Curse

Levi Garett · May 08, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrongBow

I don't do missions for items or unlocks as i am close to 95% unlocking items. Monetary wealth is always welcome, aswell as new looks etc. I don't mind new content nor the "elite mission" however i do care when it comes to the system of implementation of this "Elite mission" and "Alliance" feature.

What people are saying that this system is abusable.

There are several quests outside luxon/kurzick towns that are repeatable, it takes no skill, no challenge, to complete these quests and do so whenever i want. But the problem is that A small alliance cannot have the same output of faction amount as a large Alliance. You see? even with factions farming you are at dissadvantage.

I don't mind the elite mission infact i encourge the idea, but the way this system is setup leaves alot to desire. Denying content just because you dont belong in an alliance is "Clear mistake"

To add here, there was mentioned in previous post a "Fee version" if you are not in the alliance controlling the town, I encourage this idea!

SB

***EDIT***

Now I see that only members of the Alliances that currently controlling the towns are happy with this solution.

GG ArenaNET

I realise that my opinion on this matter doesn't really count since my guild alliance has held the house for the past day or two. But what I don't quite understand is why all of the people here complaining aren't PM'ing each other and creating an "UBER" alliance to combine faction and take the house?

I see lots of complaining but nobody doing anything about it?

Sir_BlackJack · May 08, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buoyancy

Just remember, everyone, that anybody who wants to limit access to the so-called "elite missions", is nothing more than a person who is terrified that other people will claim that they've wasted their time playing the game. In order to maintain their illusionary feelings of self-worth, they have to make every attempt to limit how many people can accomplish what they've accomlished. After all, if everyone was given the opportunity to accomplish something without putting in completely retarded amounts of timesinks, then everyone might realize just how easy the so-called accomplishments actually are.

Quote:

So far I gathered "MONOPOLY MISSION" goes better then "Elite Mission"

Sums it up.

StrongBow · May 08, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Yes, Levi you are correct to assume that but where is the fun on just repeating one mission for faction farming? where is the competitive gameplay ? Where is the ... oh hell "Skill" here ?

Don't get me wrong i hold nothing againts XoO and i respect XoO same as i do other known guilds but hey, defending wrongly implemented game mechanics, despite beeing a member in XoO Alliance, doesn't means that you have the right to make the rules on PvE!

SB

Sunman222 · May 08, 2006, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Anyone know much about alliance faction decay? What it's based on? It is a constant number per day?

I'm thinking that the holding alliance should decay far faster then other alliances could be a potential solution. Perhaps decaying based on how many times the Elite mission is accessed?

Thock · May 08, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrongBow

Yes, Levi you are correct to assume that but where is the fun on just repeating one mission for faction farming? where is the competitive gameplay ? Where is the ... oh hell "Skill" here ?

Don't get me wrong i hold nothing againts XoO and i respect XoO same as i do other known guilds but hey, defending wrongly implemented game mechanics, despite beeing a member in XoO Alliance, doesn't means that you have the right to make the rules on PvE!

SB

You say it should be based on player skill to get in right? What is the point of an alliance controlling the town and having access to the elite mission when they are not skilled enough to make it through the mission? There is none, if an alliance without any skill got into the elite mission they would try a few times, and then give up. Is it difficult to access? Certainly, but it can be done.

As far as the faction farming goes, it is competitive; you are competing against other alliances to get the faction needed for control. You need to get members that can efficiently farm the faction as well as other guilds with the same goals. It is a dull and boring process, it is WORK.

For those of you who say you bought the whole game and therfore have a right to the content, your absolutely right. The only thing stopping you from accessing it is YOU. If you want it so bad go out there and earn it like they did.

StrongBow · May 08, 2006, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thock

You say it should be based on player skill to get in right? What is the point of an alliance controlling the town and having access to the elite mission when they are not skilled enough to make it through the mission? There is none, if an alliance without any skill got into the elite mission they would try a few times, and then give up. Is it difficult to access? Certainly, but it can be done .

