Curse

Red · May 10, 2006, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockster

This is all fine and nice, but one of the most efective ways to get your points heard is to either get friendly with an alpha tester or two, or become one. They have much more direct lines of communication. And have much greater chance of being listened to over some random posts in fansite forums.

Hock, your character's name is my pet's name. We were destined to meet. MARRY ME.
.... meanwhile, how would one go about becoming an Alpha Tester? Shall I PM my demand to Gaile and see where that gets me? XD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_L

What is this? After sifting through the rambling post... [etc] This would, of course, be rediculous and a horrible waste of time. Even if its a hand picked group of players, as opposed to you personally, then how are these players picked?

..... *sigh*
Metaphorical writing. Go read Swift's A Modest Proposal and then let's discuss what a monster he is.

If I told you that the "I" was not really supposed to be me personally, but was more a metaphor for the GW Community at large, would it make things better? I'm not so much interested in a direct line of access for myself, though that would be über-cool. I already had someone PM me, in fact, offering to pass along my questions and concerns to a dev who is their personal friend. I rejected it.

I'm not asking for a backstage pass, people. What I was suggesting was much more public. I could offer several suggestions for who should be involved, but I don't think any of them would impress you, since the very idea seems to be such a failure to you. However, EternalTempest's suggestions about a "fan-driven list of questions" is similar to what I'm putting forth. For example, when fantasy author Terry Goodkind gave a chat for his fans, one or two mods drew part of their material from a list of questions the board members had generated during the days leading up to the chat; and I believe I DID suggest a method of implementing this: IRC. It allows for many people to attend a chat, but only a few to speak. I believe it's how Goodkind did his chat, in fact.

~~~~~~~~

I apologize for not getting my point across clearly enough. The main goal is not to give myself a leg up, or even that I want a chat all that badly. I think Omega got to the heart of the issue when he said "HE only wants a communication channel that doesn't involve Gaile's PR babble." Honestly, does Gaile really offer us that much material information in Lion's Arch or Kaineng City that we can't get from the main webpage? We got five sentences on the 12v12 battles that have been the cause of so much disappointment among fans, and that was a drastic change from the FPE which was, for many people, THE deciding factor in purchasing the game.

Five.

And from those five, I'll bet you that either none of the devs responsible for the change play monk, or else they were depending on every 4/4 team either having one or being able to avoid the need for one. XD

Please forgive my impatience; I know that they're probably well aware of the discontent... but are they even open right now to fixing it, or do they feel like they accomplished their goals? People are quoting statistics left and right about how many satisfied customers will actually communicate their pleasure, versus how many dissatisfied players will rant and rave--but I am the leader of my guild, and I know full well the ratios in my own guild. It may be a bit arrogant of me, but I can not believe that my guild is too different from your average guild. And I know that most of my guildies--whether they will play this version of 12v12 or not--feel that a diservice has been done to them. Whether or not they have a RIGHT to feel this is up for debate. Yes, Guild Wars is so much better on the customer front than other companies... but when you get right down to it, they've got dissatisfied customers. No amount of logical reasoning will alter that.

~~~~~~~~

Don't misunderstand me, this is not a rant on 12v12. I'm only using it because I feel it is the most obvious example of what I'm talking about, the easiest to hold to scrutiny. I'd like to see the company move beyond it's shield of PR babble, which consists of whatever the devs are giving their PR manager... and I don't want it for myself. I'd like to see the GWTeam continue on this path they've already chosen, to communicate with their fanbase. I don't expect them to open their decisions to public vote--I don't want them to. But we would not elect a President who promised to do "what is right" without first understanding how he would determine what is right, or what she thinks about certain scenarios. Likewise, one can scarce expect people to (continue to) spend money on something which may or may not be what they are led to believe it is, for reasons unknown. Transparency ftw.

Omega X · May 10, 2006, 06:01 AM // 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by koneko

Did you read the latter part of my post? You missed the point that I was trying (and failed) to make. I wasn't saying anything about going open source - I was responding to ET's comment that it's dangerous to listen to your userbase and to eventually give in to their demands (observer mode, purchasable character slots, +character slots with pre-order access, etc.)

