Curse

Jedediah Strong · May 15, 2006, 02:08 PM // 14:08

<Yawn>

If you like the game play it.

If you don't like the game, don't play it.

If you like the game AND decide to continue to play it....still never hurts to push back from the 'ole 'puter every once in awhile, go outside, and get some sun.

It's just a game guys. Just a game. Real life beckons.

GloryFox · May 15, 2006, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Ok .... I happen to know somthing of contract law and this and your post is serious. What we have here is a UCC complaint that seeks remedy and relief. Under contract law and the laws that govern all busniess practaces in the US Anet will have to respond. Its a matter of contract law and busniess law. No US company is above that law and thoes laws no matter the situation. Either it be large or small.

michaeldt · May 15, 2006, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Advocate

Well met,

I am going to send my complaint to their postal address however I am unhappy with international postage charge I will have to pay to do so but I can wholly imagine they would employ a time consuming process like postage to resolve issues (like 99.99% of all other companies). Further to this it clearly does not state on their web site that for situations like this you need to post stuff to them, and again i refer to the support responce of posting it on forums for the dev to read. They are, again, failing to provide adequate information.

Ok. First, lets get this clear since you didn't appear to understand my other post. It clearly states on their site that:

Quote:

Account Issues, Technical Support, Game Bugs, and reports of cheats, hacks, exploits and in-game misbehavior and abuse.

should be directed to http://support.guildwars.com

It does not say that that address is for issues regarding your purchase. So do not blame Anet that you were directed by support to a fansite for submitting a query wholly unrelated to what they are providing support for. Secondly, how do you contact any business that you purchased a product from? You look up their address and you send them a letter. If a company wishes to provide email or telephone support, then they may do so.

Now, if you are from the UK: If you have an issue with your purchased product, you SHOULD be taking this up with the retailer you purchased it from.

To quote from www.adviceguide.org.uk

Quote:

If you buy goods from a trader and they are not of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose or don't match their description, the trader will probably have to put things right. It is the trader who is responsible for this, and not the manufacturer.

If you live elsewhere in Europe, this may differ depending on your location. I suggest you look into the law of your country if you wish to resolve the issue legally.

Ruby Lightheart · May 15, 2006, 02:59 PM // 14:59

While I am not happy that I cannot bring my asassin into Tyria missions, I do kinda understand whynot. the Cantha toons are usually level 18-20 when they get the quest that takes them to Tyria. Why would you wanna do the Tyria beginner missions? Really makes no sense.

Also Cantha storyline takes place After the Tyria storyline..so it really dont make sense for a Cantha character to participate in the Tyria storyline missions. But the Cantha characters do have limited access to some of the non storylline related quests on Tyria. As for the Tyria characters going to Cantha..well they shouldnt have access to the beginner missions. Those in essence are the Cantha' characters early years at the monestary before teh plague takes hold. You get explosed early to the Crimson Skull and an increased Naga precence but it isnt really till you get to Minister Cho's estate that you become involved in the plague storyline. And keeping inline with the crossover storyline where Mhenlo brings help with him from Tyria...it just dont make sense for Tyria characters to have access to the early Cantha misisons and quests.

My main issue about content is the elite missions. 99,9% of us will never see that content. I am very unhappy with that 2 guilds can control who gets access to the elite missions.

Stockholm · May 15, 2006, 03:24 PM // 15:24

It Clearly states on the GW box that NCSoft Corporation is the one you have done bussines with when you purchas the game, so they are the ones to contact, ArenaNet is only the developers, not the manufactuer or the seller.

If you want to take legal acction I would look at Class Actions taken against companies like Microsoft in your country and see how the court's judge in does cases, and go from there.

demon dantes · May 15, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

this is a problem that we all know will never get resolved(EVER). there have been many things talked about between players and anet and we have always been told what they want us to hear. and when the time comes it s never what they said it would b like lol. take for instance tyria is a stand alone game everyone paid money for that then along comes cantha which as well is a stand alone game. every 6 months by anets standards a new game was to be released. so by this tyria will be the largets of all games because it took them a year to make a new game. now when u ask anet y make smaller games and charge the same price instead of charging us a lesser price for an exspansion the answer we get is well........ honestlly this will be the last gw game i will buy if in fact 6 months from factions a new game comes out with the same price. not only that if in fact a new game comes out every 6 mnths i think they are a lil late on adding a new section to the factions game. either that or am i to beleive that say chapter 3 comes out r they still going to b updating factions lol. and last but not least lets take the word stand alone if u use it as a street term it would be that u were standing o the street all alone. so in game words the game is it own game. now i understand that if u bought factions u could play both and if u didn t buy factions u were stuck in tyria but. all of tyria was changed to coinside with cantha y? that would mean they were linked in some way and it is not what we were told about the game. they were supposed to b stand alone games. why did they do it. lol here we go good ole PVP. now u would sacrafice pve players havin a meaningfull game so that u could do as u always do. do nothing but worry about pvp. you apperantlly didn t care about your pvp players and everything you ever change or talk about has to do with pvp. buyers bewre chapter 3 or 4 will b a pvp based not pve game and they will tell us buy our game there will b stuff for you to do. ANETS FAVORITE WORDS-"TRUST US"

