Curse

Sjeng · Jul 06, 2006, 07:04 AM // 07:04

I consider myself to be an experienced player, having finished prophecies 4 times with Protector title, and currently playing Factions. It's true that with a good team, like your own guildies, you can beat PvE missions fairly easy, but I still think some missions are pretty challenging. I can only finish those with a good (guildie) team. Playing it with strangers often results in above mentioned frustration / quitters. Playing with henchmen sucks in the South Shivers and Fire Isles. Believe me, I've tried. Apparently some people are so incredibly good at controlling the henchies, that Hell's is "easy". Ah well, I think it's fine the way it is. Tough enough. It's bad enough that I have to wait untill there's enough guildmates or friends online willing to help with tough missions to finally finish them, because I'm unable to do it with henchmen and get frustrated by quitters / noobs.

dreamhunk · Jul 06, 2006, 07:10 AM // 07:10

it is pretty sad when it hard yo play my favrite class in some aera, because your toon doesnot fit the cookie cutter builds out there!

jackie · Jul 06, 2006, 07:31 AM // 07:31

To me, PvE in GW is bit too easy to give a proper challenge & I'm hoping there would come some great challenges in future chapters.

Raxxman · Jul 06, 2006, 08:54 AM // 08:54

if you find it too easy why not just cut your group size down? More loot for you.

There are ways you can handicap yourself to create more of a challange, while if the game was too hard it becomes more difficult to let the 'average' player through.

Also you have to remmeber that a lot of people will not know what to expect during a mission. While if you know what to expect you can take a more effective build.

Silent Kitty · Jul 06, 2006, 09:34 AM // 09:34

This game is way to difficult for me and this topic makes me sad.

Draco Hunt · Jul 06, 2006, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Most off the players i encounter on these forums are experienced in both PvE and PvP. Thats why you gewt loads of these topics about it is to easy. But also consider the huge complaint trhead about the mini-missions of the Dragon Festival. Suddenly players got something new and needed to addept. That is the whole point. After you have addepted to the challanges in PvE it becomes easier(to even to easy to bother). The more experienced player will addept in no time because he knows his own character well and the skills he needs to use to tackle problems.

Yes this game was origenaly made for the average player, but as we all know the game is somehow addictive

. For that this games scores good on the charts and gives enough challenge as it is. The more experienced player will seek out other challanges like making solo builds, making special builds to tackle missions/area's with a smaller group(to the extend of making it a service to earn some cash from the lazy or stuck player), running and so on.

In Pve the challange is made by yourself and the people arround you. This is what makes the game so much fun to play.

Pro-Monk · Jul 06, 2006, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Most of the posters in the fansite forums are experienced players and hopefully Anet discounts their requests to make the overall game "harder". If the OP finds missions/quests too easy, that's fine, do them solo with a crappy build if you need more of a challenge. Then again, maybe you've "beat" this game and it's time to move on to something different.

Seems like Anet has done a decent job of providing challenges for the experienced PvE player with special areas like FOW, UW, The Tombs, etc. IMO the overall quests/missions are sufficiently difficult as they are now.

Sir Mad · Jul 06, 2006, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Quote:

the only thing the AoE radius thing did was nerf elementalists

Smiters anyone?

-Loki- · Jul 06, 2006, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

the only thing the AoE radius thing did was nerf elementalists

Trappers?

Selket · Jul 06, 2006, 12:01 PM // 12:01

Clearly, it takes true intellect to realize that playing with bad players means that you won't do well.

You can 3-man anything if you try hard enough. We've done it with FoW.

Dark Dragon · Jul 06, 2006, 12:11 PM // 12:11

If you find it too easy i have some tips for you(ie. self handicap):
1. use a smaller group
2. use weaker armour(ie. starter armour)
3. use less of your skill bar (ie. only use 4 out of the 8 your have)
4. use weaker weapons (ie. starter weapons)
5. don't use all your attribiute poitns (only assign 100 out of the 200)

can't think of anymore right now might post some more. But it is easy to make the game harder just by handicapping yourself. Look at many RPGs out there that put challeges out for hardcore players (ie FF7, solo no material etc...).

Now do all the above and still say the game is too easy

Demesis · Jul 06, 2006, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Dragon

If you find it too easy i have some tips for you(ie. self handicap):
1. use a smaller group
2. use weaker armour(ie. starter armour)
3. use less of your skill bar (ie. only use 4 out of the 8 your have)
4. use weaker weapons (ie. starter weapons)
5. don't use all your attribiute poitns (only assign 100 out of the 200)

can't think of anymore right now might post some more. But it is easy to make the game harder just by handicapping yourself. Look at many RPGs out there that put challeges out for hardcore players (ie FF7, solo no material etc...).

Now do all the above and still say the game is too easy

I'll give 100k to the first person who can complete Prophecies naked and solo.

Silent Kitty · Jul 06, 2006, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demesis

I'll give 100k to the first person who can complete Prophecies naked and solo.

I'll get 7 guildies and we'll split the 100K

Anyway, it is against my principe to play nekkid. That is more for the average 12 years old.

raven214 · Jul 06, 2006, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth`

You shouldn't think of the challenges in PvE coming from the enemies. They come from the players, just like PvP.