Relevance of the quote: there likely is a design issue (12v12, elite missions). There is a crowd (GWG, GWO, GH, Photics). There have been many suggestions put out as to how to fix the design issues. Backing down from what was originally intended, giving in to demands, whatever - implementing one of the many suggestions will ultimately tick off another segment of your userbase. Wouldn't it be better, then, to keep things the way that the developers intended?

Or something.

I didn't miss the point, I just chose to target a specific part of a comparison that you made. The way that OSSC is also the reason why OSS has grown so much.

The Developers' Intentions in Guild Wars currently are the reasons why there are so many suggestions. The same goes in OSS. When someone like a proprietary software maker fails to listen, a community of fed up users grows and grows. Eventually some of them are programmers who just so happened to take charge and create their own software. That software grows and becomes popular enough to start to topple their proprietary shadows.

Now IF only that company would have listened to users more, they wouldn't lose business. Now look at Guild Wars in that situation execpt there is no one proprietary company, But many of them. And some of them rather than offer a PR guy to smooth the peanut butter when it gets lumpy, actually listens to fans and implement most requested features, options, and fixes. But notice that Designers' hands aren't tied either.

Long story short, there is a line between too much interaction and not enough interaction. But choosing the latter will hurt you whether you intended it to or not. So its best to walk the line.

VGJustice · May 10, 2006, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Wow... dang, Redly. Good leter.

I guess I'm one of the faceless masses. I didn't order the CE, and I'm not yet sure enough of my connection to try anything PvP related. But, there is something that bugs me.

During the FPE, the thing was a free-for-all. That just sounded fun, and I tried it a couple times. I swiftly discovered that I sucked badly at it, and instead decided to focus my efforts on other things during that limited time. I had seen the 12 v 12, and it was interesting. Something I could do just for the heck of it, like I used to do RA.

Now, I've found out that it requires forming a team (or a squad, as they are so called) of 4. I've been playing this game for over a year now. You dont have to explain to me that a party of four in a highly competative environment is going to cause some players to find it a little hard to find a group. Being that I play a Rager (one that has no TS, no Microphone, and can't interrupt because I played with my sword too long), I'm going to have almost no chance at ALL of playing this feature. And, if I do play, my team is more than likely going to be so focused on, not having fun, but WINNING at all costs, I may play it once to see what it's all about, and then never touch it again. I hate that stuff with a passion. It's always more fun to just HAVE fun. With this setup, you'd be more likely to end up tearing your hair out because of the stress and high demends, higher than if you were solo entering.

Basically, the 12 v 12 strikes me as another Hero's Ascent. A place where the inexperienced and the undesireable classes have little to no chance of playing, because the experienced and the desireable classes look down on everyone else. For me, Hero's Ascent is untouchable, mostly because of the high stress environment caused by players that have no goal beyond "Win". That's what this new setup of 12 v 12 reminds me of. That's not fun at all.

And, that's the real tragedy. It's a game that's not fun.

Red · May 10, 2006, 06:29 AM // 06:29

I apologize for this post; but I think it important to point out that I have edited my post (it's two posts up, see it?), and it's a rather large edit. Sorry for sneaking it in there.

Eviance · May 10, 2006, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by VGJustice

Basically, the 12 v 12 strikes me as another Hero's Ascent. A place where the inexperienced and the undesireable classes have little to no chance of playing, because the experienced and the desireable classes look down on everyone else. For me, Hero's Ascent is untouchable, mostly because of the high stress environment caused by players that have no goal beyond "Win". That's what this new setup of 12 v 12 reminds me of. That's not fun at all.

And, that's the real tragedy. It's a game that's not fun.

heheh you should try doing Halls with us... Yeah we get down if we are on a constant losing streak but if we continue to have fun we usually get further than if we are running a certain strict setup. We play to win but we don't live to win, ya know? It's nice to have a guild that is willing to take you into places like HA and play with ya (even if you have no skills, like some of our guildies). It's a game it's meant to be fun!

