Curse

Fox Reeveheart · Jun 23, 2006, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Simple question i would like your opinion on o.o.

Ever since factions its just been a FLOOD of A's and Rits, many groups have ONLY been those two. But onto the real question

With everyone and his best friend's uncle making a ritualist, do you think that ritualists maxed out in restoration will become the next healing monks? Or better yet, which one does better?

BowLad21 · Jun 23, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Restore Rits can be useful holding the team together, but I have yet to see them keep up with a real monk. Monks have large healing, (Word of Healing, Heal Other), and more support attributes. Ritualists have one support attribute.
Real monks>Ritualists, in healing.
EDIT: btw, where do you see this flood? I've never seen too many assasins, when I finished the game with my monk, I was only in a group with an assasin twice, once for the temple, and once for unwaking.

Jetdoc · Jun 23, 2006, 01:57 PM // 13:57

I think that it will be the logical second choice, as there already was a deficiency of monks in most towns before Factions.

With the fad of Factions, most parties are looking for any type of healing...

TheSonofDarwin · Jun 23, 2006, 02:04 PM // 14:04

The next healing monks? I doubt it. However, I think they give Prot monks a good run for their money.

I see ritualists as more group support and monks as more ally-specific support. Each does their own thing quite well, but dabbles in the other's job too.

EternalTempest · Jun 23, 2006, 02:13 PM // 14:13

No, just because Rit is unique to factions and not everyone is going to own it once 2-3 more chapter's are out.

Not only that the developer mention that the campagin jobs (Rit/Sin) are for more specialized and not designed to replace the Monk core job.

Monks have the Divine attribute and can out heal, that being said nothing wrong with a rit healer either (same as e/mo).

samifly · Jun 23, 2006, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Rits are good team heal/protectors, while monks are good individiual heal/prot. you need both.

Astraea Zopyros · Jun 23, 2006, 02:17 PM // 14:17

I've played both a Ritualist (Mostly as a Ritmo, otherwise I have trouble finding a group! :P) and a Monk. A Ritualist is very capable, and is a very versatile character that can take on a supportive role easily. However, most times, when I am working as a Ritmo, I find myself relying primarily on Healing Prayers for my healing power--not restoration. Restoration comes into play with the prevention of damage--like protection prayers, but in Ritualist format. Healing will probably always be done best by a Healing monk, who has the opportunity to max Healing with runes and scalp designs, as well as Divine Favor.

konohamaru heaven · Jun 23, 2006, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Ritualists make better Stablity healers over monks, but when it comes to massive heals a Monk still tends to be king/queen.

Skuld · Jun 23, 2006, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Restoration heals aren't that great, al ot need buffing. Maybe they will become big, but not because they are better, just because there are more ritualists

Mustache Mayhem · Jun 23, 2006, 03:24 PM // 15:24

divine favor makes monks better at healing =] but a ritual lord caps damage on the whole team better than a protection monk can do in pve.. they kinda like ranger spirit spammers with a really fast recharge

teklys · Jun 23, 2006, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Having both a Ritualist and a Monk I think the Ritualist will eventually become more of a type of insurance for group. The primary healer of the game is the Monk and I think that'll just be the way it is. But including a Rit into a group should allow Mo players do load up a few skills they might not have had room on the skillbar for before (more condition removal, for example).

Amity and Truth · Jun 23, 2006, 04:25 PM // 16:25

With the use of Ritual Lord i'd say that a Ritualist easily outmatches a protection based monk (honestly, we will probably see either Ritual Lord or Boon of Creation getting the Nerfstick, due to their sheer power and necessity in almost every spirit spamming build) while pretty much any Primary Monk (Minus Smiter) outmatches the ritualist when it comes to healing... though the ritualist can pull of some insane party healing when he is prepared for it.

oljomo · Jun 23, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Hi

Basically imo a monk is better at spike healing, whereas a rit is better at pressure.

A monk has to be careful not to overheal or he will have energy problems, but a rit can jsut sit and spamhiw spells all day long ithout stopping (well in my buidl anyway) with the only roblem being recharge.

