Curse

Rogmar · Jun 19, 2006, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y.T.

pray tell me whats wrong with 15^50? i just started war after playing casters cars (such as monky and mes) from betas, so basically i'm just trying to copy all good tanks i ever healed - they had no sundering weapons, smtimes they used +30hp weapons tho, they all had diff shileds so i'm not sure whats the best shield for the average war build, and most of them had 15^50 swords/axes.... i think 15/-10AR is dreadful, but whats wrong with 15^50?

Why is -10 AL dreadful when "Warriors are often not the primary targets in PvP - especially GvG."? Atleast there your damage is consistent while 15^50 is variable...
As for the fortitude mod, I'd rather be reducing the damage over time (not degen) with an armor mod (Defense/Shelter/Warding) rather than have a 30 extra health when my health is less than 50...

Doomlord_Slayermann · Jun 19, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

You guys are missing the point. 15^50 is not a bad mod. Some mods are just better in the majority of builds. I refuse to keep arguing with people who don't get that. Flame wars are pointless, but like it or not, more often than not there is a better mod than 15^50. Deal with it.

TadaceAce · Jun 20, 2006, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomlord_Slayermann

You completely miss the point. In PvP especially, but ideally also in PvE, you do not take mods that are "generally the strongest". You take the mods that are best for your specific build. In most cases this is actually the "(while enchanted)" or "(while in stance)" mods, depending on your build. 30 health also makes very little difference in most situations; you might be better off with a "Mastery" or "Enchanting" mod, although these make very little difference in PvP just like a "Fortitude" mod.

1. There is no build where you are enchanted more than you are health > 50% unless your a wammo. Even using a tainted necro.

2. While in stance, the only stances a war uses in real pvp is frenzy or sprint, neither of which you'll be in more than when your health > 50%.

3. Mastery mods... nobody uses these since the beginning of iway when idiots ran it before being taught.

4. Enchanting mods... what kind of warrior uses any enchants in real pvp let alone ones that an enchanting mod is worth having. (note I'm not talking about wammo nubs and their healing breeze / hands)

romO · Jun 20, 2006, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomlord_Slayermann

You guys are missing the point. 15^50 is not a bad mod. Some mods are just better in the majority of builds. I refuse to keep arguing with people who don't get that. Flame wars are pointless, but like it or not, more often than not there is a better mod than 15^50. Deal with it.

In my last post I refuted everything that you had said about the viability of damage mods. What you said in this post is virtually "No", which does not prove to be the strongest arguement. If you want to make your point and show us how any of these other mods could ever be better, you are going to need to start by providing counters to the points that I presented you with.

Doomlord_Slayermann · Jun 20, 2006, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by romO

In my last post I refuted everything that you had said about the viability of damage mods. What you said in this post is virtually "No", which does not prove to be the strongest arguement. If you want to make your point and show us how any of these other mods could ever be better, you are going to need to start by providing counters to the points that I presented you with.

Or I can just let you bicker with me while I agree with you.

Tien ak · Jun 20, 2006, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomlord_Slayermann

It's the "Wammo mentality". There are a good number of idiots out there that measure their success by how close their warrior is to being a FoW wearing w/mo with Mending, Healing Hands, and a perfect 15^50 20/20 sundering +30 heath Fellblade. It's idiotic, because FoW warrior armor looks ugly, sundering sucks, felblades are ugly, and fortitude is not that great a mod, nor is 15^50 (although it works well with most builds, thus the popularity).

Gah, we need more creativity where weapon mods are concerned.

/endrant

More W/mo hate how orignal

so why is sundering crap? you heard of strength thats right 1% for each point so you can have a maxium of 36 armor penatration...oh and judges insight adds an extra 20% on that to = P

so yeah sundering can be good as for your I think FoW and fellblades are ugly and whoever wears them is idiotic please...also I do think +30 hp is very usefull in my opionion.

It seriously pisses me off when people take the piss outta characters just beacuse you've met a few crap players.

Doomlord_Slayermann · Jun 20, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tien ak

More W/mo hate how orignal

so why is sundering crap? you heard of strength thats right 1% for each point so you can have a maxium of 36 armor penatration...oh and judges insight adds an extra 20% on that to = P

so yeah sundering can be good as for your I think FoW and fellblades are ugly and whoever wears them is idiotic please...also I do think +30 hp is very usefull in my opionion.

It seriously pisses me off when people take the piss outta characters just beacuse you've met a few crap players.

Sundering has a 20% chance to cause 20% extra penetration, or 1/5 of the time. That (1) is not all that often and (2) is not that much extra damage unless you're going after a very heavily armored target. Overall I think a mod like Vampiric would do about the same amount of extra damage and that heals you a bit as well.

Also, I happen to play W/Mo quite a bit (odd builds, but W/Mo's nonetheless) and I can tell that you missed my point. This is not "W/Mo hate". This is a rant against every idiot who thinks that people are n00bs unless the have this exact build and this exact equipment because apparently it makes you 10000000 times better than everyone else. It doesn't. Fortitude is a solid mod. 15^50% is a good mod, and the best for overall use, especially in the dynamics of PvE (it just is ever so slightly inferior for many builds in most situations in PvP). I prefer to use something other than Sundering because of it's low damage upgrade, but if you use that, fine with me.

Just don't be one of the idiots in LA 1 spamming "i g0tz t3h bezt gold fellblade in t3h game n00bz b0w to m3" while running arround in your FoW armor. THAT is the "Wammo mentality" that disgusts me.