Josh · May 15, 2006, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeroclown

While I would tend to agree with the op I must say I think its all a matter of interpetation

This is quote from the guildwars site:

I would ask of you where in there does it say "All Content". It dosn't, and while you might have access to all areas of a map, you may not have access to all content. Though that is vile water to tred in.

I would imagine that it would be more correct for the consumer to believe that as an owner of both factions and prophicies you should be entitled to full content access with all characters. I must however say I am of the feeling that since Our characters come from cantha they are unaware of the plight that be fell ascalon, and as such your quest and story line start in the Lions gate and not in old ascalon.

RE: Auction houses

This was not something that was to be officially added to chapter 2. Its been discussed about a thousand times and all leads point to such things coming in the interm of Ch2 and 3.

Where does it say you have partial or minor access to content of Prophecies?

axe · May 15, 2006, 03:36 PM // 15:36

I would be happy if they just brought the beloved Griffon farm back, when they took that out I wanted to call the police.

If I had a HOD sword before they added it back I WOULD have called the police on Anet.

Seriously though the OP has some good points in here, I am too casual a gamer to be effected that much by it. I have HIGH hopes for Factions to become tweeked and fixed up and even new content added to make it on par with Chapter 1.

We have to be patient but in the meantime we should be posting the things we like/dislike about the product because fact of the matter is Anet DOES listen to its customers, look at the Mini Dragon that was a direct result of voicing peoples opinions.

Advocate · May 15, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

michaeldt - yep you are right about trading standards and the trader being the one to complain to, I have sent them an e-mail to see what they have to say about it but since I really just want an answer as to why one thing was said and anything done without any explaination I dont think they are going to be able to help, but let no-one say I have not followed the proper steps.

With regards to Support, my first question to them (that which they responded to) was a gameplay issue since to all intents and purposes, my Assassin should have been able to take quests prior to Lions Arch, I wrote to them asking why I could not. Since the game does not perform as I expected I asked support what was wrong and why. My apologies for not getting that across in the OP or later comments.

As a point of interest I have also sent an e-mail to NCSoft to see what they make of the whole thing. Again, I struggled to see where exactly I should it.

Once more I would like to state that I do not want to take legal action, it is a petty matter I agree that will be resolved by a simple 'we did this because...' a sorry for the confusion and frustration would not go a miss either.

sleazeh · May 15, 2006, 05:35 PM // 17:35

I think that anyone who is so petulant and childish as to threaten "lawsuits" over an inability to get a PvE explorer title on a particular character would be most welcome to leave the game and community as per their juvenile ultimatums. It's laughable, really.

I mean...seriously...it's just a title on a video game character. A title which has been in existence for all of 3 weeks, and which signifies nothing in the grand scheme of things. The proliferation of threads like these make me think of children who hold their breath until they get want they want.

I'm sure Gaille provided the best information she had at the time, and if the situation changed over time...well that's just how things go, as anyone would know who's been involved in a project of this magnitude with so many variables and logistical concerns. Conspiracy theories? Haha.

GW is very much a work in progress, and will evolve over time. Like all large projects, ther will be bugs, which will be addressed, and there may be changes in game mechanics as we "playtest" the product. That's why this game is so superior to many others - continuing support, refinement, and evolution. It's not a static condition.
I for one applaud Anet for a fantastic product and fine support (all things considered) which has entertained me for literally thousands of hours.

To those who have such vitriolic and self-centred demands which revolve around an in-game character's ability to run around "ascalon"...I echo the sentiment of an above poster: might be time to take a deep breath and go outside for a bit to get some perpsective.

If you want to threaten lawsuits and boycotts, at least have them relate to something of actual social importance. If you have nothing else in your life to spend your energy and concern on rather than issues like this....might want to read the newspaper once in a while. There's lots of things that warrant outrage.

Can't be a Tyrian Grand Master Explorer on your Assassin?....so? whats the big deal?

Again: thanks and well done to the entire Anet team.

