Curse

Alias_X · May 31, 2006, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Recently, running to Droks, I have been what I call "scammed" out of my money. Someone will join the party, be AFK throughout the run, then come back at the end, and never pay me. I PM the player saying "Why didn't you pay me?" or "If you don't pay me, be warned: you will be reported."

So I take screenshots, and send an email to report the player. I add the players name to my friends list, even though he/she will appear offline because he/she has ignored me, which I know because when I try to message him/her, it says "ingored." Later, when that player scams more people and has to add them to his ignore list, and he cleans out the old people, I see him appear online on my friends list. This has happened numerous times.

I would like an official response from Anet.

If a player doesn't pay someone who ran him, is that a bannable or suspendable offense?

What then, if the runner doesn't refund players if he doesn't make it completely to Droks, and they have already payed him/her money?

I know it is hard to draw a line on acceptable and not acceptable, because there is no contract between the runner and party, but please give me an official response.

Aera · May 31, 2006, 08:38 PM // 20:38

It's something you will have to live with it. Anet will probably do nothing about it, even if there is proof. It's the risk you take when running...

Big Tony · May 31, 2006, 08:42 PM // 20:42

I never heard about not paying for a run being a ban-able offense. Anet doesnt seem to mind running in Tyria and Cantha has all the locked gates to prevent it. I doubt they'll do anything to help you out, Alias X.

mushi · May 31, 2006, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Easy thing to do is make them show you the money before you start and then make them give you at least 1/2 - 3/4 of the money at halfway. If one of the group doesn't pay, tell the paying members to regroup at beacons and restart the run.

Eviance · May 31, 2006, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by mushi

Easy thing to do is make them show you the money before you start and then make them give you at least 1/2 - 3/4 of the money at halfway. If one of the group doesn't pay, tell the paying members to regroup at beacons and restart the run.

This is probably the best thing to do.... However once while trying to find a run I found a guy, he said show money outside.... Me and ONE other person showed him money - he freaked called us ALL scammers and refused to run even those of us who had shown the money. I hate scammers as much as I hate quitters -_-

But alas I doubt anet will do anything about either. They seem to be a part of the game that we are forced to live with likea plague. @OP Sorry for your loss. =/

generik · May 31, 2006, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by mushi

Easy thing to do is make them show you the money before you start and then make them give you at least 1/2 - 3/4 of the money at halfway. If one of the group doesn't pay, tell the paying members to regroup at beacons and restart the run.

The trouble is there are some runners (read, not so skilled) who'd need 5-6 attempts before they can even reach snake's dance. Would YOU as such a runner throw it all away because of a lost 2K? I don't think so, the wasted time can easily net you another round trip.

Stabber · May 31, 2006, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Offtopic: is the Beacons Perch->Droknar's Forge still a popular route? As in, can you still find several people seeking runners at any time of the day?

Mustache Mayhem · Jun 01, 2006, 12:00 AM // 00:00

used to run this for money- what I do is make them show the money up front and they pay half at snakes and then zone into grenths halfway down to pay the second half- too many scams at rankor/droks

Don Zardeone · Jun 01, 2006, 12:01 AM // 00:01

People don't run to Droks for armour anymore. Lions Arch has endgame armour too now (if you take the boat to cantha from lions arch).

Still, the southern Shiverpeaks is where the elite skills are.
So people still go there to have a startingpoint for elite skill cap runs.

Tickle · Jun 01, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustache Mayhem

used to run this for money- what I do is make them show the money up front and they pay half at snakes and then zone into grenths halfway down to pay the second half- too many scams at rankor/droks

This is probably the most effective way of handling the run and also the players money. If one does not pay I normally refund the money given to me and tell them who didn't pay and I'll be at Beacons if anyone would like to be run. Normally at the mention of the players name who tries to scam is enough of a warning that the other party members either, a) preassure him to pay. Or b) the scammer leaves and I'll continue the run. If neither of those happens then I'll map back to Beacons for those that really wish to make it to droknars. I know its a hardarsed approach but for security after been scammed a few times I also think its the proper course of events.