I used to do pug Tombs back when it was HoH just to fill the time in the day... I found some great groups (getting a 10% bonus is just the best thing evar!). I also found wierd groups that kicked me for not following the called target when I was the ONLY one other than the caller on that target -_-

Then it REALLY started getting rank obsessed and I stopped doing the PUG thing cause it was just too hard. I am almost a rank 2 ~YIPPIE~ but I will never get any higher without my guildies by my side and I am happy about that!

(If you think his letters are cool you should read his poetry and short stories -_- I don't know where he gets it from >_<)

akruan · May 10, 2006, 06:49 AM // 06:49

I believe you people are a lil too full of yourself. You paid 50 bucks for a game, yet you demand like if you paid 500 dollars for it. Really, out of thousands and thousands of players what makes you special just because you had some problems? Is like in real life. I mean if something goes wrong, would you send a letter to the leader of your country and expect him to respond and "talk" to you. No. You know why? Because then they will have to do it for everyone, which honestly is not possible. You all should be grateful and not complain so much Guild Wars is the type of game it is. I know for a fact of games that you pay for them every month after month and sometimes something goes wrong, and puff, no more games for you and honestly there goes hundreds of dollars down the drain. People pay 50 dollars for games that can be beat in 6 hours or less. If the game suck they don't get even a response from a game producer. You pay 50 dollars for a game that you can easily play for 600+ hours without even getting bored. I think you people should just swallow your complaints and be grateful of what you have and what has been given to you. You want a perfect world, and that's not possible, not even in a game.

UndeadRoadkill · May 10, 2006, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by akruan

I believe you people are a lil too full of yourself. You paid 50 bucks for a game, yet you demand like if you paid 500 dollars for it. Really, out of thousands and thousands of players what makes you special just because you had some problems? Is like in real life. I mean if something goes wrong, would you send a letter to the leader of your country and expect him to respond and "talk" to you. No. You know why? Because then they will have to do it for everyone, which honestly is not possible. You all should be grateful and not complain so much Guild Wars is the type of game it is. I know for a fact of games that you pay for them every month after month and sometimes something goes wrong, and puff, no more games for you and honestly there goes hundreds of dollars down the drain. People pay 50 dollars for games that can be beat in 6 hours or less. If the game suck they don't get even a response from a game producer. You pay 50 dollars for a game that you can easily play for 600+ hours without even getting bored. I think you people should just swallow your complaints and be grateful of what you have and what has been given to you. You want a perfect world, and that's not possible, not even in a game.

What a defeatist. I feel sorry for you.

akruan · May 10, 2006, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

What a defeatist. I feel sorry for you.

No, I'm grateful.

UndeadRoadkill · May 10, 2006, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by akruan

No, I'm grateful.

I'm not referring to whether or not you had any problems with Factions (VERY MANY people have), I'm referring to your attitude that you shouldn't strive to get what you want.

And call me old-fashioned, but I always thought it was the producer that should feel grateful to the consumer for giving them their money.

Red · May 10, 2006, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

And call me old-fashioned, but I always thought it was the producer that should feel grateful to the consumer for giving them their money.