Heh, Read on!

1.You have to controle the capital of Luxon/Kurzicks to be able to do access the "Elite mission".
2.To controle it you would need what? more then 3 mil?
3.To gain 3.7 mil you need to have lots of members, i mean way more then members because the other alliance would have maybe the same number.
4. So, let's farm faction, and who farms faster will have more chance to controle the mission.
5. Where is the skill here?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thock

As far as the faction farming goes, it is competitive; you are competing against other alliances to get the faction needed for control. You need to get members that can efficiently farm the faction as well as other guilds with the same goals. It is a dull and boring process, it is WORK.

Yes, even ebay gold is competitive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thock

For those of you who say you bought the whole game and therfore have a right to the content, your absolutely right. The only thing stopping you from accessing it is YOU. If you want it so bad go out there and earn it like they did .

You as Numbers

Mimi Miyagi · May 08, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thock

You say it should be based on player skill to get in right? What is the point of an alliance controlling the town and having access to the elite mission when they are not skilled enough to make it through the mission? There is none, if an alliance without any skill got into the elite mission they would try a few times, and then give up. Is it difficult to access? Certainly, but it can be done.

As far as the faction farming goes, it is competitive; you are competing against other alliances to get the faction needed for control. You need to get members that can efficiently farm the faction as well as other guilds with the same goals. It is a dull and boring process, it is WORK.

For those of you who say you bought the whole game and therfore have a right to the content, your absolutely right. The only thing stopping you from accessing it is YOU. If you want it so bad go out there and earn it like they did.

I don't really object to the *idea* of faction/alliances - however ANets implementation leaves something to be desired.

The fact that a single alliance can (and most likely will) gain and hold house indefinitely by simply having all of the members farming faction like ants in an ant colony is the problem. If, perhaps, it was a king of the hill pvp style game much like HA, where players earned "tokens" to access the elite missions - that would be one thing. At some point, they have to go off and do the elite mission, opening up the challenge for someone else.

But as I've stated numerous times, one single alliance can dominate a challenge arena town. But even that's not so bad - but the fact you need to grind faction over and over just to maintain it, is just simply sad. Alliances already are talking about quotas for members.

People talked about lack of "grind" in GW - well, here it is.

Pandora's box · May 08, 2006, 07:44 PM // 19:44

I think what Strongbow is trying to say is that PvE players are now forced to play PvP matches to get the necessary faction points for accessing PvE elite missions.

The way I see it its an attempt of Arenanet to merge the 2 differend kind of playing styles. But something that did not work in chapter 1 wont work in chapter 2 or in any other expansion. Sure, players should prove themselves to access elite content. But as for PvE please allow it the adventuring way: by exploring the map, slaying enemies that are getting stronger and stronger as you progress... Not by closing gates or forcing people to play a completely differend kind of game.

I think Factions is based on the wrong concept. And I hope chapter 3 will return to the free adventuring style so many players like

Levi Garett · May 08, 2006, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thock

You say it should be based on player skill to get in right? What is the point of an alliance controlling the town and having access to the elite mission when they are not skilled enough to make it through the mission? There is none, if an alliance without any skill got into the elite mission they would try a few times, and then give up. Is it difficult to access? Certainly, but it can be done.

As far as the faction farming goes, it is competitive; you are competing against other alliances to get the faction needed for control. You need to get members that can efficiently farm the faction as well as other guilds with the same goals. It is a dull and boring process, it is WORK.

For those of you who say you bought the whole game and therfore have a right to the content, your absolutely right. The only thing stopping you from accessing it is YOU. If you want it so bad go out there and earn it like they did.

And as mentioned before let's not forget that donating all that faction is throwing away a good bit of money since you can trade faction for jade and such. So how much jade can you get with 2.2mil faction anyways? Small price to pay for elite mission access, right?

Perhaps the problem with other alliances is nobody is willing to donate that much faction? Too busy trading it all for jade? I'm not sure, but there is a good bit of work involved, even with a big alliance, to hold the house. We lost the house yesterday and busted our buns to get it back...

