Curse

Kakumei · May 04, 2006, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by eudas

there's a difference between giving players an opportunity with some challenge and giving players what they want on a silver platter. a game that isn't challenging, in at least some degree, isn't fun, and won't be played very long.

i'm not defending the alliance thing, it may very well be broken, but what i'm seeing a lot of is players who haven't even exhibited that they're willing to *try* to be competitive, even a *little*. in fact, they've exhibited the exact opposite in their whining. I mean, seriously... as i said before, it's a *competitive* online RPG... competitive is a key word there. if you're not willing to be competitive to any degree, then maybe you're playing the wrong game.

eudas

This is PvE.

PVE.

Let's break that down. Player versus Environment. That is, players (real people like you and me, sitting behind our keyboards) fighting against the environment (the game, the monsters, the AI--things that are not other players).

Why should I have to be competitive anywhere in PvE? At all? Let alone to access the "pinnacle of PvE challenge"?

How does that make sense at all?

MelechRic · May 04, 2006, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtrajan

#4 is false. The fastest way to get faction is the PvE missions that reward faction.
What's so bad about PvP? This is a competitive online rpg, and they've made great efforts to accomodate people for other content and types of play.

Can't you appreciate the work they've done, or go to another PvE specific game?

If you don't like my complaints then why don't you go read some other forum? See how ridiculous that sounds? I hope so.

BTW: I don't have to appreciate the work ANet has done. I paid $50 for this game and that entitles me to my opinion. If I think Factions is a woeful step backwards for ANet then that's fine.

Lastly, I doubt ANet wants me going to some other game. If they did then they'd surely be out of business soon. ANet wants happy paying customers. I'm only the paying customer at the moment.

Iskrah · May 04, 2006, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by eudas

To quote Penny-Arcade (http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2004/20040324h.jpg), the upper levels of this game are most likely "not FOR you", then. It's entirely possible that you fall outside the target demographic on this one.

This *is* a "CORPG", after all -- Competitive Online RPG. If you want to be competitive, you have to put in the time and effort, and some sections (namely, Elite Missions) are all about the competition.

eudas

p.s. that comic makes me giggle every time.

eudas

You didn't get the comic either apparently.

eudas · May 04, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

eudas, you, along with all the other supporters of this inane decision, are completely missing the point.

It's not about Competition. I could be a total slacker, but just because I'm the brother of a leader of an Elite guild, I get to be a guild member, and thus, have access.

Access does not depend on how much Faction you individually earn, how hard your small guild works, or how much time you play.

Access depends solely upon being a part of an Elite Faction Farming Guild.

Skillz optional.

So it's not about what you know, but who you know, is what you're saying.

Ok, welcome to society 101.

Honestly, I'm not the most competitive person in this game yet, either (operative word being 'yet'.) i'm still primarily pve. but when i do get to the stage where i want to do the elite missions, i recognize that i have two options: step up and find a way to get into it, or live without. either one of those options isn't going to kill me.

eudas

Lasher Dragon · May 04, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by eudas

i'm not defending the alliance thing, it may very well be broken, but what i'm seeing a lot of is players who haven't even exhibited that they're willing to *try* to be competitive, even a *little*. in fact, they've exhibited the exact opposite in their whining. I mean, seriously... as i said before, it's a *competitive* online RPG... competitive is a key word there. if you're not willing to be competitive to any degree, then maybe you're playing the wrong game.

eudas

Huh... kinda reminds me of the whole UAS thing, and how the PVP community whined, bitched and flamed long and loud about how they were forced to do some minimal PVE if they wanted to get the content they wanted. I guess the tables are turned now.

Me personally, if I want to do PVP, I play something a bit cleaner. In PVE I can tolerate a bit of clipping issues, some weird glitches, and the occasional rubberband. God forbid that happen while I play a PVP game.

pbspectre · May 04, 2006, 03:49 PM // 15:49

From the beginning ANet has maintained that GW is about skill, not grind...with the intorduction of this BS system, it's no longer about how good you are, it's about how much time you have to faction farm and how many other players you can get to do the same thing...and, given that the very nature of grind is the large amounts of time and energy it consumes, it is hardly a little work...

Macktar Wang · May 04, 2006, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by eudas

there's a difference between giving players an opportunity with some challenge and giving players what they want on a silver platter. a game that isn't challenging, in at least some degree, isn't fun, and won't be played very long.

I agree here. Access to these missions should not be GIVEN out, but a different means of access should be provided.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eudas

i'm not defending the alliance thing, it may very well be broken, but what i'm seeing a lot of is players who haven't even exhibited that they're willing to *try* to be competitive, even a *little*. in fact, they've exhibited the exact opposite in their whining. I mean, seriously... as i said before, it's a *competitive* online RPG... competitive is a key word there. if you're not willing to be competitive to any degree, then maybe you're playing the wrong game.

eudas

So, competitive is now defined as strength in numbers? As many of you have experienced, the Guild Wars community is not full of the most mature people in the world. Why should I, or any other close-knit small guild, have to open up the doors to let any monkey with a PC in to the guild to perform a mind-numbing grind to accumulate the necessary faction to gain entry for two missions? I'm all for a good competition, but at least level the playing field.

