Curse

Granamyr · May 02, 2006, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Farming would be fine if people would stop demanding massive amounts of gold for items they farmed in the first place!

You should be praising farmers for increasing the supply and thus driving the price down. Examples: Firey Dragon Sword, Fur Squares, Ectoplasm, Shards, Storm Bows, All Dyes, All Runes, etc, etc

Anything that was once rare cost 10x more than it does now and you have the farmers to thank for that. The results would be even more apparent had ANet actually delivered on a promise they've made since Beta, a standardized buying/selling system (read auction house).

Quote:

Anet has said before that they don't mind farming, what they don't like is the BOTS. that's the reason the griffons were nerfed...

ANet speaks out of both sides of its mouth. The PR side blabs about how they don't mind farmers while the developers institute anti-farming attributes to this game with every update. If I wanted to sum up ANet's true stance, I'd look at what they do and not at what they say.

Quote:

Then again professional farmers are the only ones that really screw things up.

Either no one screws this game up or everyone does.

One person's play-style will invariably conflict with another person's play-style and as they both work towards their separate goals, they will eventually influence each other. The most direct example I could give would be any PvP arena. I want you dead and you want me dead.....it's competition and whoever wins "screws things up" (to whatever degree) for the person that loses. You can take that example and apply the concept to any group be it farmers, bots, ebay buyers, ebay sellers, purists, guilds, role players, elitists, newbies, cartographers, quest junkies, forum posters, IWAY Builds, PvP'ers, PvE'ers, etc, etc.

I try to take the attitude that no one screws this game up and I can control my own gaming destiny. I can't say I'm always successful and I won't hide the fact that I despise ANet for many of their blunders but in every case, the community has stepped up and provided ways for me to still play this game the way I want to.

To sum up, it's hypocritical to accuse one group of players of ruining the game or even the economy. Everyone that plays has an impact on this game and it affects some people positively and some people negatively. Friend/Ignore, Turn Chat On/Turn Chat Off, Guild/PUG, Solo/Group......life is full of toggles so use them to keep yourself relatively happy.

Count to Potato · May 02, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

I made 8k from three quests and a mission, so u really dont need to farm

(8k from no golds)

EternalTempest · May 02, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count to Potato

I made 8k from three quests and a mission, so u really dont need to farm

(8k from no golds)

I can see farming for rune unlocks, weapon mod unlocks, and the exclusive perfect gold vanity items and other vanity items, such as Black Dye and such. I do love the fact that they have altered drops on high price items (absorb / vigor rune's) to lower the price and given us more money across the board.

Griff Mon · May 02, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

How anyone can say farming is not built-in as a necessity of this game is beyond me.

Example: FoW armour - 4 pieces. 105 Obsidian Shards, 105 Globs of Ecto and other stuff for a four-piece set. Five Piece is 120 of each.

How can you amass this material? Farm FoW 75-100 times. Underworld 100+ times if not more. Plus 60K in cash, and another 10K of various materials.

The other option is to buy the shards and ecto which would be about 700-900K depending on the prices. You can only get this amount of cash by farming in other areas,or violating the User Agreement by buying gold off of Ebay. The only other option is to have a very generous in-game benefactor who gives you bundles of gold.

If you are happy with Drok's armour and what drops for you, then you can get by without farming, but if you want any of the "special" stuff, then farming is one of the few options to get it.

rancidgoat · May 02, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

without us 55's the merch's wouldnt have anything to sell to all of you.

Witchblade · May 02, 2006, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count to Potato

I made 8k from three quests and a mission, so u really dont need to farm

(8k from no golds)

lol, great

Str0b0 · May 02, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count to Potato

I made 8k from three quests and a mission, so u really dont need to farm

(8k from no golds)

I'm glad you are happy with this but for high end stuff that's chump change. There are 15 missions and maybe 30 something quests in this game. Take out cost of skill purchasing and the cost of competitive weapon and armor upgrades, since running is nearly impossible now, and you haven't made enough money to even think about putting anything towards any of the real end game stuff. If you want the high end stuff then you need to figure out a way to turn some real cash. That's the bottom line on that.

Sai Rith · May 13, 2006, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Anet Hates Farmers!everyone Knows That, So They Made Factions Practically Unfarmable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gwenhywar · May 13, 2006, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowman Artemis

The point of the game is NOT farming.