Quoted for, if not truth, then at least interest.

~~~~~~~

I said it in my first letter, I said it in this one, and I'll say it again here:

I truly think that the GW Team is one of the (if not TeH) best teams out there. To continue making metaphors, Aku... I understand what you're saying. At the same time, it's considered very rude to tell someone in public about how their breath stinks; but you are expected to say something to your best friend about it. You are, in fact, more blatantly critical of people you can trust, than someone who is disconnected from you.

The fact that I can say these things to Guild Wars, and believe that they are read... that's somethin' else, ya know? So, please don't take my voice as purely negative. I paid for a Collector's Edition, as did my wife and her brother, and we are all playing through the PvE.

But, even if you marry an awesome wife who cooks supremely and brings her share of income to the household... would you settle for the relationship as-is for the rest of the decades you have together, or would you both seek to grow?

I reject stagnation; I choose growth.

Inde · May 10, 2006, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Well, a sit down chat with the players isn't all that uncommon. Stratics is known for their IRC chats with the devs and while yes they are moderated, submit questions beforehand, etc. they tend to be quite good. But then again, it depends on the willingness of the developers who participate.

What Gaile Gray does as far as the in-game chats is really unheard of in terms of frequency and length. And the devs are listening, while I'm sure there are unknown restraints on what they can say or do, on what information they can divulge (hey I'm sure there's aspects of the game they are unhappy with but are helpless to change at the current time) they just can't voice their full opinion and agree with us all. So it has to go through approval/mouth piece/PR (you get the point).

I'll send off a note to Gaile, I'll see if they would be willing to do this if we coordinate.

akruan · May 10, 2006, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

And call me old-fashioned, but I always thought it was the producer that should feel grateful to the consumer for giving them their money.

I'm new fashioned and I believe if I'm getting something that's worth more than what I paid for I should be happy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redly

But, even if you marry an awesome wife who cooks supremely and brings her share of income to the household... would you settle for the relationship as-is for the rest of the decades you have together, or would you both seek to grow?

I reject stagnation; I choose growth.

I completely agree with you about seeking "growth", but I wouldn't ask of her to be perfect, seeing as how I felt in love because of what she was. If the good things surpass the bad ones, I would just be reminded that nothing is perfect and that's what makes life interesting.

Reality is even though I believe it has it's problems I think it's one of the best teams and I know you agree with me like you just said. I just consider it a little unfair to be constantly calling out someone's flaws when clearly we have something that makes us really happy.

UndeadRoadkill · May 10, 2006, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

I'll send off a note to Gaile, I'll see if they would be willing to do this if we coordinate.

Thank you, I would really like to see a more official response to the concerns over alliance/elite missions. There isn't much space to develop detailed points in-game, and Gaile didn't seem to understand us in that last chat session.

Quote:

Originally Posted by akruan

I'm new fashioned and I believe if I'm getting something that's worth more than what I paid for I should be happy.

So because you haven't had any problems with it, you think that everyone should think and feel the same as you; and if they don't, they are completely unjustified?

Red · May 10, 2006, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

I'll send off a note to Gaile, I'll see if they would be willing to do this if we coordinate.

It's more than I had expected, so it's really quite an honour. Thank you, sir.

akruan · May 10, 2006, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

So because you haven't had any problems with it, you think that everyone should think and feel the same as you; and if they don't, they are completely unjustified?

I never said I haven't had any problems, and no; everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I meant that many people and keep in mind I'm not pointing at anyone in particular complain about stuff that when it really comes down to it, they get much more in return. People complained about the delay of the CE and they had all the right to, but if you are a real gamer, you know games get delayed all the time and 90% of those times you just get dissapointed when the game finally arrives. Guild Wars gave people a dragon! for waiting (letting my inner noob kid come out) how freakin 1337 is that? Anyways, people complain about the 12v12 arenas change, but they don't see that the meaning of Guild Wars is in fact strategy and getting better, not going in kamikaze style. People complain that they didn't had time for the special event. But I mean, it wouldn't be special if it didn't had a time limit. I don't hear people complaining to shopping malls when the miss the "black friday" specials.

Im not saying people shouldn't complain. Redly really make a smart and worthy letter, but then again I'm just trying to point out that even when bad things happens, we get much more good things in return. But that's just my opinion. I'm not trying to fight or anything, so I'm done

UndeadRoadkill · May 10, 2006, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by akruan