The other problem with rits as healers is the casting time of most of their spells, quite often the heal is too slow to actually stop heal the person.

oljomo

Zinger314 · Jun 23, 2006, 05:47 PM // 17:47

I disagree with everyone in this topic

Ritualists are better Healers than Monks.

Three words: Attuned Was Songkai

That nearly halves energy costs (at 13 Spawning). In theory, that would give Ritualists nearly a double Energy Pool and nearly double the Energy Regeneration.

Also factor in Soothing Memories. For Ritualists with an urn, that's a FREE HEAL. For Ritualists with AwS, you GAIN ENERGY

Rits may not defeat Monks w/ Divine Favor, but they can last much, much longer.

teklys · Jun 23, 2006, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

I disagree with everyone in this topic

Ritualists are better Healers than Monks.

You make some good points. But I think the problem isn't in energy management as much as it is in the recharge times on the Ritualist's direct heals that is the "problem" when compared to Monks. The Monk's heals might not be much quicker on recharge time than the Ritualist's spells but when you add in the effects of Divine Favor the Monk's heals we be large enough to keep someone alive when the crap hits the fan and spells are recharging.

Burton2000 · Jun 23, 2006, 06:06 PM // 18:06

But any decent monk in pvp has good energy managment skills so should never really run out of energy.

Grammar · Jun 23, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

"I disagree with everyone in this topic

Ritualists are better Healers than Monks.

Three words: Attuned Was Songkai

That nearly halves energy costs (at 13 Spawning). In theory, that would give Ritualists nearly a double Energy Pool and nearly double the Energy Regeneration.

Also factor in Soothing Memories. For Ritualists with an urn, that's a FREE HEAL. For Ritualists with AwS, you GAIN ENERGY

Rits may not defeat Monks w/ Divine Favor, but they can last much, much longer."

^^^ Last longer? Longevity is not the issue here. A propery built monk will quite literally never run out of energy and will be able to heal indefinitely (unless mesmers start messing with them).

The issue here isn't longevity, it's potency.
A ritualistst lacks a monk's potencty when it comes to healing, simple as that. A Monk with maxed out healing prayers and divine favor will absolutely destroy a ritualist and/or E/Mo in healing potency.

And the energy pool argument for ritualists is irrelavant as well, for the same reason it's irrelavant for E/Mo's.
Again, a propery built monk never runs out of energy, so their lower energy pool is irrelavant.

Don't get me wrong, the ritualist class is a fantastic support class, but don't confuse them for monk-usurpers.

Rogmar · Jun 23, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fox Reeveheart

With everyone and his best friend's uncle making a ritualist, do you think that ritualists maxed out in restoration will become the next healing monks? Or better yet, which one does better?

I think Ritualist + Monk is much better than 2 Monks. But no one wants to change...

Khift · Jun 23, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Monks are better, hands down. At least in terms of healing. The only kind of defensive monk that is worse than a ritualist is passive prot which has been completely obsoleted by ritual lords.

All it boils down to is efficiency. Not just energy efficiency, but time efficiency as well. Restoration rits can be very energy efficient, I'll give them that much -- Songkai + Soothing Memories is a very potent combination. However, it isn't time efficient. Longer casting times, longer recharges, less health per heal, and most importantly the lack of divine favor says that although you'll be doing more healing per point of energy you'll be doing alot less healing per second. This is why boonprot is so popular -- it is very inefficient with their energy and must bring MoR/EDrain/OoB to counteract that, but is extremely time efficient, allowing it to stop spikes and simultaneously keep the team healed while kiting enemy warriors. (Also, although off topic, boonprots are popular because they're applicable against nearly any team. This inherent flexibility when combined with time efficiency is what makes boonprots so powerful.)

Additionally, restoration rits are alot less flexible. They only have a handful of different healing spells and these spells have very little overlap. Soothing Memories is only amazing when you've holding an urn, Mend Body and Soul and Spirit Light only when you bring spirits, Vengeful Weapon and Weapon of Warding only against warriors, Wielder's Boon only when using weapon spells, etc. etc. All of their healing spells are heavily conditional and the conditions have too little overlap.

