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macktar Wang

Many people here, including myself, feel that eventually, the holding alliance will see this as a money making opportunity, and start charging admission prices.

that'll never happen. i've played with most of the top alliances, and these allainces would never sustain itself based on greed.

the reality is quite different from your paranoia my friend.

Keeper of Birds · May 04, 2006, 05:27 PM // 17:27

I like the idea of having areas where you have to work to get into, even if it is not easy. But I think the posters who contend that they are structurally denied access due to the way they play the game are clearly spot on.

I'm not seeing alot of suggestions here as to how to fix, beyond simply scrapping it.

How about this? Your guild/ alliance/ character can still buy access to an elite mission area with faction. But it is a finite amount, and your access is not exclusive (you don't own it). You could also peg the amount to the number of people gaining access, for example, 10,000 faction per person (so it would cost 500k faction for a 50 person guild). Or you could make it a set amount.

Access also expires after a period of time- 3 days, a week, whatever.

Set the amount to be something that would be work, so people who wanted to do it would at least have to make some investment in time. But don't make it so one group having access simultaneously excluded others.

Just a thought, but I think this would help keep some of the original intention without the excessive restrictiveness based on play style.

Macktar Wang · May 04, 2006, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by eudas

well, to be completely pedantic, you're *competing* for survival against the environment.

the problem is, of course, that that competition isn't particularly difficult, in practical terms. the crappy AI is an example of this. like most games, AI suffers, and the developers turn towards forcing the players against each other since they're not able to offer the players significant challenges in any other way.

eudas

No argument there. This "holding" system now turns us PvE players into PvP players. We are now competing against each other, it is just a different event. Instead of head-to-head combat, we are now head-to-head farming. Boy, that sounds like fun.

eudas · May 04, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iskrah

You didn't get the comic either apparently.

I did, but when you think about it, really, it's a valid enough point: sometimes, there *are* things that aren't "FOR you".

eudas

Loralai · May 04, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by heaven

Give us a new UW/FOW in Cantha and you can do Elite missions the way you want Anet. Most of casual players will have high content (UW/FOW) to play and hardcore alliances can have their elite missions to play with. Everyone will be happy!

Oh, I see this coming. You can bet that as the smoke continues to rise over Cantha as PVE players get closer and closer to the final mission, and see it for what it really is, magically Anet will introduce us to the 2 mysterious new areas, hoping that we all shut up and dive into it.

They are just waiting for the right moment.

samifly · May 04, 2006, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker

So you like the elitism of PvP HoH controlling the fate of all others getting in to FoW/UW vs. the ability of a large PvE guild with little or no skill in PvP getting access to elite missions?

Wow.

Sorry I think it is balanced... large alliances now can overcome the "elite" few.

Well, to be honest, most of the factions giving pve opportunites give out, I have to farm at one of the arcade like challange missions, while its a part of the basic structure of pvp. you get faction for killing the other team. I dont get faction for clearing an area, defeating mobs, and doing what i normally do in pve, and there are only two or 3 repeatable quests. PvE guilds may help a little with the faction, but most of it will come from pvp missions.

shadowfell · May 04, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by nohooiam

that'll never happen. i've played with most of the top alliances, and these allainces would never sustain itself based on greed.

the reality is quite different from your paranoia my friend.

Yah, right.. and how many guilds in those top alliances are charging 40k for slots within their main guild, or one of the guilds chapters, Plenty. What is this money to pay for, pencils and notebooks?

Macktar Wang · May 04, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by nohooiam

that'll never happen. i've played with most of the top alliances, and these allainces would never sustain itself based on greed.

the reality is quite different from your paranoia my friend.

The top alliances may not be the top alliances forever. The CE isn't even out yet. I know several players aren't even to that area of the game. You are basing this on the assumption that these top alliances will ALWAYS hold the key cities. I'm sure they will eventually tire of faction farming and move on to other things.

I sincerely hope you are right, but based on my experiences in the game, greed will show up here eventually.

Dr Strangelove · May 04, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Yknow, I'm actually ok with the new system. The holding alliance can admit people as they choose. Whether they choose to do it for free is up to them, although I find it unlikely that you couldn't find *someone* to take you in. If you have to pay, well, ok. Am I the only one who remembers that you have to pay to get into UW and FoW? The new system will also prevent repetetive farming runs that turned the UW from an area with awesome loot into a gold sink. Besides, the elite mission provide an incentive to take those cities, without that, I doubt most people woul really care about being able to hold a parade for a short period of time.

I would like it if Anet added some more endgame content similar to Sorrow's furnace or tombs, but only time will tell on that.

heaven · May 04, 2006, 05:35 PM // 17:35

This propably going to be a good money-making machine ever. The holding alliance just ask for 1k per head for anyone who want to get to an elite mission. Just like a group donate 1k to the gods to access UW/FOW, you should also donate to the holding alliance to get to its "territory"!!! I bet most players won't mind to pay 1k to get access to an elite mission

.

pbspectre · May 04, 2006, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker

So you like the elitism of PvP HoH controlling the fate of all others getting in to FoW/UW vs. the ability of a large PvE guild with little or no skill in PvP getting access to elite missions?

