Curse

Siren · May 04, 2006, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by agentnull

"The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position."

You just admitted to doing exactly that.

Oh, Straw Man! I'm so scared. I don't care about the Straw Man fallacy, because let's see what you said previously:

Quote:

Originally Posted by agentnull

People who don't shell out the money to buy the CE don't have a chance to get the new pets without buying them.

If those people didn't buy the CE, they're not going to get the "new" pets, because the "new" pets are for the CE. And thus, the only way to get a CE Pet is either buying the CE itself, or going through a CE player.

How is that a problem? What issue do you have with that? Would you rather the CErs have no options and freedoms regarding what they can do with their CE Pet? Would you prefer that no "regular" player is ever able to get the CE Pet? Would you prefer that all players, regardless of "regular" or CE, have the CE Pet?

What are you trying to get at? You're saying it's a bad thing when other non-CE players can't acquire the CE Pet without buying it, but they didn't order the CE, so they wouldn't have the CE Pet in the first place, so why do you think it's logically proper to complain about that, when there's really nothing to complain about in the first place?

"Other players don't have the CE Pets because they didn't get the CE and then have to buy them, so therefore it's not right" is precisely what you're saying, and it's a load of rubbish, because nobody was holding a gun to those players' heads and forced them to buy the Standard Edition, the CE Pets were added so that the CE players who stuck it out would have a token of appreciation, and buying the CE Pet in-game certainly isn't the only option available.

Some players are going to price-gouge the shit out of their CE Pet, I don't doubt that for a second. But price-gouging the shit out of things happens all the time in Guild Wars, so I don't think it's all that valid a criticism to throw around here. Price-gouging is pretty much a given these days, because a lot of the Guild Wars players are complete assholes when it comes to pricing.

The price-gouging is already happening with the B-day Pets, and as far as I can tell...the pet distribution is random. Some get Devourers while some get Necrid Horsemen, while some get Rurik or Charr Shamans. So even then, to get a specific Minipet, if one doesn't open the present and find it, one is going to have to buy it from someone else, which is exactly similar to the CE Pet:

Everyone is not going to get a Mini-Rurik, just like everyone is not going to get a Mini-CE.

Each Mini-Pet is limited, depending on how you look at things.

SnyperP · May 04, 2006, 04:10 AM // 04:10

I really don't get you guys. People were complaining that CE was delayed and they wouldn't have access to factions for a month without buying a regular copy. That's A.Net's fault, pure and simple. Now they want make up for it by giving people who bought/buying/waiting for CE a mini dragon pet. Be happy that they're giving people that at all. They could give them nothing and be done with it. I'm not trying to rant at people, but be careful what you wish for. We have a great company that cares about the community here. They are doing innovative stuff and giving us nice suprises here and there.

Ju_Smurph · May 04, 2006, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Quote:

Its kinda a waste of inventory space, do they have a gallery or do they actually take up a slot in your inventory, do min pets do anything?

Sell it, Im sure you could get well over 100k for it!

As for your cards idea... you want them to hold up shipping and production further to give out a playing card... that would just piss people off...

Quote:

Kuunavang?! You say Kuunavang!? THE KUUNAVANG!!! *screams*

OMG!!!! This is sooooooooooooooo worth the wait!!!!!

*sings* Flying pet for me~~ Walking pets for you~~~ *points*

Muwahahahahahahaha~~~

*faints*

LMAO

828168 · May 04, 2006, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by agentnull

Here it goes, one more time. The problem I have is not that people who waited for the CE are getting rewarded for their patience. It is that they are getting rewarded with something they can sell in game.

Just as the people who has the birthday presents for their 1 year characters. What's the big difference? Yes, we all will or at least we're suppose to get them after our character reaches 1 year old. But wouldn't it mean that those who got the game early and already gotten their pets has a huge advantage in selling them in game now and those who'll get them later on this year will get something that may be almost worthless since almost everyone got one by now? Or if they created 4 characters, everyone's gotten 4 by now? Why complain about 1 and not the other?

828168 · May 04, 2006, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuperwho

Gaile, did you see my post?

Why do I feel like a 2 year old clammering for attention? But seriously... are the dev's giving any thought to an upgrade package for $20-$30 that will essentially turn your normal version of Factions into a CE???

I would like this to be the case too. I don't mind paying the extra $20-30 to turn the normal version to CE. All I need is the key. They can keep the other useless portion of the package. I know, it costs money to make, but I'm sure marketing the game costs way more than the materials or whatever extra goodies they throw into the box.

Leighwyn · May 04, 2006, 04:44 AM // 04:44

I don't understand how Agentnull's argument with everyone here has been able to go on for so long, since he is 100% correct and all his ideas are completely what should happen.