As a final note, restoration rits only have one decent elite -- Songkai. Monks are not limited to this at all. Beyond energy managment elites, monks have WoH, BLight, RC, SBreaker, Life Sheathe, and Shield of Deflection, in addition to many more experimental elites that could be played with. Restoration rits are railroaded into Songkai.

All these things add up to say that restoration rits are more or less completely inferior to real monks. They aren't time efficient, they aren't flexible, they have no options with their builds, their heals are too conditional and in general they just don't compare.

That said, I loves me some ritual lords. Now THAT's what I like in a defensive character. I'd gladly use one WoH or BLight heal monk + one ritual lord in a PvE setting.

3> ritual lords.

Former Ruling · Jun 23, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Well Lets compare.

Flesh of My Flesh - Faster than most monk rezzes, at the cost of half your health. I think it beats SOME monk rezzes...but monks still have the best pve rez (Rebirth).

Now for real heals:
Mend Body and Soul - Gives a 90 heal, and a conditional condition removal. for a 3/4 5e cast, and 3 recharge. I really think this is the only one that is truly better than comparable monk spells. for only 1 sec more than most healing prayers, Orison is gonig to heal more because of Divine Favor, but you get a faster cast time, and some healing that actually has a chance to remove conditions (no Healing Prayers do that).

Resilient Weapon - For 10e on a 4 recharge, you can get conditional +6 regen and some armor for ~20 secs. This is going to be compared with Healing breeze. Giving an unconditional +9 regen for the same cast and cost, recharges alittle faster, and only lasts 12 secs (factoring in 20% longer). Most people are going to prefer Healing Breeze. Resilient might last alittle longer and give some armor to softies, but the Regen is totally conditional on them having a condition (which is better for you to just remove), and that regen most of the time barely out regens the degen from most conditons.

Soothing Memories - Has a decent heal of 106, on a 5 sec recharge. And it only costs you little energy if you are holding an item. Holding most items already lowers your max energy, so I think this is merely a coverup ability for this skill...It costs less energy, but you also have less energy in the first place. Orison is going to give you about the same heal (factoring in Divine) on only a 2sec recharge.....

Spirit Light - Their "big heal", on 10e, 1sec cast, and 4 recharge. Heals about 162, and you take a health sac if not near a spirit. HORRIBLE compared to its closest monk skill - Heal Other. Heal other is faster casting, for MUCH MORE HEALING (even before divine), smaller recharge, and no health sac.

Spirit Light Weapon - An elite. on a 5/1/5. I best compare this to Healing Breeze myself, healing has faster recharge though. 10 secs each, though Breeze is an enchant so it can be made last longer but can also be stripped. 16 each sec from Light is +8 regen where healing gives +9 but degen can make Breeze less effective. Light up to this point is smelling like roses because it costs less, and as SLIGHTLY better things going for it, but then you read the last sentence..Ends if they arent near a spirit. OHHHHH...So at first its a slightly better Healing Breeze Elite, I could deal with that, but they had to give it a negative "end early" condition (which BTW, makes this less than an effective healing spell for warriors).

Spirit Transfer - This is where it is for Ritualists, their BIGGEST heal. healing 237 (conditionally) for 10 1/4 10. lets compare to Heal Other. This casts slightly faster, but has a WAY longer recharge. Factoring in Divine Favor, this SLIGHTLY outheals Heal Other. But again...its conditional...You HAVE to have a spirit near you, and if that spirit doesn't have atleast 79 health left by the end of this casting, this spell is totally wasted. Its recharge already makes this the worse of the two, but they had to go and give it a condition for healing that much too.

Vengeful Weapon - A better Reverse of Fortune without divine factoring in. One of the few gems for the Restoration Ritualist. Its not that effective as a heal (63 at 16) but that health is likely to outdmg the attack, and strike the enemy for alittle too. RoF auto heals for your Divine Favor, but its actual healing is dependent on the enemies strength, but has the potential to heal more.

Weapon of Warding - all in all, its cost outweighs its advantages. LONG cast, decent recharge. regen is almost nothing (especially under a degen condition), and is 50% "block" really worth 2 sec cast and 10e...

Wielder's Boon - 105 heal conditionally for 5 1 4. Again...Orison factoring Divine is going to heal around the same UNCONDITIONALLY and recharges faster....