My 2 cents.

Rayne Nightfyre · May 15, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

*Tries to sort through all the biased hate toward A-Net*...

Truthfully, here's what I see. They definitely, without a doubt implied that regardless of where your character was born, your content-access would not differ. And as we see in the release, that's hardly the case. I'll be nice and not call it lying, but it's sure a direct change of plans.

My main character is my Mesmer, of course, and I try to get as much as you possibly can get out of the game with a single character. Not being able to enter those two missions on the Shing Jea island is not right. (Same goes for not being able to access the first 7 Tyrian missions with a Canthan character).

I've tried to keep a positive attitude toward ArenaNet's efforts to please the Guild Wars community.They were -and still are- the makers of an amazing and addicting game. I've always said I have faith they'll do the right thing. It hurts saying this, but honestly that faith has taken a considerable blow after seeing the outworking of Chapter 2's gameplay.

nyxnemesis · May 15, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Someone mentioned this earlier, and I think it's a good point. Many times in Tyria, people go back and do missions they skipped or do them again to get the bonus, so there are lots of people that play the game out of order from the storyline, and lots of people with high levels in a low level area.

I agree with the suggestion that the missions at least be open to all so that you can get a title if you want. They already blocked the early skills quests, so that could be a good compromise on Anet's part. Someone compared Shing Jea to presearing, which it sort of is, EXCEPT presearing didn't have missions that you were required to complete--it was all quests.

Finally, I'm still glad I merged the accounts. I have characters I love to play from Prophecies that I had stopped playing because I had done almost everything with them, so at least I have a reason to play them now. But, I will agree that if Chapter 3 has as little content as Chapter 2, they ought to make the price a little cheaper than the original. I'm not one of those people that are threatening a boycott, but if they lowered the price a bit, I'd be more inclined to buy the new one. $50 is a bit much for what we got.

Njall · May 15, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Because a title is so important? Be sensible here.

I agree.. titles are not important.. so I suggest that all fame points, ranks and emotes should be reset.. after all it's not more important than a title.

Quote:

I can understand raising complaints if a mission doesn't work, or your character is locked out of a new area

Well I complain because my character is locked out of Minister's cho estate, Ran Musu garden and Zen Daijun and because the 2 Shing Jea missions don't work for this character

felinette · May 15, 2006, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyxnemesis

Someone mentioned this earlier, and I think it's a good point. Many times in Tyria, people go back and do missions they skipped or do them again to get the bonus, so there are lots of people that play the game out of order from the storyline, and lots of people with high levels in a low level area.

Also that players go back to Ascalon and Kryta when they shouldn't be able to, if you follow the storyline.

Quote:

Finally, I'm still glad I merged the accounts.

Me too. It gives my Prophecies characters more to do. More importantly, it gives my Canthan characters more to do when they complete the Canthan storyline and quests. Otherwise, there would be nothing for them afterwards. And it allows rits and sins to play some of the Prophecies content. Would have been nice if they could play all of it (including pre-searing if you could create rits and sins for Prophecies), but that's another issue.

Quote:

But, I will agree that if Chapter 3 has as little content as Chapter 2, they ought to make the price a little cheaper than the original. I'm not one of those people that are threatening a boycott, but if they lowered the price a bit, I'd be more inclined to buy the new one. $50 is a bit much for what we got.

I disagree. I've paid $50 for games that turned out to last 8-10 hours. It's not the length of the game that counts--it's the quality of the game. I'm more interested in the quality of the gameplay and the direction the game is taking, particularly in relation to PvE.

Athis Strider · May 16, 2006, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by salaboB

If you bought a non-hybrid car advertised as getting 90 miles per gallon (And a comparable price with other cars of the same year), but it only got 60 miles per gallon would that be okay? After all, it's still better than all the other cars that aren't hybrid out there even if it doesn't live up to what was promised. You'd have definately gotten your money's worth out of it.

Of course it would be ok. It's still getting better gas mileage than most but, "it's paid for" I mean come on, who wants monthly payments lol.