People who waited should be rewarded, yes, and Anet has decided that this reward should be an exclusive mini-pet. Great. Wonderful, totally tubular. The problem is that they are tradeable, as he has said numerous times. He is not saying that the pets shouldn't exist, he is not saying that patience shouldn't be rewarded and that Anet shouldn't attempt to douse the flames that are the CE release. All he is saying is that people who receive them on their accounts should not be able to sell them to others for in-game gold...

...which makes perfect sense. Yes, you should be able to trade them between characters on your account. Just like preorder items. Yes, you should be able to show off your awesomely cool pet. What you shouldn't be able to do is gain an unfair economic advantage within the game (and, if you are an unscrupulous sort, in dollars), just because Anet wants to sincerely apologize to you. If the preorder weapons you receive were completely godly, it would barely touch the economy...and not because you could sell it to others for in-game gold (since you can't), but only because it would take yourself out of the market for whatever the item was. Such should be the same for these bonus items.

The only way to argue against this change is to either:

A) Want to sell it for mega gold or cashola, or

B) Like someone said, having the ability to let people 'borrow' it

C) Who cares???? I want to keep it anyway!!!

Point A I won't even touch, since it's somewhat circular to do so. Point B also isn't worth countering, because having that ability would not provide anywhere close the benefit to the community as making them tradeable would hurt it. Point C's ability will always be there, so who cares about point C.

So...please stop arguing with him. You are either not understanding what he is suggesting, or are interesting in Option A.

Siren · May 04, 2006, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leighwyn

All he is saying is that people who receive them on their accounts should not be able to sell them to others for in-game gold...

The B-day Minipets are being sold for absurd amounts of gold, even though people can wait a year and get them. Does it being guaranteed to everyone stop anything? No. The High-End forum keeps embarrassing itself. lol. When there's a buyer, there's a market. That's held true for everything in the game so far, when anything new has been introduced. Fundamentally, the Mini-pets are no different than Greens. So why treat the Mini-pets (or the CE Pet) differently?

Because the Greens can be acquired by anyone? Ignoring the fact that we both know the debate we could open up there, I'd say that the B-day Pets can be acquired by anyone (and it's guaranteed), and the CE Pets, by being opened up to the market, are now open to everyone, albeit at higher costs.

One may counter that with "Due to the higher costs, they're not open to everyone."

And I'll say to that "Well, Mini-Ruriks aren't open to everyone, either, and yet I'm seeing nobody criticizing Mini-Rurik, especially given the basis for the criticisms leveled against the CE Pets."

Quote:

So...please stop arguing with him. You are either not understanding what he is suggesting, or are interesting in Option A.

I'm understanding him perfectly fine. It's just that his argument is absolute rubbish, and is making a mountain out of a mole-hill, because

One, the CErs will only sell if they don't want to keep the CE Pet as a memento (and really, based on the insanity surrounding the production of CE, I doubt most are going to part with it, for sentimental reasons);

Two, if they do decide to sell, they're either going to price-gouge the shit out of it, or if they're decent human beings (like Yours Truly), they'll let it go for nothing or close-to-nothing;

And three, those who do offer to buy it will create the same kind of situation we saw with just about everything in this game's economy, so pointing to economic concerns at this point is completely moot and almost downright useless, because many of the players in-game are complete douchebags.

And let's not forget a critically important point here: that selling in-game is a transaction of fake money...of digital currency. Which doesn't matter at all--or at least shouldn't matter at all to the degree it's mattering to agentnull and yourself. More and more, I'm tempted to reply with "Who the hell cares" when I keep seeing the "should not be able to sell them to others for in-game gold..." response. Because that "should not be able to" argument is basically missing the point of having fun items in the game.

chris_bernal FTW · May 04, 2006, 05:12 AM // 05:12

I heir on the side of account-locked, like not customized, but like pre-order items, you can't put it in a trade screen. The real issue is not just this, but the whole mini-pet idea in general. Of course you can't take it away with all these people getting attatched to it and shit, but think about it...a Lvl 20 Wammo who aggroes everything and plays like an idiot, BUT has played on and off for 12 months. Then, he comes back one day and sees a present! He opens it and sees a Rurik! On his other character, his n00b monk who he tries to get into groups as a Healer, but is really a smiter is also at 12 months. This character by some amazing fortune gets a Bone Dragon, and so on (finding it on other chars, or possibly mule accounts)...A guy could be the greatest n00b, but if he sold it on the first day...BAM! Millionaire (if you sold it to the right people or had a few).

