Curse

Metanoia · May 29, 2006, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinja

Im gonna second the welcome to the internet. Incompetent players in coop missions piss me off, and if I call you a dumb newb after explaining 50 times why we shouldnt rush hoards of mobs, maybe, just maybe, you are a dumb newb. ...[snipped the burninating rage]...

The only time I make an attempt at a mission without somewhat excessive pre-game banter is when I'm not really bothered if we succeed or not. Perhaps I'm just weird, but for some reason I find "newbish" behavior endearing. You'd be surprised how open to advice people are if you present it in a respectful manner.

nic0008 · May 29, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16

1. Under what circumstances does it become acceptable to abuse another player? Never

2. When is the line crossed from being angry to abusive? When you put your rage/action to the player, rather than there actions

3. Does animosity and lack of consequence of such behavior provided through the internet perpetuate abuse or is it the lack of monitoring children by parents?
Don't know.

Ira Blinks · May 29, 2006, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demesis

Actually, yes

You see, the nice guys in GW actually kick ass in real life. Because our outside lives aern't so miserable, we don't act like jerks in games. We can perfectly own anyone in the real world.

The jerks in the game are losers in real life, so to compensate for their misery and short penises, they are what they are online. But we all know that the next day when he goes to school, he's just gonna get beaten up by some guy just like me.

The the cycle repeats itself when he goes online. More jerkish behaviour and the next day he gets his ass kicked in real life.

so you have to be bully in real life to be a nice person ingame?

Demesis · May 29, 2006, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

so you have to be bully in real life to be a nice person ingame?

ROFL

Of course not!

I'm just saying from my own personal experience

NJudson · May 29, 2006, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imp

I know this has been suggested before, but the minimap needs to be colored on who is drawing it but light colors so people can see it (white [player1] Lightblue [player 2] light purple [player 2] so on and so forth.)

That is a great idea!

I never even thought of that before. I can't count how many times that before a mission someone was designated leader and pace setter, but others wound up drawing all over the screen creating unorganization, chaos and mass hysteria.

Ira Blinks · May 29, 2006, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demesis

ROFL

Of course not!

I'm just saying from my own personal experience

Ok, then I dont understand your point. You saying that you "turned out good" because you were a bully, and those kids are so rude because you've bullied them and now you pitty them.
So your message to all the kids out there the way I read it: Let's all be bullies and turture those who can not stand for themselves, so we can grow up nice people.
I'm sorry I do not find your post funny nor smart. I was bullied when I was a kid and I didn't like it. I was actually pretty big kid, but i was inviolent by nature, I just couldn't hit another person in the face. Because of that I was beaten up alot. And because of that I grew up exactly opposite. And if some dirty scum, cheap showoff and pathetic loser with long penis would dare to tell me in person something like you did on the first page, he would get his [email protected] neck broken so hard and fast he would even know what hit him.

Cador · May 29, 2006, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

It's the sad consequence of dual incoming families. As much as female activists would speak otherwise don't we all agree that such things are much less of an occurence back in the day when mothers actually *gasp* raise their kids?

Sadly capitalism FTW! Everybody, man and woman, needs to work nowadays so they can get their same XBOX360s and SUVs to keep up with the Joneses next door...

Hmm, I am trying to think of a good response without flaming. I am 17, My younger brother is 13, my younger sister is 11. My father owns a plant that manufactures gourmet food. My mother raised us all until i was about 11 and my sister was 5 and my brother was 7. At that point she got a job, not because she needed it because she wanted it, and you know what i dont blame her. I would go crazy sitting in a house all day. This being said I would have to disagree with you. From 11 on I was fairly independent and I have not been abusive to players in game, if something said about my religion throttles me i will argue however i will not flame. I feel that it is not the parents raising you it is the fact that your family has a strong set of values, and that your parents make sure you understand them, as long as that happens then we are fine, it is the parents that dont care that are the problem

If you dont like capitalism so much move to communist china, and bugger off the greatest country in the world.

Also, abuse is never acceptable

Demesis · May 29, 2006, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

Ok, then I dont understand your point. You saying that you "turned out good" because you were a bully, and those kids are so rude because you've bullied them and now you pitty them.
So your message to all the kids out there the way I read it: Let's all be bullies and turture those who can not stand for themselves, so we can grow up nice people.
I'm sorry I do not find your post funny nor smart. I was bullied when I was a kid and I didn't like it. I was actually pretty big kid, but i was inviolent by nature, I just couldn't hit another person in the face. Because of that I was beaten up alot. And because of that I grew up exactly opposite. And if some dirty scum, cheap showoff and pathetic loser with long penis would dare to tell me in person something like you did on the first page, he would get his [email protected] neck broken so hard and fast he would even know what hit him.