The Great Al · May 16, 2006, 12:25 AM // 00:25

The only thing that this thread will probably get accomplished is getting Gail in trouble for giving out a bit of false information, and then if she gets in trouble and Anet doesnt let her talk to us anymore, then we've lost our source of information on current and future GW events/expansion packs/happenings. So what if one little bit of information was wrong? If Gail said something like "in chapter 2, you get 5 new professions!" then yes, that is a blatant lie. This is something so small and stupid, it's BETTER that you cant take your uber 1337 character to like, ascalon...the only reason people do it is to show off their 15k armor to the noobs, and run guildmates through the game. Lion's arch is a perfect cutoff place, as is the place in the Factions map (can't remember the name). Yes, I guess you could say we were 'misled', but it was something so small and insignificant that it shouldn't be a big deal.

samifly · May 16, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

I'm annoyed that I cant help guildies. Alot of my time is spent helping other peoples characters thru missons. I dont have a warrior right now, so I was planning to make a canthan one.
I can forsee when someone asks *Need help with frost gate, a tank please if you got one

* and I wont be able to help cause some arbitrary rule.

Seriously, why make a canthan core profession player when you'll miss out on 7 missions, instead of the 3 you miss out on as a tyrian.

Juguard · May 16, 2006, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by samifly

I'm annoyed that I cant help guildies. Alot of my time is spent helping other peoples characters thru missons. I dont have a warrior right now, so I was planning to make a canthan one.
I can forsee when someone asks *Need help with frost gate, a tank please if you got one

* and I wont be able to help cause some arbitrary rule.

Seriously, why make a canthan core profession player when you'll miss out on 7 missions, instead of the 3 you miss out on as a tyrian.

you see, thats a problem. We can't make Core assassins or ritualists in Tyria. And why not?

Bottom line, they made a new game, not an expantion, and I hate them for that. Just think about what will happen if WOW:Burning Crusade does the same thing to WOW.

Something will happen soon, I don't see it going long like this.

Siren · May 16, 2006, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Looks like my previous reply got deleted. Doesn't make any sense to delete posts like that, especially considering my assessments, while a bit offensive, were entirely accurate, because 90% of the population here really do not step back and think things through before acting. But whatever. I guess I have to be completely proper and polite from now on, and not use language that explicitly shows how obviously trite and naive certain reactions are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njall

I agree.. titles are not important.. so I suggest that all fame points, ranks and emotes should be reset.. after all it's not more important than a title.

I wouldn't mind having a fame and rank reset, honestly. While I understand and to a certain extent, respect, the logic behind the pro-fame/rank argument ("fame/rank demonstrates a level of experience"), ultimately, if a Rank 0 or 1 player knows what they're doing, they can perform just fine. It's been said time and time again, but it's very true. Rank does not always equal skill.

So for the most part, despite how many "hardcore" PvPers rip my throat out for it, Fame and Rank are completely meaningless.

Same thing goes for most of the "cosmetic" titles in this game, including any ones we find in PvE. Tyrian Explorer means nothing. Protector of Cantha means nothing. They're all just a bunch of carrots and I see no purpose for them other than completists (I'm a bit of a completist myself, but I have limits) or those who are driven by some bizarre childish desire to have everything in the game (Gotta catch'em all, perhaps?). And surprisingly, there are differences between the two. Completists like to be thorough. The latter, however, echo more of the Evercrack mentality.

And the Evercrack mentality--or at least, the lameness of it--is all I'm seeing in the OP's argument. Yes, disappointment sucks. Yes, poorly written press releases suck. Yes, having an entire Assassin Death's Charge strategy ruined because Shadow Stepping doesn't work how you'd hoped...sucks.

But you know what you do when that kind of stuff happens? You shrug your shoulders, go "Oh well" and move on. Craptacular press releases happen all the time, nearly everywhere you go. Accidental misinformation happens all the time. It's just the nature of business, though honestly, I think the misinformation we get from ANet is far more accidental than say, Sony regarding the PS3. Or even more accidental than Peter Molyneux's ravings about how Fable was going to shock and awe us.

Sony and Molyneux make major mistakes when it comes to keeping the customers informed. The PS3's craptacular nature is proof of that. Sony was touting the thing like the end-all, be-all of gaming...but what did we get at E3? Pre-rendered video, a POS controller that's clearly a lame imitation of the Wiimote with a small fraction of the cool and useful functionality, and a price-tag that's simply absurd, even in light of hearing "expensive" from Sony execs months prior.

That's the kind of stuff that companies need to get beaten up for, because those are major problems with their marketing departments.

This thing, however? It's one press release that wasn't written clearly. Big deal. We've seen stuff far worse than that from much larger companies. Anyone who's played Star Wars Galaxies within the past 2 years can attest to that. You want to see a company that doesn't know anything of how to run a game, or design a working system? Check out SOE.

Oh, and another thing I should mention...press releases will never, ever be considered binding contracts by any respectable law firms, courts, gaming companies, or the fanbases. So any implication that ANet is in trouble because they violated a contract...is absolute rubbish.

