Curse

Cracko · May 08, 2006, 08:39 PM // 20:39

its easy why there are more 'whining' threads than positive threads.

When you buy a game, you EXPECT it to be good, when you feel like the game is rubbish you feel you got ripped off and you want to complain about that. When its all running flawless without any struggling you think: Yes, this is just what i expected!

And most likely you see bad things faster than the good

Coolniceronguy · May 08, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheShadowedBlade

People dislike change.

Yes, I agree.

Change is neither good, or bad, it is what it is.

However, when a change is implemented that will be regarded as a negative, it would be nice to have it counterbalanced with a change that would be regarded as positive.

Case in point: the AoE nerf. I witnessed a great deal of people who simply quit because of that update.

While change is inevitable, the rate, and quantity, of changes is what concerns me. In my opinion, I have seen too many changes made at the same time in this game, resulting in only what can be described as a clusterf#ck.

There is an old saying: Festina Lente(Make haste slowly).

Mandy Memory · May 08, 2006, 11:02 PM // 23:02

From a veteran player: It was the same when prophecies first came out, the betas started/ended....and every change that has ever been made...ever.

Eet GnomeSmasher · May 08, 2006, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolniceronguy

Case in point: the AoE nerf. I witnessed a great deal of people who simply quit because of that update.

And the people who quit, threatened to quit over such a minor change are idiots.

Textural · May 08, 2006, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Sorry, didn't really read every reply...

Nothing is going to be perfect, so there's always going to be negative comments afloating. Especially since a game that has been operating for a year, each veteran player is going to have their own expectations, and most of them, won't be met.

And yeah as people have mentioned, positive comments are not usually expressed with words, but through action (players continuously tweaking). A lot of members here seem to actively complain and hopefully make an impact to the game... and some just want the attention and point out something so miniscule. When I read the forums, I prefer reading complaints in a neutral suggestion (to hopefully turn the negative into positive) form rather than bitching and whining (annoying and unintelligent).

As for me, I do have some complaints about Factions, but nothing worth posting about. I'm enjoying the most parts of the game and ignoring the bad parts for the time being (except for glitches and bugs

).

Sidra · May 08, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowman Artemis

From what I've heard from the older users/mods, the same things were said at the launch of Prophecies. I wasn't here, but it seems that the same thing might be happening. I see a lot of threads saying that the later-game missions are empty and thus, must suck. But the thing is, a lot of people can't get past (or are not rushing through) the first part of the game.

Sorry for not taking the time to read this whole thread, but I had to reply to this.

Prophecies had 1+ yrs. to develop. Factions has half that time, if that much, to fix itself up. If anet is cranking out games like this every 6 months, they should be damned well near where prophecies is or close to it or else it's not even worth buying them because they will take at least that long to rectify. Not good strategies.

Loviatar · May 09, 2006, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidra

Sorry for not taking the time to read this whole thread, but I had to reply to this.

Prophecies had 1+ yrs. to develop. Factions has half that time, if that much, to fix itself up. If anet is cranking out games like this every 6 months, they should be damned well near where prophecies is or close to it or else it's not even worth buying them because they will take at least that long to rectify. Not good strategies.

NOTE THIS

there are TWO TEAMS working a staggered output of 1 year every 6 months.

FACTIONS was started at the release of GW and has 1 year of work.

chapter 3 was started by the second team 6 months later and will be released in oct/nov again with a full year of work.

Bowman Artemis · May 09, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidra

Sorry for not taking the time to read this whole thread, but I had to reply to this.

Prophecies had 1+ yrs. to develop. Factions has half that time, if that much, to fix itself up. If anet is cranking out games like this every 6 months, they should be damned well near where prophecies is or close to it or else it's not even worth buying them because they will take at least that long to rectify. Not good strategies.

It's a little over a week and a half after launch, give it some time.

If you had read some of the interviews on gamespot and other similar sites, you'd know that there are 2-3 dev teams working on chapters. Each overlap each other. An example is below in my bad ascii art. Dotted lines represent dev periods.

Code:

GW:P team                                GW:4 team
---------------------------------------  ---------------------------------------  
                 GW:F team
                 ---------------------------------------
                                  GW:3 team
                                  ---------------------------------------

all overlapping somewhat like that. Each row represents a single dev team with the GW:P team moving on to create GW:4 while GW:F team starts on GW:5 and the GW:3 team keep working on GW:3.

Griff Mon · May 09, 2006, 12:15 AM // 00:15

- I recall the holy rants and spitting rages over the AoE nerf from a few months back.

-People don't like to see changes unless it fits into their view of what should be changed and how, it is invading their comfort zone of a game that a lot of them are very wrapped up in, and is viewed as an imposition.

-Personally, I have Factions, but am now back Tyria trying to finish bonuses, and finding that many places are quite empty, which is sad. Even ToA only has 2 or 3 districts, even when we have favor, so people must have gone over there and are enjoying it.

SisterMercy · May 09, 2006, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Geez. The game has been out only a little over a week.