StrongBow · May 08, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

I think what Strongbow is trying to say is that PvE players are now forced to play PvP matches to get the necessary faction points for accessing PvE elite missions.

The way I see it its an attempt of Arenanet to merge the 2 differend kind of playing styles. But something that did not work in chapter 1 wont work in chapter 2 or in any other expansion. Sure, players should prove themselves to access elite content. But as for PvE please allow it the adventuring way: by exploring the map, slaying enemies that are getting stronger and stronger as you progress... Not by closing gates or forcing people to play a completely differend kind of game.

I think Factions is based on the wrong concept. And I hope chapter 3 will return to the free adventuring style so many players like

No, please .... its not that

it's more simple! Pve or PvP doesnt have to do anything with that.

To farm faction in cantha is like, Get a box from here run 3 mins and get 400 factions. Do this 25 times and you have 10000 factions. Imagine an Alliance with 10 guilds doing this daily basis? Gods

Peace

Thock · May 08, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrongBow

Heh, Read on!

1.You have to controle the capital of Luxon/Kurzicks to be able to do access the "Elite mission".
2.To controle it you would need what? more then 3 mil?
3.To gain 3.7 mil you need to have lots of members, i mean way more then members because the other alliance would have maybe the same number.
4. So, let's farm faction, and who farms faster will have more chance to controle the mission.
5. Where is the skill here?

At what point did I say that it took skill to farm faction? I said it was difficult, something that is difficult does not automatically require skill. The reason it is difficult is it is a boring process, it’s not something you are going to get enjoyment out of. Therefore you need force yourself to do it. Lifting a car is difficult, it does not require skill. I will reiterate my point again since you seem to have missed it. There is no point in holding a town if you cannot survive in the elite missions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrongBow

Yes, even ebay gold is competitive.

By definition farming faction to hold a town is a competition. You are in competition with other alliances for control of a town and access to elite missions. It may not be the kind of competition you enjoy, but it is a competition nonetheless. And at what point did I say anything about ebay? It has nothing to do with this debate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrongBow

You as Numbers

What is that supposed to mean?

StrongBow · May 08, 2006, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thock

What is that supposed to mean?

It means that I (or YOU) cannot hold a town alone. You would need numbers and that means NUMBERS of faction farmers. Quotas to be accepted in an Alliance are allready introduced.

Sir_BlackJack · May 08, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Pictures of an elite mission (german forum):

http://gw.gamona.de/forum/showthread...threadid=91286

Thock · May 08, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrongBow

It means that I (or YOU) cannot hold a town alone. You would need numbers and that means NUMBERS of faction farmers. Quotas to be accepted in an Alliance are allready introduced.

What is stopping you from either joining an alliance with those numbers or making your own?

MelechRic · May 08, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thock

As far as the faction farming goes, it is competitive; you are competing against other alliances to get the faction needed for control. You need to get members that can efficiently farm the faction as well as other guilds with the same goals. It is a dull and boring process, it is WORK.

I work all day. Is it too much to ask for my gaming time to be relaxing and fun? If ANet wanted to create a game that was "...a dull and boring process..." and a lot of "...WORK" then Factions is their masterpiece.

GunnerMan1 · May 08, 2006, 08:40 PM // 20:40

I agrre, I tried having this disucsion last night ingame with a few BkBl members. But it was useless, there were a few good minded BkBl but a few would just call us cry babies etc and could not for the life of them engage in a convo. (cavalon costs about 4 mil to buy now) So anway here I will post what I think...

At first I thought Elite missions were accesible to ALL Luxon or Kurzick if they moved the battle line over enough. But I see this is not the case, there is thes town owning system...seems like a good idea gone kind of bad, we have 2 elite missions; a kurzick and luxon each loacted on one town. Since everyone will be competeing for one town it will drive the town price to an insane level of faction cost.