MelechRic · May 04, 2006, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by eudas

So it's not about what you know, but who you know, is what you're saying.

Ok, welcome to society 101.

Honestly, I'm not the most competitive person in this game yet, either (operative word being 'yet'.) i'm still primarily pve. but when i do get to the stage where i want to do the elite missions, i recognize that i have two options: step up and find a way to get into it, or live without. either one of those options isn't going to kill me.

eudas

Love it or leave it, huh? What a nice society we'd all live in if it were that way for everything. What if throughout human history that was the prevelant attitude? Seems like we'd all be sitting around a campfire in a cave right now drawing pictures on stone tablets.

People try to change things they perceive as inaddequate or just plain wrong. You can continue to be a supporter for this broken concept of Alliance control if you wish. I'm not buying ANet's argument (or yours for that matter).

Iskrah · May 04, 2006, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasher Dragon

Huh... kinda reminds me of the whole UAS thing, and how the PVP community whined, bitched and flamed long and loud about how they were forced to do some minimal PVE if they wanted to get the content they wanted. I guess the tables are turned now.

I don't think it's like that this time. People complaining are not PvE-only. PvE on one side, PvP on the other. I play both.

ONE alliance gets access. 1.

Before it was one CONTINENT.

It's not about not wanting a challenge. But it's like, I'm going to the playground every day to play basketball... I like it, I love it, but me and my teammates, if we do good, it doesn't mean that we're the best out of hundreds of thousands. We're a bit short on size but we like to stand up. We do sometimes, but sometimes doesn't make us the grandprize winner. They just built this brand new place where we'd like to play, we actually paid real money to play there, as we were told we could... But you have to be part of an NBA team to have the right to play in it.

Fck it.

PS: gotta love how elitist arrogant people are going all "love it or leave it". That sure reminds of real-life attitude...

Ctb · May 04, 2006, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

i'm not defending the alliance thing, it may very well be broken, but what i'm seeing a lot of is players who haven't even exhibited that they're willing to *try* to be competitive, even a *little*.

They're the customers, if they want a square of used toilet paper with every box, then they should get a square of used toilet paper with every box. Unhappy customers = no money. You can't just throw whatever you want at them and claim they're just not doing it right if they aren't happy with what you provided.

It doesn't matter anyway. Time will tell who's in the majority. I'm not buying Factions precisely because of things like this, and I quit playing Prophecies for the most part, save the occasional PvP match, so it's unlikely I'll be buying future chapters either. Time will tell whether or not it's just some "whiners" as you so haughtily put it, or if ANet is just ignoring the customer base in favor of a few specialist players.

Gli · May 04, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtrajan

Wow, you guys are awesome.

Gli -- So you think that guilds like iGi, Char, Te and iQ are all real life friends before they started? Have you seen any guild in the top 20 that are all -friends in real life- before making their guild?

What is your point? And if you want a frank answer: before you asked I never spent one single second thinking about any of those guilds or the people involved. I don't know these people. Should I change my playstyle to emulate their 'road to success'? Again, what is your point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtrajan

How many threads of crying "anet you suck", "anet you are dumb" and "let's boycott their next product or this product" is it up to now?

I'm not keeping count. Maybe it is true then, that where there's smoke, there's fire? I mean, you're right, there's a hell of a lot of smoke.

crimsonfilms · May 04, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

On a good note - did you hear ANet is charging you $10 for a slot??

Yay.

Wow - can I pay $10 for additional storage and $10 for lag free connection?

Yay

eudas · May 04, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelechRic

Love it or leave it, huh? What a nice society we'd all live in if it were that way for everything. What if throughout human history that was the prevelant attitude? Seems like we'd all be sitting around a campfire in a cave right now drawing pictures on stone tablets.

People try to change things they perceive as inaddequate or just plain wrong. You can continue to be a supporter for this broken concept of Alliance control if you wish. I'm not buying ANet's argument (or yours for that matter).

I'm not even trying to be an Anet apologist for it. It probably is broken and/or badly designed. I'm just reacting against the "Wah! You didn't just automatically *give* it to me!" sort of reaction that I'm hearing here. Jesus Christ, people, that's what competition *means*. There's a winner and a loser. Which one do you want to be? We don't all sit around and have happy hug fun time, and then play with blocks after milk and cookies. Get out there and do what you have to do to get what you want.

eudas

MelechRic · May 04, 2006, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

A person works hard throughout their life and buys an incredibly good racehorse

Another person does not work hard and puts no effort in he goes on to buy an okay racehorse.

The first racehorse wins all of the races and gets lots of prize.
the second racehorse gets nothing as his owner was not willing to put the efford in to afford a better horse.

the person who does not work hard gets annoyed that someone who put the effort in inorder to be the best is winning.

This can be applied to the elite areas. The alliances who work hard to create a strong and powerful alliance will be rewarded with prize e.g. elite missions. Those who do not work hard will not get rewarded.