1) When Prophecies came out, there was no A.net benchmark to compare to, unless you count Diablo. With Factions, we'd already become accustomed to something more beautiful, more developed and in a better gaming format (instancing, reduced griefing, etc). It's hard to top the way they raised the bar at that time.

2) With Factions, they could have just as easily just simply come up with a new map, new skills, new pets and left it at that, but the fact is, they developed new concepts (12x12 Alliance battles, co-operative missions) and made developmental changes based on what the fanbase is asking for (i.e. discouraging running, introducing promising Mesmer skills that might help them finally get them into PvE parties once people get a sense of what they can do, making areas much less vulnerable to solo farming, etc).

Change will always get complaints. At first. Give it time, and see what people grow to like, as well as what A.net sees fit to change. It wouldn't surprise me if they institute something so that the locked door phenomenon will later only apply to your first Canthan and/or Tyrian character.

One week. Geez.

MMSDome · May 09, 2006, 03:04 AM // 03:04

its a new game its bound to be hecktick, as it is. You will never succeed at making a game perfect, let alone on the first try. The companies controlling the game could never have noticed everything that was wrong, the community has, the game is good. And it will be better because they will update what they missed. Dont give up on them now!

Mr_T_bot · May 09, 2006, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

And the people who quit, threatened to quit over such a minor change are idiots.

You're definition of a major or minor change is what? The number of updates released that day? The AoE AI update changed aggro control methods, killing methods (destroyed what little offensive ability the smiting monk had), and strategy in general.

The problem with change in Guild Wars is that the most drastic ones are not brought on gradually, they are magicked out of thin air when beta changes to release so that people think somethnig will work one way, and that is why they liked the game, it is entirely changed and works a completely different, unrelated way.

Exoudeous · May 09, 2006, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

And your just plain ignorant. It's called getting your money's worth. First off, just because somebody complains about a game doesn't mean they wont bother giving it a fair chance or try to make it better suit their needs. Second, just because they complain about one or two particulars doesn't mean they don't like it at all.

The so called hypocrits are those that post how they are sick and tired of 'whiners' but then post suggestions themselves indicating they have a beef about something in the game. They post a suggestion (pretty much a whine about the current state of the game) but focus more on the change they want to see while others focus more on the current state of the game.

If it wasn't for so called 'whiners' we would still live in the stone ages as cave men. Change owes it's existence to people unsatisfied by the current state of things. Good change anyway.

There are some bad changes but they owe their existence to lack of common sense. Examples of this are the "Not for human consumption" warning on fish hooks and "Caution Hot" on coffee cups. The later existing on Tim Horton's cups because someone sued them after burning themself while trying to drink the coffee while driving. The type of person that would probably give the workers hell if the coffee was too cold.

Point is common sense goes a long way but only goes so far. For good change to occure people need to complain about the current state of things (in a game or real life). So when someone has a problem about something in the game and post so then show some damn respect. If they complain in the general discussion forum tell them to come up with a suggestion and post that in the appropriate forum. If they post a small suggestion after complaining then tell them to think their suggestion through, do some research and repost or edit their openning one. If you are against it then just say so and why and if your against it just because the op did mostly complain or you think the idea is just stupid then don't be so shallow. Don't post if you don't have anything intelligent to say. Something that happens far too often on these forums by a select few.

the only ont thats ignorent here is you for taking what I said out of context.

did I say people couldnt complain or state their opinion? no

I was being on topic, and the topic was that with all these people complaing that there would be few people palying fations. I stated that even the people that complain will stil be playing, and people you hear saying they wont paly till changes are made, are the same ones that still appear online regularly to play.

nimloth32 · May 09, 2006, 05:17 AM // 05:17

bah, this game is good..just some stupid kids found out that their favourite builds are nerfed or they cannot suit to the changes made to the game..hence, the rant..i hate it when those stupid rants cause ppl to avoid playing the game..well, i just really hope that anet will view these rants in a positive way and improve the game..and btw, those who threatens to quit the game..i think they are total idiots..well, if you cannot find yourself suit to the gameplay, go quit and buy another game..=P..

Xapti · May 09, 2006, 05:25 AM // 05:25

The Guild Hall has had "sour" people for a very long time. It somes with being a veteran, and is particularily abundunt where you won't get attempted shot down by newbies who've only played for a month.

People just get naturely tired of things, even if there's "new content" (which is still the same game though, hence nothing surprizing). The negative aspect (s) of the game just grow and fester.

Other things might be a bit from changes... all the changes from Factions, and/or any updates they've done; like people have said.

Particularily with Factions, people might have had different expectations. I consider this least-probabble of the main problem though, as there's been boredom/dissatisfaction for the game even since release, and when UAS was removed, etc.

Opeth11 · May 09, 2006, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Plus, it's always easier to criticize than to complement. That's probably the reason why there is an alarming number negative threads.

When a player likes a certain element in the game and decides to create a thread on the subject, not much can be added, really.

Example -
Thread : I love how -insert skill- complements my ability to work with my team!
Response : Yes, very cool
Response 2 : Yes, it does help out my team
Response 3 : haha I can't believe you use dat skll
Response 4 : Um..sure!