Count to Potato · Jun 20, 2006, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomlord_Slayermann

15^50% is a good mod, and the best for overall use, especially in the dynamics of PvE (it just is ever so slightly inferior for many builds in most situations in PvP).

You might like to know this but if u have two swords 14^50 and 15^50 theres only 1% difference which if u calculate could be rounded up or down so the dmgs are nearly identical

Rogmar · Jun 21, 2006, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count to Potato

You might like to know this but if u have two swords 14^50 and 15^50 theres only 1% difference which if u calculate could be rounded up or down so the dmgs are nearly identical

Wow....He's talking about the actual mod's condition, not the damage numbers...
of course you're going to have 15/20% if you're in PvP...

Doomlord_Slayermann · Jun 21, 2006, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count to Potato

You might like to know this but if u have two swords 14^50 and 15^50 theres only 1% difference which if u calculate could be rounded up or down so the dmgs are nearly identical

Yeah. I knew that.

Lando Griffen · Jun 21, 2006, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonfilms

I disagree. Warriors are often not the primary targets in PvP - especially GvG. Midline and backline are. 15/50 is the best mod for warriors. Stances are much more conditional than 50% HP. Enchantment is fine if the build is designed around it (like bonding, Taint, etc).
But overall 15/50 IS THE BEST, especially when warriors have self healing. Yes Frenzy is a great stance, but you can't spam - unless you want to be the target of a spike (one of the few instances where warriors are spikeable by almost any build).

You must not be talking about pvp because in pvp, you're almost always going to be in a stance, and unless you brought healing signet, you have no self-healing. (I'm talking about sprint and frenzy...sprint isn't just there for running objects you know

)

15^50 is a lot more conditional, because there's absolutely no way to gaurantee that you'll be above 50%, but it's very easy to make sure you're in a stance.

Doomlord_Slayermann · Jun 21, 2006, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lando Griffen

You must not be talking about pvp because in pvp, you're almost always going to be in a stance, and unless you brought healing signet, you have no self-healing. (I'm talking about sprint and frenzy...sprint isn't just there for running objects you know

)

15^50 is a lot more conditional, because there's absolutely no way to gaurantee that you'll be above 50%, but it's very easy to make sure you're in a stance.

It's good to know that someone seems to have understood what I was saying.

Yichi · Jun 21, 2006, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tien ak

More W/mo hate how orignal

so why is sundering crap? you heard of strength thats right 1% for each point so you can have a maxium of 36 armor penatration...oh and judges insight adds an extra 20% on that to = P

so yeah sundering can be good as for your I think FoW and fellblades are ugly and whoever wears them is idiotic please...also I do think +30 hp is very usefull in my opionion.

It seriously pisses me off when people take the piss outta characters just beacuse you've met a few crap players.

Sundering is crap because it also is conditional, as it only has a 1 in 5 chance of actually doing damage with the mod. Depending on the build, most warriors in PVP/GVG will use either vampiric or zealous (zealous for more energy heavy builds, and vampiric for more adrenaline based builds) as it is a much more reliable mod than sundering.

Most of the time youre only runnign judges insight in a dual smite build, and any mesmer can shatter that enchant, so that is nto a valid argument, and if youre a warrior bringing judges insight, you deserve to be shot IMO. Judges insight is another conditional skil lto be added to your sundering. Blurred vision or blind and it doesnt matter if you have judges or not on, youre not doing the extra armor penetration with judges at all.

Stregnth does add 1% to armor penetration, but most good GVG/PVP builds have verry little in the form of stregnth where as tactics line is abotu the same as str. if running a typical axe build, youre normally at 16/10/10 or 16/9/11 so the str bonus doesnt make up or add to the sundering mod that well.

the FOW armor and fellblade look can be debated, the only plus to the fow armor that now the canthan armors have was the ability to blend diff armors and still keep a unified look so people couldnt always see the exact armor combo and be able to tell the type of war build youre running, although that point is kind of mute due to there being a certian number of builds out there that are truly effective in the current pvp structure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lando Griffen

You must not be talking about pvp because in pvp, you're almost always going to be in a stance, and unless you brought healing signet, you have no self-healing. (I'm talking about sprint and frenzy...sprint isn't just there for running objects you know

)

15^50 is a lot more conditional, because there's absolutely no way to gaurantee that you'll be above 50%, but it's very easy to make sure you're in a stance.

Yes in pvp a great deal of the time you will be in a stance, yet you do have your monks and normally some form or two of a heal party, so you will normally be above 50% health more than in stance. and when youre not, youre either retreating towards monks or turtling and not attackign either way, so it makes really no difference as to the stance vs 15>50 mod debate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogmar

Why is -10 AL dreadful when "Warriors are often not the primary targets in PvP - especially GvG."? Atleast there your damage is consistent while 15^50 is variable...
As for the fortitude mod, I'd rather be reducing the damage over time (not degen) with an armor mod (Defense/Shelter/Warding) rather than have a 30 extra health when my health is less than 50...

The -10 armor is dreadful because while not being the primary target in GVG/PVP, you can eb hit for extra damage from AoE spells such as rodgorts that target nearby foes as well. MAelstrom is another good example for bodygaurds. combine this with being in frenzy can really add up too aditional dmg that you dont need to take.

It has been calculated that an ar+5 always is only about the same as a minor rune of absorbtion, although i forgot where i have seen this calculation, so i may be wrong, but in most cases the extra health from a fortitude mod can be much more beneficial against spikes/degen than a defense mod. the only time i would take a defense mod over a fort mod would be if im running a solo PVE build, in which case i agree with you that the mods/dmg mod/suffix.prefix is more conditional than in PVP.