Also, the CE minipet is like a really rare thing. Only the CE buyers get it and it's not like a bunch of people are going to buy these afterwards. It's going to be a market with steady supply, but really high demand. EVERYONE wants a RARE n00b haxx0r pwnzor dragon (/sarcasm). But seriously, people WILL want it and then people can start going, do I hear 100k+1750 (max in trade screen)? I can definitely see these going Mil+ cuz unlike B-Day presents, people aren't getting it/having it every single day. These are rarer in general because everyone that plays GW has a birthday (at least I think they do), yet way less than like 1/4 probably ordered the CE.

All in all, I support agentnull's prospect. Let it be account based, untradeable in the screen, but accessable by all your characters by storage.

BTW, all that want to pay $20-30 for the CE now...Why would the offer that? Maybe a little extra money, but a little contridactory. After all, this is a patience reward. Whoever said it's for people that cancel cuz of the ten day wait, but then want it again cuz of Kunvang or what ever the hell his goddamn name is. The reward is for patience, but I still don't think your oh-so sad plight of not getting to play Factions for like a week is worth 1 Mil+, which is probably what people will value it at.

Beast Masster · May 04, 2006, 05:16 AM // 05:16

If I bought the plain copy from EB games, and decide that I want the mini-pet being offered with CE versions, will I be able to return it for a refund? Because of the access key card being ripped open already, I'm not sure if they will take it back. Anyone know?

Mako · May 04, 2006, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Mini-Rurik > all other miniatures

For ascalon, beetches!

If you actually think about it, if this miniature comes with every CE edition then they arent going to be rare one bit, there appears to be alot of people that are going to buy the CE which means the flocks of Kunnvang (or however its spelled) dragons will flood outposts everywhere. Where as the mini pets you obtain through a characters birthday reward are random, some more rarer than others, so people who think that the floating dragon will go off the charts in the market you are sadly mistaken.

Leighwyn · May 04, 2006, 05:51 AM // 05:51

I don't think anyone is arguing about fairness, they all don't mind them getting the item. Some just feel they should be able to sell it to others, and some feel they shouldnt o_0. And as an FYI, I don't think any mini-pet should be sellable.

JDunsh · May 04, 2006, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Thank you ANET, this is an excellent gift for those of us that are still waiting to get back into Factions.

Vlad Titanskin · May 04, 2006, 06:05 AM // 06:05

so i have CE howcome i dont have anything ?

Mako · May 04, 2006, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad Titanskin

so i have CE howcome i dont have anything ?

Ouch.

devilru · May 04, 2006, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad Titanskin

so i have CE howcome i dont have anything ?

Read the actual announcement by A-Net, it says "within the next 10 days".

Edge Martinez · May 04, 2006, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Just laughing over here... and wanted to say again, "Thank you ANet for doing more than you had to.", even though I only buy the regular editions. At least some people got a little something extra, and I'm happy for them.

Considering all the other delayed games I've lived through with nothing to show for it, I think the gesture was wonderful.

Keep it up

Vlad Titanskin · May 04, 2006, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilru

Read the actual announcement by A-Net, it says "within the next 10 days".

yeah soz just woke up

CK0 · May 04, 2006, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnyperP

Be happy that they're giving people that at all. They could give them nothing and be done with it. I'm not trying to rant at people, but be careful what you wish for. We have a great company that cares about the community here. They are doing innovative stuff and giving us nice suprises here and there.

Unfortunately I am not so optimistic. They are a business. Including the CE pet is an action to appease the mass of gloomy CE pre-orderers. Here is what they are thinking:

[P1]:"Geez, the community is really down about the CE delay."
[P2]:"Yeah I know. We should do something before CH3 arrives, because it is only 6 months away, and they will obviously remember this, and less people will buy the CE edition of CH3! We will lose profits, oh noes!"
[P1]:"I know! We can give all the people with the CE a pet! Now they will surely buy it!"

---
Selling these pets can be an alternative to buying eBay gold. The price difference from the standard and CE edition is $20. So if you were planning to buy the game anyway, you can buy the CE edition for an extra $20, and sell the CE pet in-game. $20 to buy eBay gold will net you approx. 300p GW money. I have no idea how much you can sell the CE pet for, but if you can get 300p, well then that is a nice profit. This is an alternative to the CE pet. Please note I don't have an opinion on the topic of selling or not selling these pets. The above is just an observation. Obviously they[ANET] will make more money from people buying the CE edition.

RTSFirebat · May 04, 2006, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Glad I got CE in the end afterall, yes I already have my copy

hehe

Now I wondering if only one of my characters will get this (As in the first one I log in with once its active?) or will all of them get one?

Needless to say, I'm pleased, the rewards and benefits of having CE this time around is great.

plasmasword · May 04, 2006, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Can someone please post a screenshot of the Dragon we will be getting. I read that it spawned in town durring the last hour of the FPE, and I wanted to know what it looked like because I missed it. =]