LOL - and you're so wrong. Just look at what's holding Cavalon, and you'll realize that the whole point of Factions is FARMING (very saddly ...). Just not 55 monk or necro farming, but faction farming. If the top Luxon guild is only top because they farm supply runs all day long, what other questions one should have about what Factions is about?

Vermilion · May 13, 2006, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granamyr

ANet speaks out of both sides of its mouth. The PR side blabs about how they don't mind farmers while the developers institute anti-farming attributes to this game with every update. If I wanted to sum up ANet's true stance, I'd look at what they do and not at what they say.

"Do as I say, not as I do."

I felt it was appropriate..anyway..

Quote:

Anet Hates Farmers!everyone Knows That, So They Made Factions Practically Unfarmable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe, but I think they just wanted the players to play the game. All of it..every mission..everytime you make a character.

Okay, I don't know what I'm talking about..all I know is..I am glad I have prophecies. thats because there are plenty of places to farm there, and I don't need to find places to farm in GW:F. (although I will anyway)

samifly · May 13, 2006, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theos

Is there even a point to farm anymore? I ran out of Kainagen with henchies and got enough purples, and even golds, to really disuade me from 55 Mesmering the Am Fah or Jades :P

I'm having to farm to afford all my skills, not to mention armor.

Manic Smile · May 13, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

DIE 55 DIE

farming ftl...

Does-it-Matter · May 13, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Furthermore, what is the end game for GW? In prophecies you could get to the more difficult missions and gain access to FoW and UW. Those areas are really just for farming. They just require unique builds (55, 5 man oro, etc.) or skilled teams. The only real point to doing those areas was to farm though.

Yes, I'm sure when ANet was in the planning room, looking at drawing boards, the power point presentation associated with the meeting was entitled "New Places for the Players to Farm."

UW, FoW, SF, Tombs, etc... These are "High-End" missions. Call them proving grounds, bragging rights or whatever you desire. They were made for people who've already beaten the storyline (i.e. Titan-related quests), progressed sufficiently far through the game (i.e. the Ascended requirement for UW/FoW) or have wandered off the beaten path a little bit, most likely after beating the game (i.e. SF).

These are areas that were originally concieved to be hard. Places were the "best" can go through and see how far they get.

But, as we're seeing with the "Canthan Elite Missions" it seems everyone is only concered with monitary and materialistic rewards. Give me money. Give me gold drops. Blah. Blah. Blah. I've beaten the hardest area the game has to offer, but that's not important to me. I want physical items to get rich/flaunt about. Does that essentially sum up those threads?

Sure the "challenge" got removed as soon as someone found out a build that took advantage of the lack of a certain skill.
-How hard is it to take a SS/SV Necro and a 55-Monk into UW? Not very.
-How hard was it to Oro-Farm with the gear trick?
-How hard was it to clear the FoW with the book trick?

Some of these ANet addressed and fixed. Some they really can't without hurting the "full party" groups as well. With as many skills, professions, items, runes and armor combos availible it is inconcievable for ANet to pre-release address every possible exploit. So when the "challenge" is removed, all people see is "high-end" farming.

Quote:

This game is SORT OF an MMO. Everyone likes to play it their own way. If people want to farm then more power to them. I fail to see a problem with it; it really isn't hurting anyone.

I believe the common retort to that is: "Yes, yes in fact it is. Have you noticed the economy?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

You do realize that most quests are non repeatable, do you? And the 13 missions in the game won't keep you entertained forever, too.

Though it should keep you entertained for... I don't know... six months?

Quote:

Honestly, I still have no idea why some people here insist on forcing their prefered gamestyle on others.

Human nature would be my guess.

Quote:

It's probably the most arrogant thing you can do in a computer game.

I think that would be attacking the integrity and stability of the computer game itself (hacking, etc.), but to each their own.

Quote:

GW is desgined that you don't NEED to farm, that still doesn't mean that you MUSN'T farm in GW. Some people just like it, you know?

I think there are actually a very small amount of people who say "I don't want farming, period." Instead, I believe the common feeling on such a matter is "Farming shouldn't be the focal point of the game."

SnipiousMax · May 13, 2006, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter

I think there are actually a very small amount of people who say "I don't want farming, period." Instead, I believe the common feeling on such a matter is "Farming shouldn't be the focal point of the game."