Now guild like the BkBl allaince have worked incredibly hard at gaining faction to get their place in Cavalon. I did the calculations I think if I was right assuming their allaince did the Ft Aspenwood pvp thing earning 600 faction a win in half an hour I came up with these numbers: To earn 3 Mill faction it would take 5,000 wins, if it takes 30 mins a win that is 2,500 hours of gameplay. To earn this in one week you would need about 15 players playing 24 hours a day non stop in this pvp arena. So if an allaince has 500 members dedicated to earning faction it sounds not to to bad...
Anyway I congradulate the BkBl allaince for their accompleshment, I belive it is good to have an award for playing like this.

But you see my side to this is what about the small time people..you know those that like to be in small guilds where everybody knows everybody and they all get on from 5 -10 at night and play and chill. Or those people without guilds at all. These guild have no chance at getting 3 mill faction FASTER than a allaince like BkBl. The "elite" missions are not about letting the best players in, not at all, they are about letting the biggest guilds with the most time in. Sorry but gaining faction requires no more skill then pressing "Enter Mission." This is what gets me, I thought GW was a game based on player skill to achieve something, such as taking favor, and when someone takes favor a HUGE amount of the population benefit.

I understand a good allaince should get a good reward for taking a town and they get it. They get reduced trader prices, party area, fireworks. Shoot anet could give them a lot more Vanity things as a great reward. But why should 99% of the population be blocked out off a mission only because they don't want to or can't get in a huge faction farming guild?

Im afraid the only thing you and I will ever see of these so called "Elite" missions are screenshots, that is if the allaince in power does not turn into a a greedy self centered tyrant. Or wait has that already happened?

Hehe have a good day guys.

StrongBow · May 08, 2006, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thock

What is stopping you from either joining an alliance with those numbers or making your own?

Fees and other requirements(Prices go high with each day passing)? Why should i turn myself into a Faction Farmer just to gain entrance into an alliance?

How about "WTS Elite Mission entry 100k" ?

aqualls · May 08, 2006, 09:22 PM // 21:22

For those that say the only "YOU" are preventing yourself from getting into an Elite mission you may not have considered that many people have out of game limitations on how much time they can devote to the game. Many people have obligations such as jobs and families to attend to. This is no reflection on the skill of the player or whether they could be considered Elite players. Guild Wars was originally promoted as a game that could be played a hour or two at a time. From what I have seen it is difficult to get into the Alliances that hold the cities and that they have requirements that can't be fullfilled with just a few hours a week. This excludes players based on time availablity. It favors single people who do not have significant requirements outside of the game. Yes, people paid to play the game and yes it is legitimate to for them to feel that they have the right to access all the content in the game. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't earn it just like earning your way to level 20 and hunting skills. However, the method by which they earn it should be available and feasable for all who play the game. It may be difficult to earn access but it should not allow players to control who has access and who doesn't in a discrimanatory fassion.

lordgambit · May 08, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Am mainly a PvE player and when I heard there were going to be elite missions, this was an awesome idea, a new area where you would be challenged, of course overtime it is PvE, so you can create builds to beat it, but ANET is free to change the mission anything, to add even more fun for those that like PvE, expect with the curent system factions farmers (pvp or pve) get access, some or a lot of them are probably elite players, but not all. Also there are a lot of elite players and elite guilds that dont have a chance.

Kudos does goes to at least the Black Blades for their work with the current system, they organized and did what the game told to, farm factions.

I dont believe i have the solution to the problem, one idea is have a pre-elite mission area, where you would have to beat this area to get access to the elite mission and pay a faction or money based entry. In this pre-area there would be no drops, no XP, no nothing.

Sir Rough Neck · May 08, 2006, 10:23 PM // 22:23

100 skill points to enter elite mission. If your too lazy to earn the elite mission yourself(whether getting into a lead alliance or starting your own) you'll have to pay an outragous amount of skill points to enter. That way the area wont be over populated with whiners and rage quiters who complain about how hard it is.
Just my two cents