Im not saying people shouldn't complain. Redly really make a smart and worthy letter, but then again I'm just trying to point out that even when bad things happens, we get much more good things in return. But that's just my opinion. I'm not trying to fight or anything, so I'm done

Ok, yeah, there is whining about things that are tough breaks, and there are complaints made in the hopes of getting a change. There may be some things that they are just still working on, but sometimes they won't know there's a problem unless people tell them.

The OP and the people who signed are aiming for constructive criticism and communication, not a flame session.

Tijger · May 10, 2006, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

Ok, yeah, there is whining about things that are tough breaks, and there are complaints made in the hopes of getting a change. There may be some things that they are just still working on, but sometimes they won't know there's a problem unless people tell them.

The OP and the people who signed are aiming for constructive criticism and communication, not a flame session.

Indeed but has it occured to you that their wishes may not be my wishes?

Someone mentioned OSS software development earlier and while it has its successes it also 'enjoys' huge fragmentation exactly because everyone has different wishes, wants, needs and expectations.

Personally I think Anet does quite enough listening to the players, we wont always like/love what they will end up offering us but at the end of the day this is Anet's product and not ours.

Eviance · May 10, 2006, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

Ok, yeah, there is whining about things that are tough breaks, and there are complaints made in the hopes of getting a change. There may be some things that they are just still working on, but sometimes they won't know there's a problem unless people tell them.

The OP and the people who signed are aiming for constructive criticism and communication, not a flame session.

Yeah someone came into the 12 v 12 ruined thread and posted how we were all idiots for complaining and such cause no one ever listens.

I explained that we know for a fact that they are reading what we write, it's up to them as to whether they take what we say and run with it or not. But sitting back and not saying anything gets you nowhere.

I will agree and openly admit that I myself tend to lose my cool with people like that in threads. Or heck in any thread where I don't feel like a certain aspect is fair to all... If there is an IRC chat I may or may not be involved... I know it will irk Redly but I will probably stand over his shoulder and read and then pace and then probably do some cussing, but so long as I am not at that keyboard I will have a chance to cool down and think with a more level head than I usually do.
It's been told time and again, how if you email GW with a suggestion or comment they tell you to take it to one of the fansites. GWG is one of the most open ones there is! I saw a poster who came over from another board because she wasn't aloud to speak her mind and got in trouble for it. I see that while GWG tries to keep huge uproars from happening they are the best at letting us speak our minds usually.
While this is a good thing, it's also a bad thing sometimes for the Devs who actually have to come and sift through all of it.
It's a new chapter: check
It's going to have some bugs: check
They cannot make everyone happy: check
We all understand this but when majority is not so happy it gets kinda ugly around here and in GW itself. I understand that they are trying their best, but lack of communication with the fans really messed things up this past round and those of us who have faith in the GW team want to see that something like that doesn't happen in the future.

We want to find new and better ways to get things across and be a part of this growing company - if you care about something you try to make the best that you can out of it, but we all understand that perfection will never be achieved. However that doesn't mean we should just give up and be greatful, not when we know that there is more potential to be had there!

I admit it, I don't like Factions (it's not the bugs) - but I am still playing it because I have a guild with Redly that depends on us. They are friends and family to us and if we can somehow make a change here or there for the better of our family and for the better of others, including GW itself - we are gonna try... I am also still playing because I have faith in the GW team. I have faith that they hear us and will in someway do what they can to make things better for all involved! I hold onto that faith as we await the next chapter as I am sure many others do..

There is nothing wrong with wanting to improve and there is always room for improvement in anything! Ya know one thing that would probably set at least half if not 80% of the angry mob to shut up - A simple statement that says: "We know you want some changes but we need to work out the kinks and bugs to what is already there before we can really think about change. This will take some time but we beg you to be patient and understanding that we do care, but we are doing the best we can as fast as we can."

Shoot that would be enough for me - and yes they have said this in other ways but many have missed it. When they have events or big news or changes in the air - post it on their website.

Inde sweetie is there nothing that can be done for the search button on this bugger? >_> I hate it when my subscriptions pretend to go through only to find out 24hrs later that I was wrong... *sighs* searching for my bids is hard work =P

Anyways that is also a lot of the reason that people miss some of the announcements - they are either in Gaile Gray chat logs (which I didn't find till 3wks of being on this board) or somewhere burried on page 4502750275.6 >_> of one of the 10 forums ya got running in here (which for the normal person on here is easy to figure out, but new people are SoL). More accessable information I guess is what I am looking for.