Quote:

Well I complain because my character is locked out of Minister's cho estate, Ran Musu garden and Zen Daijun and because the 2 Shing Jea missions don't work for this character

Yeah, the locked gates on Shing Jea Island suck. But only because I know I really don't care to do those missions with my native Canthan characters. Plus the Henchies are absolutely dreadful, and perform miserably most of the time, especially in the missions. Being able to bypass them would be very nice.

And I still can't see why anyone would want to bring their Tyrian characters to Shing Jea Island. Those missions are starter missions. And no offense to the Devs, but those missions are boring as hell the first time through.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyxnemesis

Someone compared Shing Jea to presearing, which it sort of is, EXCEPT presearing didn't have missions that you were required to complete--it was all quests.

I compared it to Pre-Searing only on the grounds that both were the training levels for their respective Chapters.

But even then, I think most people would agree that the actual Pre-Searing of Prophecies didn't prepare players at all for anything, because it was too easy.

After all, how many of us were utterly shocked at the "difficulty" of Post-Searing Ascalon? How many of us died numerous times by things as simple as Devourers or Stone Elementals? Remember when Charr were frigging hard?

Post-Searing Ascalon was always the first actual training the players had, because it more closely reflected the learning curve and difficulty we were going to experience.

Shing Jea Island is exactly similar. We're fighting level 15 monsters while exploring Shing Jea Island, for crying out loud. At what point in Prophecies did we see level 15s? Apart from a random boss here and there, the first real level 15 enemies in Prophecies appeared around Gates of Kryta...which is a step away from LA, which is where "Post-Shing" Canthans first arrive in Kryta...coincidence?

I don't think so. Shing Jea and the Canthan LZ have been very carefully constructed. Canthans have already had their training missions. They don't need Northern Wall. They don't need Fort Ranik. They don't need Frost Gate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyxnemesis

Finally, I'm still glad I merged the accounts.

ABSOLUTELY. Merging the accounts is a fantastic idea, because I'm bringing my Necro through Cantha now, and FoC spiking any enemy NPC that decides to pick a fight. It's gorgeous. I'm advancing through the game faster with Jade+Henchies than I am with my Assassin+Henchies/PUGs. lol

And let's not forget that Necro+Prophecies skills+Factions skills=fecking scary. ^_^

Str0b0 · May 16, 2006, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Ok .... I happen to know somthing of contract law and this and your post is serious. What we have here is a UCC complaint that seeks remedy and relief. Under contract law and the laws that govern all busniess practaces in the US Anet will have to respond. Its a matter of contract law and busniess law. No US company is above that law and thoes laws no matter the situation. Either it be large or small.

I see no breach of contract here especially if you are posting in regards to the OP. The 6x100% content thing was never an official statement of ANet. It was just some fuzzy math used for ease of illustration and that hardly constitutes a binding contract no matter what country your from. It's no different than if I said "I'll give you a bunch of this thing" and then when I hand you some random number constituting in my mind a bunch you say it isn't what we agreed upon. Now as for full map access well that's open to intepretation. Technically speaking you have full access to all areas of the map...that is all named instanced areas you can get into. Can you do all the missions in those areas? No but you can get there so in the most technical of senses yes you do have full access to all areas of the map. Perhaps it is simple a matter of misinterpretation and not a direct attempt to mislead the consumer, which is what any litigator worth his salt will argue in the courtroom. Access to all factions content is a sticking point with the barred missions but also, technically they never said you would have access to all factions content with all your characters. If you link the accounts you do have access to all factions content....with your factions characters. Again a technicality but in the world of contract law the wording is the key. Also as far as contracts go I think you would have a hard time proving than an FAQ that was not approved by the legal department of Anet constitutes a binding contract with the consumer. At best it is a statement of intent. All in all this would be a pretty flimsy action that I doubt would even be worth the court costs to pursue in litigation. The most you could sue for is the cost of the software. Yay you got 50 bucks back and now you gotta pay for court costs too. So you're now a couple thousand in the hole, depending on whether ANet wants to let their litigators play around, but you would be ahead in principle I suppose. There are no inherent damages involved even if the court ruled that the FAQ constitued a binding legal agreement between the customer and Anet. Even in our litigious society I think you would be hard pressed to prove that you were in some way harmed beyond the loss of the initial purchase of the software. A class action is a way to go but that also costs money and without additional damages to sue for what you end up with, after court costs and the litigator's cut, is probably less than 5 bucks a person. I know that if I had to sit on the jury for this I'd have to find them free from any liability based simply on the arguments I've posted here, which I admit are flimsy and are based on technicalities and semantics but in contract law that's all it takes.