Wow.

Sorry I think it is balanced... large alliances now can overcome the "elite" few.

you misunderstand me...i was addressing the whole "if you want it, go take it" agrument...in the case of Favor, this is possible...a small, highly skilled group, whether they're professional PvPers or not, can go and win HoH with the sole purpose of gaining access to UW/FoW...in Factions, this isn't possible...it now takes a huge number of players farming faction for your Alliance in order to gain control and access endgame content...

and the whole "the more faction you have, the faster it decays" idea only perpetuates the grind by requiring Alliances to continue grinding if they want to stay on top...as i've said umpteen times, it's not about skill anymore, it's about numbers and grind...

felinette · May 04, 2006, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keeper of Birds

Set the amount to be something that would be work, so people who wanted to do it would at least have to make some investment in time.

Why? If I'm a regular player of the game, but I don't want to grind or be forced to play certain missions over and over again, why should I be shut out of certain areas? It's a freaking game, and I paid the same amount for it that everyone else did. Why turn it into work? I don't care if Joe Blow down the street, who only plays one hour a day, has access to the same areas I do.

nohooiam · May 04, 2006, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

Yah, right.. and how many guilds in those top alliances are charging 40k for slots within their main guild, or one of the guilds chapters, Plenty. What is this money to pay for, pencils and notebooks?

is this based on knowledge that you have or GUESSWORK?

so far noone has mentioned of being denied access into the elite missions.

in fact most people said the holding alliances allowed free entry when asked.

pbspectre · May 04, 2006, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Yknow, I'm actually ok with the new system. The holding alliance can admit people as they choose. Whether they choose to do it for free is up to them, although I find it unlikely that you couldn't find *someone* to take you in. If you have to pay, well, ok. Am I the only one who remembers that you have to pay to get into UW and FoW? The new system will also prevent repetetive farming runs that turned the UW from an area with awesome loot into a gold sink. Besides, the elite mission provide an incentive to take those cities, without that, I doubt most people woul really care about being able to hold a parade for a short period of time.

and what's to stop them from charging huge amounts of gold?...there are no rules governing how they run "their" city...it leaves too much open for abuse...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

I would like it if Anet added some more endgame content similar to Sorrow's furnace or tombs, but only time will tell on that.

i believe Gaile's already stated that there won't be any SF-type updates between now and Chapter 3....

Tobias Funke · May 04, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Maybe some numbers are in order here. My guild has 20 players. Imagine it compared to a guild with 100. For my guild to be taken into an alliance each of us would have to generate 5 times as much faction as any one of their players. This basically means that if per capita our guild generates faction 4.99999 times faster than the big guild, the big guild still gets chosen over our guild because in gross they make more faction that ours, EVEN though were are 5 times better players than they are.

There is nothing competative about this. This is about grind over skill. You'd think a game taht doesn't charge a monthly fee wouldn't want to make players grind out faction and increase their bandwidth usage. You'd be wrong. Changing the current system benefits not only us, but A-net as well.

The Herbalizer · May 04, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by felinette

Why? If I'm a regular player of the game, but I don't want to grind or be forced to play certain missions over and over again, why should I be shut out of certain areas? It's a freaking game, and I paid the same amount for it that everyone else did. Why turn it into work? I don't care if Joe Blow down the street, who only plays one hour a day, has access to the same areas I do.

why am i not allowed into hall of heros. i have paid for it yet i dont have time to get there so why not let me into it.

crimsonfilms · May 04, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

why am i not allowed into hall of heros. i have paid for it yet i dont have time to get there so why not let me into it.

You are actually comparing HA to a entire explorable mission?
gg

Hell you can just beat the ghost and end up in HoH.

ignis · May 04, 2006, 05:57 PM // 17:57

looks like the market will be good.

public chat at House du Heltzer: forming a group for the elite mission, 50k each

Greedy Gus · May 04, 2006, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbspectre

and what's to stop them from charging huge amounts of gold?...there are no rules governing how they run "their" city...it leaves too much open for abuse...

How does anything they do qualify as abuse? The only reason they could make money would be that other people wanted to give it to them.

Macktar Wang · May 04, 2006, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

why am i not allowed into hall of heros. i have paid for it yet i dont have time to get there so why not let me into it.

Wrong argument there buddy. In this instance, not getting into HoH is comparable to not farming enough faction to hold the city. At least if you lose in the HoH, you can still get into the FoW/UW if your country wins. If you don't farm enough faction though, you better hope there are some kind people on that holding alliance. For now they are letting people in for free, but who says they have to let them in at all? How would you like the Voice of Grenth to be moody and change the entry fee to a range? The range could run anywhere between free access and GO AWAY N00B!!11!!1. Or better yet, what if you had to be let into the FoW or UW by the players that won HoH?