Caleb · Jun 01, 2006, 12:21 AM // 00:21

This is when having customers that prepay in full becomes extremely beneficial.

Big Tony · Jun 01, 2006, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Asking people to pay upfront is a little too similar to a scam itself. Many would rather go elsewhere than have the possibility of someone running off (no pun intended) with their hard earned gold. Mustache Mayhem has the best idea of having people pay in thirds or at each zone.

Evilsod · Jun 01, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tickle

This is probably the most effective way of handling the run and also the players money. If one does not pay I normally refund the money given to me and tell them who didn't pay and I'll be at Beacons if anyone would like to be run. Normally at the mention of the players name who tries to scam is enough of a warning that the other party members either, a) preassure him to pay. Or b) the scammer leaves and I'll continue the run. If neither of those happens then I'll map back to Beacons for those that really wish to make it to droknars. I know its a hardarsed approach but for security after been scammed a few times I also think its the proper course of events.

I did the same thing for the Elona Reach run. Occasionally you do find people that are willing to pay up front to cut the crap later on and let me get on with it. Too many scammers or those really funny 'afks' around, so i stopped doing that too, just the same reason i stopped the Droks run.

Don Zardeone · Jun 01, 2006, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Someone had a good idea a while back.

Imagine you're a runner and you run several people. Asking for the money right away isn't always a good idea because you can be called a scammer then.
What you can do instead is ask for collateral.

The person who wants to be run has to give an armourpart to the runner. A piece of armour is worthless to the runner but it is worth a lot to the guy who is getting run (unless it's starter armour... obviously).

After the run, the guy can buy back his piece of armour for the amount that the run cost him.

This probably won't always work in the droks run but it is ok for desert runs.

Evilsod · Jun 01, 2006, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Would you risk giving your armour to someone? Theres always the outside chance they'll err7 or lose connectivity. Besides, most people who need runs to Droknars are still wearing Pre-searing armour. Do you think they care if you don't give it em back? They're going to droks to buy some more for christ sake.

jummeth · Jun 01, 2006, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Zardeone

People don't run to Droks for armour anymore. Lions Arch has endgame armour too now (if you take the boat to cantha from lions arch).

Still, the southern Shiverpeaks is where the elite skills are.
So people still go there to have a startingpoint for elite skill cap runs.

I thought you need to be ascended to take the boat.

Shantel Span · Jun 01, 2006, 01:50 AM // 01:50

As both a runner and a runnee, I find that Droks runners:
- Have a 50/50 chance of getting scammed. So I offer them 4k total (1k more than the typical fee) - but 1k at Snake, 1k at Rankor, and the rest upon arrival. This can weed out the scammers.
- Have a 1/5 chance of getting someone competent that can do it routinely. -_-

As a Runner:
- Show money up front, either in the town or just after you go out the door,
- Make sure that the payment times are clear and understood,
- Be friendly and courteous even when dealing with a scammer/afk'er - this nets you brownie points. Brownie points = reputation and tips.

TheMosesPHD · Jun 01, 2006, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by jummeth

I thought you need to be ascended to take the boat.

Ya I think it said all ascended chars can get the quest and take the boat. Of course ya never know because they also say you have to be ascended to get into UW/FoW. When I brought my rit over I asked the ppl in ToA if I had to ascend my ritualist to get into FoW/UW. Monstrously pissed off for some reason, they all allcapsed a big "YES!!" and some of em even pmed me calling me a noob. 2 minutes later I was in the FoW cheesin' it up with a group. I think you do have to be ascended to pay grenth, but certainly not to just jump into a group and go in.

eternal pho · Jun 01, 2006, 02:00 AM // 02:00

I think you've gotten it the opposite way..when someone is reported regarding forge runs, it's the runner that gets reported, not the customer.

lord_shar · Jun 01, 2006, 03:05 AM // 03:05

As a Droks runner, I've reported deliquent passengers before, but their names never disappear from my "friends" list, so I assume that they are never punished for non-payment. Most passenger scammers usually bail at Camp Rankor when asked for partial payment. Given this info, anyone asking to be runned from Camp Rankor to Droknars forge has a good chance of being such a scammer. So, I never run them.