Quoted for Truth.

Wessels · May 14, 2006, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Quote:

LOL - and you're so wrong. Just look at what's holding Cavalon, and you'll realize that the whole point of Factions is FARMING (very saddly ...). Just not 55 monk or necro farming, but faction farming. If the top Luxon guild is only top because they farm supply runs all day long, what other questions one should have about what Factions is about?

QFT.

I have been playing for a while now and when you arrive in either Kurzick or Luxon territory the big farming spree commences :

- you have to complete the "befriend " quest ,in order to do this you need to amass 10,000 faction .
- The 10k faction isn't obtainable by doing each quest ONCE, no: you have to repeat quests quite a lot of times to get there ( = farming ) .
- when you have the 10k faction you can purchase jadeite/amber with it ( at 1k/piece) : in fact you have to spend it because there's a 10k cap .
- armor costs a lot more than 10 pieces of jadeite or amber however ( even the "normal " 1,5k armor ) so here you go again farming faction to get enough for the armor .
- you get a huge number of skillpoints ,but no way to spend them ( unless you farm for faction,exchange the faction and sell jadeite/amber for cash = farming ) because you can never keep up with spending gold to get skills with them unless you farm.

- if you spend the original 10k faction you HAVE to do one of the quests again to gain access to the NPC's of the territory , this even when having done the befriend quest . When you have 0 faction of both sides you cannot access NPC's AT ALL in both territories.

I have been considering the entire way this is setup and the whole point is you have to do same quests over and over to get faction . In my book this is farming .

I have also outlined some solutions to the whole faction-farming/elite-missions/armor /general mechanics -issue :

* make amber and jadeite less rare so folks who are completely NOT interested in farming faction can obtain it and still get normal 1,5k armor - take note : I'm not considering 15k armor here ..droknar armor used rare materials but at least you could get that from normal drops ( with a salvage kit or material crafter ).I have - the entire time I have been playing- see two drops of jadeite and amber TOTAL .You can make this easy as well : sometimes you find a jade staff /amber staff .This should yield pieces of said materials when salvaged.

* either re-instate a lot more skills-reward quests or make sure folks get enough gold-reward to spend skillpoints without having to farm for gold ( i.e. : faction to get amber or jadeite ) .As it is now you can't use the same system as we did in prophecies : pick up all and sell for gold,since storage space is severely lacking .

* lower the cap for skill-cost .Instead of 1k/skill ,make it 500 . Mind you : the above needn't be implemented together - these are just some solutions .

As it is now, I'm not enjoying the game very much because it forces you to farm to even get access to game-content as you have to do the befriend -quest in order to get access to missions thereafter ( not even mentioning elite-missions as there are other threads for that ) and you have to do repeat it as well to maintain a certain level of faction . Also : when you want to play both sides - and thus play the game to the fullest - you'll have to go through the whole thing again ( Kurzick or luxon -befriend ,farm etc. ) . Not very appealing .....

Danger Russ · May 16, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

I am really tired of farmer hate. I think everyone has at least one green item in prophecies because the farmers went out found builds and lowered the prices. It is the same with runes, ectos, shards, shells, dyes, etc and numerous weapons. I was never a professional farmer because i did not have the patience to sell items. But I loved the challenge of getting them. I really loved the solo farm best of all. No mistakes allowed. 55 is/was cool, but it is just one way to do it. Put togther some great warrior builds. Figured out how to murder things with my ranger. My minion master ranged the country side with his army. To me, the great joy of guild wars is to find that build that conquers your opponents.

Since I loved builds and challenges, I gained gold and respect. I farmed ettins, titans, wurms, mursaat, ice imps, hydra, griffins, trolls, those floating mesmer heads, minotaurs, UW, FOW, new UW, and whatever else gave a decent drop for the fun of it.

I have not gotten far in Factions but you guys have painted a bleak picture.
I like to be able to farm or buy nice things. I like having access to difficult terrain. I hope that the soloist is not dead in Factions. This thing about farming faction points and kissing someone's butt to join their guild even as a guest does not sound cool at all. I like the small PVE oriented guild I have.
I am glad I still have prophecies.

pegasux · May 16, 2006, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Why does everyone think that farming is dead in the first pace anyways? Those of you who think that are just not looking hard enough. There aren't the typical griff or hydra runs around cause most groups are balanced now so that you have to be a smarter farmer, not just a press 1-5 in order to farm that crowd. Look at your foes and adjust your skills. if your having a hard time farming an area then take a buddy and dual farm it.