Dude, your problem is with that other fellow who keeps bullying you. Don't take it out on me though, I had nothing to do with whatever happened to you.

Which proves my point again, guys who are frustrated in real life will go on the internet to take out their rage on someone they don't even know.

Ira Blinks · May 29, 2006, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demesis

Dude, your problem is with that other fellow who keeps bullying you. Don't take it out on me though, I had nothing to do with whatever happened to you.

Which proves my point again, guys who are frustrated in real life will go on the internet to take out their rage on someone they don't even know.

I don't think you get it. The problem is not that people raging online. The problem is that people are frustrated in real life.
While apparently by your standards it is ok to hurt, piss off and humiliate in real life, but unacceptable online... No, it is not! You are dead wrong, and laughin will get you nowhere because it is not funny.

Griff Mon · May 29, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

It's really simple, actually. If you are focusing on the behavior and advising and/or coaching a player in-game in a unsolicited manner, then you have to be polite.

Example: Someone stands in a Chaos Storm and continues to fight/cast. If you tell the player that they should move out of the storm so they won't take damage, then you are just giving them helpful advice for the benefit of the team.

If you tell the player he is a stupid noob for standing in the storm, then it is abusive. That is a personal attack.

Unfortunately, some players take unsolicited coaching as an excuse to rage back at others.

About as bad as I allow myself to get, is to tell a player to leave the team politely, as they are not fitting in, have alienated themselves from the rest of the team, etc. If they are a real problem, the team just waits for them to die ingame and refuse to rez them. That is a big hint for them to go.

Gore · May 29, 2006, 02:34 PM // 14:34

OK Check this out

1 - i never would had hope there would have been a post on me ( lol )

2- in wich situation the " kid " went ballistic on yur wife or you

3 - are you one of those non stanced warior taht agro 50 enemys at once and make party die? Or those ELE agroer...Or MM with 1 Horror and useless vamp that play along....or those Assassins Tankers ?

4 - you dont want to be one of those around while playing with me

5 - read again point 4

6 - read again point 2

Now...why did those kids went on your case again ? becuse you made a master bonus so easy ?

If all this dose not represent an actual experience by you,,then i enjoy the opinion.....but again...im the worst mother around when it come at loosing my precious GW time...

what was point 2 again?

felinette · May 29, 2006, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

1. Under what circumstances does it become acceptable to abuse another player?

2. When is the line crossed from being angry to abusive?

3. Does animosity and lack of consequence of such behavior provided through the internet perpetuate abuse or is it the lack of monitoring children by parents?

1. Never

2. When a player is personally attacked. Politely point out how they can improve their gameplay if you feel the need. Anything beyond that is uncalled for.

3. I think the anonymity the game and the internet allows can make people act like jerks. I don't know why children are being singled out--adults can be just as abusive and stupid when nobody knows who they are. Bottom line--it's cowardly behavior.

Quote:

It's the sad consequence of dual incoming families. As much as female activists would speak otherwise don't we all agree that such things are much less of an occurence back in the day when mothers actually *gasp* raise their kids?

Right, so it's women's fault that people act like jerks. Sorry, but when someone acts like a jerk, it's his/her fault, nobody else's. The last thing we need is this ridiculous "It's mommy's fault I'm an asshole" mentality. And where is daddy in all of this--isn't it his responsibility to raise the children, too?

But it's moot, anyway. Back in the "good old days", it wasn't possible to take on another identity and participate in an online social environment where you could act like a jerk without anyone knowing who you really are. And we'll disagree about it being better in the "good old days"--lots of crap went on, but it was swept under the rug.

Andi DeMorte · May 29, 2006, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Whoa, whoa, whoa.... Ira... Demesis... Personal argument stops here, I won't have it in my thread. If you have a problem please take it privet.

Also for those commenting on the comment about "mothers actually raising their kids" I believe that you are taking that out of context... the point was that back in the day parents were more involved, not if your mother works that you will turn out bad. The point was also made that dual parent households can have the same problem in that post.

According to statistics, If you live in a single parent household your parents are less involved in you life and it does have a great effect on children and society... that is the point I believe was trying to be made. I think as intelligent people we know that there are always exceptions to the majority.

If ya'll wish to debate this point please start another thread...