hmmm anywyas that is all for my rambles it's bedtime.

michaeldt · May 10, 2006, 11:12 AM // 11:12

I think the OP pretty much sums things up. Not about communication, but about the GW community. Give them a hand and they want the whole arm.

Anet do a lot more than most developers in terms of communication. What people want now is some type of interactive chat? What next, a place on the design team for evey fan?

When a question is asked about something, there are 3 possible responses.
1. Yes
2. Maybe
3. No.

Currently, we get 2. What many people (note: many, not all, not most, not everyone, just many) want is 1.

People are upset because we get a lot of 2. So they want more communication. If you got that and the communication was simply, 3., would that make you happy? I'm guessing it would simply create a lot more anger.

Maybe, or "soon, just not right now" are the best ANET can do really. If they say no, people will be upset. If they say 1, but later find out it's not possible, could be delayed etc., then people will be upset.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. So they walk the middle line. The best course of action. Because it allows them to say, we know you want it, but we can't promise anything. Then they can take the time to decide and plan. If they said yes to an idea rather than maybe, the next question would be when, because Yes isn't enough, is it?. Once people get yes, next they will want when. And when they say soon, rather than a definate time, people will get upset about lack of communication, again.

As for areas where people feel a lack of response, remember how many suggestions get posted all the time. It takes a lot to read through. And get answers for. That's someone's time. A paid employees time. Gw has no monthly fees, so it's income is based off of added paid-for content. They have to justify every expense they make and unless reading through and responding to thousands upon thousands of posts is going to increase income sufficiently as to justify the work, it's not going to happen.

And for those questions some feel are "top-of-the-list", you might be asking for an answer where an answer currently does not exist.

I think many people expect a lot from Anet who already give a lot.

But that's just my opinion.

Red · May 10, 2006, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaeldt

~truth, with excerpts~

When a question is asked about something, there are 3 possible responses. 1. Yes, 2. Maybe, 3. No. Currently, we get 2. What many people (note: many, not all, not most, not everyone, just many) want is 1.

People are upset because we get a lot of 2. So they want more communication. If you got that and the communication was simply, 3., would that make you happy? I'm guessing it would simply create a lot more anger.

Gw has no monthly fees, so it's income is based off of added paid-for content. They have to justify every expense they make and unless reading through and responding to thousands upon thousands of posts is going to increase income sufficiently as to justify the work, it's not going to happen.

I think it's important to keep this in mind. Michael raises some good points; I've just apparently arrived at a different final answer than he has.

So sorry, but we do not "get a lot of 2". Part of my issue is that we aren't hearing much from the team. Obvious examples include 12v12 and the Elite Missions. Gaile gives us 3 lines of real reasons or defenses, and that's it. 12v12 was altered from FPE, she said, to allow for more tactics--and that was all she said, while recognizing the communication issues. But, did they not see the way teams could come together in the FPE? Or, have they not realized that even with a chat channel for teams in those battles, monks are STILL unable to effectively heal beyond their 4/4 party?

We don't know.

If we got a No answer, at least we'd know that this is how it would remain; or that they intend to fix the chat issues but have no intention of restoring the 12-man party bar.

But, we don't know.

And, in reference to your comment about how they have to KNOW that it's in their best interests to communicate with players...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stabber

This was a very illuminating chatlog with Gaile. Thanks. It has crystallized my decision about purchasing the next installment of GW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crisis54

Now, I bought this game after playing the FPE. I was on the fence about buying it, but after playing the 12 v 12, I decided to buy it.....

Thanks for fooling me Anet. I hope you're happy. 12 v 12 in the FPE was the deciding factor for me buying this game. I WON'T be fooled again. I really hope this gets patched, otherwise I will NOT be purchasing the next chapter. You're lucky I can't return the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matsumi

kind of glad I didn't buy it yet, I'm still waiting for more reports on what it's actually like, or if there will be any developments on it. For now, I'm still just playing prophecies, and enjoying the scrawny dance assassins and some ritualists that come over from time to time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echis (guildmate of mine, so I can vouch for his seriousness here)

the sole reason i bought factions was for the alliance battles. if anet doesnt get it's act in gear about changing stuff like this (selling us on one point, then changing it before we buy it with 0 warnings. see the "skill > time played" promise, the "no grind" promise, and the 12v12 implications) then they will have lost any future sales to me. the time it takes to unlock a good ammount of skills has already lost them a few of my friends.

GG.