Markaedw · May 16, 2006, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Altuogh I have not done any farming, the simple fact is we need farmers. When the game first came out runes were hard to get. Why? The farmers hadn't found them yet. Rare materials were evern rarer, because farmers hadn't sold them yet. Farmers are the economy.

What ruins the economy is the e-bay sellers and traders. They ruin the ecnomy just as counterfiters ruin it.

Hunter Sharparrow · May 16, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Anet allows farming, they have stated it. They encourage coming up with new was to challenge your character.

That is one of the biggest things that get to me. That interview that anet had about farming was them saying they are against farming. Yes they said that they like to see (and expect) people to become skilled at the game. That these people will find ways of taking out the enemy easier and faster than the average person. Don't be confused and think that they support farming by saying this. They are merely saying that they know people will become exceptionally good at the game and will come up with class combos as well as builds to take out the enemy easier and faster.

If you actually read the whole thing instead of only paying attention to the parts you want to hear you will see that this "skill" the some players will obtain is ok if it generates twice wealth as the average player. Well the average player (from when I last heard) has 20 to 30k which means these skilled players should have 40 to 60k, right? Wrong and that is where the problem is.

If you continue to read past that point in the interview you will see that they are against the farming that generates ten times or more gold. So why the average player has 20 to 30K these people that farm have 200 to 300k or more. Sounds about right doesn't it...

This farming comes in three ways; using bots to farm for hours on end, sweatshop farmers who work for a company (some don't) and sell the gold on ebay (those that use bots do this as well in some cases) and the last one being just regular people (much like the op of this thread who is complaining that there are no good farming spots in factions) who farm effectively. They don't have to spend hours on end just a few. Effectively is like soloing a high end area like the UW.

For those that think that farming is something that is a part of the game and use FoW armor as an example for the requirement to farm. The FoW has the same stats as Drok's, it only looks different. It is intended to be a LONG term goal. I hear these people who say they have the FoW armor on four of their characters. Well the game has been out for just little over a year meaning that is one set of FoW armor every three month. Three months is not long term. Three months would be the 15k armor. The long term for FoW armor would be people fitting one of their characters with FoW armor soon or just recently. That is long term. It's a goal for when all other goals have been reached or a goal to work towards while achiving the other goals. They gave the FoW and UW repeatable quests for a reason and it's not so people can go down there, ignore the quests and farm the place by collecting the chests and killing the enemies. Anet spent the money on the designers who took the time to put these quests into the game so that they can be played. The xp giving is enough to clear the dp that people are bound to accumulate while down there.

Anet has made some updates to ch1 to rid the game of farming (or atleast keep it to a minimum) and when they designed factions they did so the farming on the brain. This is no doubt the reason why you can't find any really good farm locations in factions. It's not like when ch1 was released where farming was not only easy but had a very high payout they learned from their mistakes before releasing factions (and made a whole new set of mistakes).

Really people. Take the hint and play the game. Farming the game is not playing the game.

SirShadowrunner · May 16, 2006, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Well, it looks everyone has covered just about every pro and con of farming,
I just want to add that I am very glad I had a good stash of gold from ch. 1
to bring over so I could buy skills. I believe this is kind of an unfair advantage
for ch.1 players, if ppl are suppose to learn how to get better then they
need the skills to do it, but yes, there is the other side of this arguement,
and I know it to, if you go out and buy every skill as soon as you can, you
probably won't use them all very much, so you are not learning the new
skill. Hence ppl come to these forums for quick advice and then give it a go,
I do believe most ppl try to modify builds they copy to see what happens,
but the advice you get here and other places is extremely valueable and
saves time for alot of ppl.

p.s. it does not matter how much you play the game, you will not get
every item there is in the game to drop, I completed ch. 1 3 times,
all titan and SF stuff multiple times, 40+ FOW spider cave runs, dozens
of UW smite and spider runs and I have never gotten a Sup. Absorption
or a 15^50 axe of any kind to drop. O-yeah and about 100 of those
pesky ettin runs, so farmers are needed, if you ever want to mod weapons
within a reasonable time, like before the next chapter comes out.