*This has been an announcement of the emergency stay on topic broadcast service... please continue posting at normal speed*

~Andi

felinette · May 29, 2006, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andi DeMorte

Also for those commenting on the comment about "mothers actually raising their kids" I believe that you are taking that out of context... the point was that back in the day parents were more involved, not if your mother works that you will turn out bad. The point was also made that dual parent households can have the same problem in that post.

If the original post had said "when mothers AND FATHERS" actually raised their kids, and didn't take a swipe at feminists, maybe I'd believe you. But nice try, anyway.

Ira Blinks · May 29, 2006, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Andi DeMorte
there is a certain point to all this. Humans are not naturally intelligent, mature, compassionate, etc etc. Religion tells us that child is born in sin. I do not bear any kind of faith in my heart, but I do believe that is right. Child is born animal. You can teach it talk and walk straight, but w/o social values it will still be an animal.
Thus one can not expect specific person to be not a jerk after that assuming that specific person was heavily abused as a child.

On top of that I laugh feminists calling themselves mothers... eeesh

CorstedPirate · May 29, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

You know, sometimes people are just having a bad day and explode at someone without meaning to. Happened to me just yesturday morning, at least I really hope that the guy didn't mean to be such a jerk. Co-worker comes in says something that I thought was a joke, I laugh, suddenly he is screaming over and over DON'T LAUGH AT ME!!! He then says he could kill someone. I figure ok, this guy needs to be alone, so I tell him I'm leaving and left. Chalked it up to him being called in to work when he was supposed to have the day off. Of course that didn't give him the right to yell in my face.

No one should really feel like they need to be a jerk in game. Having a bad day and need to veg out to GW for a bit, ok play with henchies and yell at them. Feel like being a jerk just to be a jerk, ok, group chat turned off. I don't have to let anyone effect my game play with their jerkyness. I still do missions with PUGs, I have met some very nice people that way. Some jerks too, but somehow they are less memorable since they aren't on my list. Last jerk was the Nahpui Quarter mission, don't remember the jerk, but the topic was the inferiority of women. I put in my 2 cents that he needed to just stop when he didn't, group chat was turned off. No reason for me to freak out cause he is a jerk.

Those people that soak up healing then die and ask why I didn't heal them at all really get me foaming though.

EDIT:

Quote:

On top of that I laugh feminists calling themselves mothers... eeesh

Hmmmm...I am not entirely sure what you meant by that. Please elaborate so that we don't have a flame war like what happened in the other thread. I do agree with the rest of the post for the most part, but your last comment is in question.

LifeInfusion · May 29, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

In my guild the officers always joke about each other on Teamspeak and on guild chat it could have a different connotation, so I don't know what is "abusive" in chat is meant to be abusive.

i.e. If I get called a "noob" by someone i don't take it seriously.

felinette · May 29, 2006, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

On top of that I laugh feminists calling themselves mothers... eeesh

Um, AFAIK, it's not biologically impossible. Perhaps you don't understand what a feminist is. I can't imagine why a woman standing up for her rights means she can't be a decent mother, but whatever.

Demesis · May 29, 2006, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

I don't think you get it. The problem is not that people raging online. The problem is that people are frustrated in real life.
While apparently by your standards it is ok to hurt, piss off and humiliate in real life, but unacceptable online... No, it is not! You are dead wrong, and laughin will get you nowhere because it is not funny.

Of course it's funny, these people are too sissy to stand up for themselves that they have to rely on the anonymity of the internet. They know that nobody can catch them online no matter how jerky they are. That's just being a plain coward. If they're frustrated, they might as well confront me face to face instead of hiding behind a monitor screen, or a cat, or their moms.

Jeez, you should calm down, it's only a theory I made that these jerks are who they are because of bullies. There could be other reasons though.

NJudson · May 29, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Well, I guess I just haven't found my happy place yet because as I stated before when a player has played foolishly for the umteenth time and the party has tried to be nice and direct him and advise him to better his teamplaying skills, I can only take so much. (Ok, that was a bad run-on sentence) I almost always do bite my tongue and either don't say anything or try to say something politely, but enough is enough with some people. It's tough love....kinda like when a mother or father spanks their child. They may not want to do it, but for those that believe in the occasional corporal punishment (provided it really deserves it) then you just need to do it.

Some people just don't learn until they've found humiliation. Now I'm not saying that yelling at someone in the game will always yield positive results, but for a lot of people it will at least get them thinking about why their being yelled at and maybe.....just maybe they will have the mental capacity to re-evaluate their style of gameplay and make the necessary changes to become a better team player.