I never knew it was a crime these days to want to be the best and put lots of hard work in. omg the alliance who works hard is getting stuff we dont. we dont work hard but should be entitled to get what those who work hard get.

those elite missions sure sound sweet from what my alliance tells me

Funny how you use the word "work" here so much. I thought this was a game, and that the point of games was to have fun.

I believe that ANet said this game was about skill, not time spent on-line grinding.

If the majority of the audience ANet wants is supposed to be casual then going out and repeatedly trying to get faction (which is how you defined work) seems like it's really just grinding.

Why not really make the game about skill (regardless of PvP/PvE)? Let people access the areas via other means than town control. At the very least don't make it so you need to be a cartel to actually play some of the more fun and intersting parts of PvE.

Macktar Wang · May 04, 2006, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by eudas

I'm not even trying to be an Anet apologist for it. It probably is broken and/or badly designed. I'm just reacting against the "Wah! You didn't just automatically *give* it to me!" sort of reaction that I'm hearing here. Jesus Christ, people, that's what competition *means*. There's a winner and a loser. Which one do you want to be? We don't all sit around and have happy hug fun time, and then play with blocks after milk and cookies. Get out there and do what you have to do to get what you want.

eudas

Funny, I do this in the real world every day. I didn't think I'd have to do it in a game that I PAID to play also.

Mordakai · May 04, 2006, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonfilms

On a good note - did you hear ANet is charging you $10 for a slot??

Yay.

Wow - can I pay $10 for additional storage and $10 for lag free connection?

Yay

Way to go off topic, Crimson. The two aren't even remotely equal.

Everyone new about the slots BEFORE the game came out.

We were assured all would have access to Elite content if we "worked hard."

We were also told farming would not be necessary. At this point, it appears we were lied to.

What really gets my goat is I listened to Jeff Strain tell us how much he enjoyed PvE, and enjoyed exploring all the content. Then he released a game that it appears not even he would enjoy.

Iskrah · May 04, 2006, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by eudas

I'm not even trying to be an Anet apologist for it. It probably is broken and/or badly designed. I'm just reacting against the "Wah! You didn't just automatically *give* it to me!" sort of reaction that I'm hearing here. Jesus Christ, people, that's what competition *means*. There's a winner and a loser. Which one do you want to be? We don't all sit around and have happy hug fun time, and then play with blocks after milk and cookies. Get out there and do what you have to do to get what you want.

The point is that the overwhelming majority will be permanent loser because they're not online 24/7. Not one winner and one loser, but one winner and a lot of competitive but not enough losers.

And ANet is SUPPOSED to take a stand on how you don't need to be playing 24/7. Hence the skill over time spent motto, hence the "take a break after 3 hours of playing"!

They just do THE CONTRARY of what they advertise.

Okay, got it now?

aron searle · May 04, 2006, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

ONE alliance gets access. 1.

Before it was one CONTINENT.

Ok so thats how it works, ive only just got it.

I didnt think that was right as its just the most stupid stupid thing ive ever heard of, but its actually true?

I mean seriosly thats so dumb i just dont know what to say other than its dumb.

crimsonfilms · May 04, 2006, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by eudas

I think that you should know that this is, ultimately, what is limiting you from obtaining access to these area -- your unwillingness to join a larger guild or guild alliance, even for a short time.

It's not that you're being limited so much as it is that you're limiting yourself.

eudas

In a truly competative environment (like pro sports) - actual content is actually given out evenly (rules, locations of competition, uniform, etc).

The prize is what changes. Since ANet has made the content the price (like winning to get stadium for your team) - you have criticism.

Rightfully so.

This CORPG is a cop-out. Its an attempt to be the all mighty answer for any problem.

Half of the income of ANet, if not more, are from PvErs....

Mosch · May 04, 2006, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

A person works hard throughout their life and buys an incredibly good racehorse

Another person does not work hard and puts no effort in he goes on to buy an okay racehorse.

The first racehorse wins all of the races and gets lots of prize.
the second racehorse gets nothing as his owner was not willing to put the efford in to afford a better horse.

the person who does not work hard gets annoyed that someone who put the effort in inorder to be the best is winning.

This can be applied to the elite areas.

No. It cannot. Your idea is meaningless and has nothing at all in common with the system. If I may be allowed to spout some whiny, meaningless drivel:

My guild, which consists of my friends who I all know, has about 12 active players, and that's pretty exxagerated. We are (this is a thought construct, so bear with me) the best players in the world. EVER. We each take 1 hour to get 5000 Faction points. We play all the time and therefore get 5000 * 12 * 24 = 1440000 Faction each day. We put all of that towards getting into the elite missions.
Sara's Unruly Cheater Klan [SUCK] has 50 members who pretty much suck and take three times as long as we do to get the same amount of Faction. They make 5000 * 50 * 8 = 2000000 Faction points a day.
I understand perfectly how we are not allowed into the elite missions - after all, we obviously did not spam "Guild looking for members, have cape, hall, own band" enough. The notion that this system would kinda not reqard our skill is absurd, we obviously do suck, or else we'd have been the ones in the elite misison.

Or, to use your analogy: I love my race horse and care for it every day, I feed it health food and brush the fur constantly. I win the race. Yay. Someone buys 10 horses... see where I'm going?