(in case it wasn't implied enough, I'm saying the noobs and leavers are what makes PvE hard)

Exactly.... the real challenge in PvE comes from ragequiters, leechers, noobs (I won't call them that in-game as I know we all are noobs at some point, but it's still something you have to deal with), and the total and utter lack of control over the mentally challenged henchmen.

For example, a couple weeks ago I was trying to do the Nolani mission with my newly created necro... I've never had serious problems with the mission (the bonus is another story lol), but this time people just could not seem to follow along with the group..... rushing forward to open the gate from inside and insta-die/get Rurik killed, not bringing res (I don't understand why people don't bring it on missions... it's a must!), or getting everyone killed and then leaving the game 30 seconds from a cutscene, where we would've been auto-res'd and able to continue the mission without him.

Until these things get fixed, and I'm not holding my breath, I think PvE is plenty difficult as it is.

Dark Dragon · Jul 06, 2006, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by raven214

I won't call them that in-game as I know we all are noobs at some point, but it's still something you have to deal with

I disagree with this point but manly because i have my own deffinite of n00bs

i beileve we where all newbies(newbs) at one point but only some become n00bs

heres my deffinitions

newbie - someone who is new to the game and is not used to the working of it but is willing ot learn from there mistakes, and therefore becoming a better player

n00b - somone who is unwilling to learn and still does the same annoying crap that gets the whole team killed, like lvl20's aggroing everything, my god you got to lvl 20 you should know that that doesnt work.

/rant over

lol

raven214 · Jul 06, 2006, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Dragon

I disagree with this point but manly because i have my own deffinite of n00bs

i beileve we where all newbies(newbs) at one point but only some become n00bs

heres my deffinitions

newbie - someone who is new to the game and is not used to the working of it but is willing ot learn from there mistakes, and therefore becoming a better player

n00b - somone who is unwilling to learn and still does the same annoying crap that gets the whole team killed, like lvl20's aggroing everything, my god you got to lvl 20 you should know that that doesnt work.

/rant over

lol

LOL

Fair enough... I didn't think to distinguish between the two.

WasAGuest · Jul 06, 2006, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

They did throw in a few hoops for us hardcore players like Urgoz, Furnace, FoW, UW, and The Deep.

I agree, so I still wonder why we are locked out of most of this content.

OT of the PvE leavers and such, this is why we need improved henchies. This will become more and more common with more chapters released as the population spreads out even more. Thus making the older missions more and more difficult and void of people.

I've tried for a week now to get a PuG (which I hate doing) just to kill Glint for the title on another of my characters. Ten tries now and each time the group has made it to Glint we have about 3 to 4 people left... even after requesting people that are there for the bonus an no caps, join. Most of the guildies I group with have taken to other games because of this and due to the fact that Factions just didn't keep their attention... so we need better henchies.

raven214 · Jul 06, 2006, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

I agree, so I still wonder why we are locked out of most of this content.

OT of the PvE leavers and such, this is why we need improved henchies. This will become more and more common with more chapters released as the population spreads out even more. Thus making the older missions more and more difficult and void of people.

I've tried for a week now to get a PuG (which I hate doing) just to kill Glint for the title on another of my characters. Ten tries now and each time the group has made it to Glint we have about 3 to 4 people left... even after requesting people that are there for the bonus an no caps, join. Most of the guildies I group with have taken to other games because of this and due to the fact that Factions just didn't keep their attention... so we need better henchies.

That is one of my major concerns for the future of GW PvE... it is much easier to handicap one's self (as mentioned earlier) if you find it too easy, than it is to buff yourself/a team of ignorant hench if you find yourself in an abandoned outpost because everyone is off playing the new chapter.

Erasculio · Jul 06, 2006, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell.Crowe

Obviously not, because we 3 manned the last mission easily

What you fail completely to grasp is that the last mission of both games isn't exactly the hardest of them. Who cares if you can finish the last mission solo, if it isn't the hardest one (and if it isn't even a hard one)?

You, like many people, "obviously" lack the concept of sample. One mission is not enough to claim that an entire game is hard or not. A single episode (you beating it with 3 people) isn't enough to qualify how hard a mission is or isn't.

If your point is, "the Lich is too easy to kill", I would agree with you - that's what you saw (and that has been mentioned for a long time now). If your point is "the Lich is easy so the entire PvE is too easy"...Well...Think again.

(Shiro is hard to kill, by the way, unless you have a Warrior in your group - his is the only Celestial Skill that makes it easier. Try to kill him without a Warrior and you'll see what happens - or even better, hench him as something that is not a Warrior and you'll see.)

Erasculio

XvArchonvX · Jul 06, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

In response to the OP, this game is largely designed to be able to be completed with less than a full party in many cases because people do lag out or have to leave mid-mission for whatever reason. Yes, you can complete all the missions relatively easy, but if you need a challenge, get a masters on everything. This is why they have this new system. It is designed so that people new to the game can still progress instead of banging their heads against a wall just because they don't have tons of experience with all the skills and how to use them. However it also leaves the possibility for veteran players to reach for a higher goal. This is also why there are Elite missions like Deep and Urgoz.

I personally would not want A-net to alienate new players or veterans, but pleasing both is never easy, nor is it ever perfect. If the new players don't like the game, it won't sell and A-net won't be able to continue to invest in it. If the veteran players stop playing, no one will stick with the game and further expansions won't be desired as much, thus leaving A-net being unable to continue to invest in it. The balance is what makes this game work.