Now, there isn't much to add, is there?

A thread with a negative mood within it's original post makes it much easier to pull out opinions of others.

Example - WOW Y DOES THIS GAME KEEP GETTING NURFED
Original Post - OMG WHY! BUFF IT MORE PLX. BRING BACK FARMING
Response 1 - Then people would abuse it!
Response 2 - *insert intelligent response, countering the original post*
Response 3 - No, I think you're wrong, here's why.
Response 4 - I LIKE BOXES
Response 5 - *more intelligent responses*

Although the formation of threads and responses may not be accurate, you can see that it does prove the point that I mentioned about criticism and positive feedback.

I suppose we all have to live with it. Somehow, I feel I have strayed off topic.

strcpy · May 09, 2006, 06:00 AM // 06:00

One thing is that just because there are complaints it isn't really a negative.

A good possibility one or two of those complaints came from me, but none are really game shattering. I don't like that Elite missions are pretty much inaccessable to guilds of one person (like myself) and I've complained about some of the glitches (bad healer hench - now fixed, just wrote a complaint about a hench bug in Vizunah). I also don't like that I have to be partnered with people on co-op mission, I like all henchies (I can't take my time, do stupid things, and others unless I want a bunch of people angry with me).

But I still, over all, like the game. Most of my complaints will be fixed in time, at least I hope. The ones that aren't? Eh - no games perfect. Some, like all hench co-ops, may only be me and a small handful want them so no go. Some like the Elite mission's exclusions may be intentional and not care. Then again - it may not. Heck, I really like prophecies and will have a blast with my assassin in tyria until the bugs I need fixed are done.

I rather suspect that most acting like they will RageQuit will still be here in a few months. Not really anyplace else to go to get thier way - pretty much every other game is the same or worse in 95% of the complaints.

Ken Dei · May 09, 2006, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Personal observations about the GW series as it is now:

-The players are far more active in the forums then most other games I've played. So it might be a better measure of community disposition then normal.

-As it goes with positivity, just because people don't post it doesn't mean they're not unhappy with it. It's a two edge sword in that regard. (if that didn't make sense I can try and reword it)

-People anticipated GW: Prophecies with mild attention, we all figured it was another RPG. The thing that made this whole situation of the "angry community" possible began there. Let me explain:

When GW: Proph. came out people were wowed. We'd never had such a great game for so little money. It was fresh and fun, and A.net acted like a company that gave a damn about its players and their wishes. They set a very high bar of standards among the community.

Therein lies the problem. When people were suggesting things for Factions, there were certain things we said we'd like to see, and more importantly things that we said we didn't want. As time went on and rumors began, people became a bit concerned with what they were hearing. They tried to remind A.Net what not to do, and asked for things to be clearer. A.net told us to wait. Having faith, we waited, allowing and hoping A.Net would wow us again.

Well....they wowed us alright. By doing everything we told them not to do. And now, being shocked, and angry, we demanded action. But there has been silence. The one thing a game community HATES, will not tolerate, is the unnessessary testing of the standards they and the company set for the game/series.

A.Net set a very high bar....then they tried to walk under it....big mistake.

dreamhunk · May 09, 2006, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Dei

Personal observations about the GW series as it is now:

-The players are far more active in the forums then most other games I've played. So it might be a better measure of community disposition then normal.

-As it goes with positivity, just because people don't post it doesn't mean they're not unhappy with it. It's a two edge sword in that regard. (if that didn't make sense I can try and reword it)

-People anticipated GW: Prophecies with mild attention, we all figured it was another RPG. The thing that made this whole situation of the "angry community" possible began there. Let me explain:

When GW: Proph. came out people were wowed. We'd never had such a great game for so little money. It was fresh and fun, and A.net acted like a company that gave a damn about its players and their wishes. They set a very high bar of standards among the community.

Therein lies the problem. When people were suggesting things for Factions, there were certain things we said we'd like to see, and more importantly things that we said we didn't want. As time went on and rumors began, people became a bit concerned with what they were hearing. They tried to remind A.Net what not to do, and asked for things to be clearer. A.net told us to wait. Having faith, we waited, allowing and hoping A.Net would wow us again.

Well....they wowed us alright. By doing everything we told them not to do. And now, being shocked, and angry, we demanded action. But there has been silence. The one thing a game community HATES, will not tolerate, is the unnessessary testing of the standards they and the company set for the game/series.

A.Net set a very high bar....then they tried to walk under it....big mistake.

I would agree with your post, or people that were speaking up about rpg got band or wore told not to say any thing now. now pve players are really mad at the content of the game. Now you are seeing pve players upset for the first time. they are now speaking out in all of the fourms.

It is just not in this fourm but all of the fourms. there is alot of people unhappy with factions.

-Loki- · May 09, 2006, 06:30 AM // 06:30

The people that like it are playing it mostly. Those that don't are complaining on forums. Of course you are going to see more complaints than comments. People that like it will pop in, say they are having a blast, and go back to playing. People complaining will make post after post after post that the game sucks. Just going by forum threads isn't a really good way to guage the games reception.