Curse

Tal Lightbringer · Jul 11, 2006, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

I've said this before and got flame-broiled for it, but those reading this currently seem mature minded, so I'll say it here again for comments or discussion... discussion is key, flameboys can go play something else and relax.

Factions, while had a few weeks of game play (for all six of my characters), is very weak at it's best in PvE game play. Becoming employees of Fed-Ex or working on the farm is in no way shape or form fun. What the Anet devs were thinking is beyond me. I firmly believe that if the devs had spent less time on figuring out ways to merge PvE and PvP we would have more game to play with.

I'm not blaming PvP here, as I think PvP got the shaft as well. I've seen so many complaints about lack of new PvP game play that I began to wonder what the devs were doing.

This is my opinion here; the opinion will not change so don't try to change it, but I am interested in hearing others' opinions on this:

PvE is the game's content. It needs more content and it needs a lot more game play and time spent on it. Each chapter should have at least 40 hours per character through the end of missions and story line. Quests, if done like Factions should not be counted in towards that timeline as they were nothing but "go-fer" and "Fed-Ex" silliness. If the add quests with some purpose, such as earning a weapon, armor or something valid then sure.

PvP does not need content nor does it need to be tied in with the game story or content. Factions tries to add content into the PvP with the AB, but I don't think anyone really cares for the story of it, rather they are caring whether it is fun and action packed. Am I wrong there?
PvP is contentless game play (this is not a bad thing - read below)*, where the players are the content and the fun. I would imagine that PvP needs more maps, and more game play enviroments in which to play in, not some weakly tied in story modes that have no purpose.

Contentless is not a bad thing in PvP. Look at GvG. What's the point? What's the story behind it? Where's the content and story? There's isn't one. It's all about the fun factor and action. Anyone play CS? Quake, UT... Who cared about why you were there, we were there for the action.

Hopefully we can discuss that, as I would love to see real opinions on it and not some fool flameboys attempt at derailing the conversation with strawman arguments. Agree or disagree, I would love to hear it in your own words without quoting or trying to disassemble another's post.

Absolutely agree with this. Factions looks severely rushed to me. A point I'd like to reiterate, the voice acting, if you can call it that, is HORRIBLE, and that is being conservative.

yspark901 · Jul 12, 2006, 01:52 AM // 01:52

I agree with that people can have good conversation. I've had quite alot, and my guildies once were strangers, and now we have good time. However, you can't ignore so many people in random arena calling each other noobs, whos better and what not, and in pve, places where there are lot of people, most of the time all you see is WTB or WTS. the thing is, I think the chat system should have a thing where you can say something to people near you, and not all can hear you. like normal chat in RO, or !chat system in Diablo 2. Also, this topic has nothing to do with pvp vs. pve. I like the pvp aspect of it, especially guild battle. However, it is so focused around that, and pve just seems to not get interesting. Usually this happens when someone reaches the max level of the game and all. but WoW, pve begins when you're max level. 20 men raids, 40 men raids, all really well done. I'm not saying that GW should just copy whatever WoW has. it shouldn't. but they should make the pve world a bit more diverse... in my opinion.

yspark901 · Jul 12, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53

just a question, what does "op" mean..?

Erasculio · Jul 12, 2006, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

If the add quests with some purpose, such as earning a weapon, armor or something valid then sure.

That's exactly the kind of suggestion that I hope is never implemented in GW. If you want to keep the mentality of "good reward = new item", go play WoW or any other MMORPG out there. The quests in Factions, unlike most questions in Prophecies, add to the storyline by telling the player more about the world he's in - almost all the quests in Prophecies after Ascalon were just "go to place X for the next mission", while this time we have not only different quests, but also things that show how the world of Cantha works.

And then comes someone who wants to get "weapon, armor or something valid" out of these quests. If they had that kind of reward, then they would be grinding.

But hey, I guess I'm another "flaming fanboy" or something. It's good to see someone who dismisses criticism even before such criticism is said - shows how some people shouldn't be allowed to comment on something if they can't take comments on their own opinions.

Quote:

just a question, what does "op" mean..?

"Original Poster", the guy who made the first post in the topic (in other words, the person who began the topic).

Erasculio

WasAGuest · Jul 12, 2006, 03:17 AM // 03:17

@Erasculio - thank you for the post; up untill the end it was interesting to read. I don't agree with your point of view, and you obviously don't agree with mine; but thank you for sharing your thoughts on it.

Not sure why you took offence to my asking that flameboys not reply, you didn't flame. I asked that those that reply state their opinions on the game and not other's opinions and you did that. So again, not sure why you took offence.

Anyway, I'll take the advise in your post title and add you to the ignore list.

- jk

Thallandor · Jul 12, 2006, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meo Yeong

Baldur's gate was ok but omg they just wouldn't shutup in 2 lol. Fallout ftw lol

And I read somewhere and may be just rumour but they said chapter 3 would be not heavy in pve content and based for the pvp player. Think I might have read that on this site.

I recently went back to play BG2 and found myself engrossed on it for hours on ends, if only there was BG2 online or something and discovered some fundemental problems with GW PvE experience:

What you do have little or no influence on your character and beyond on how your character looks, theres no Character Development at all, both in terms with the questing/mission system and also in the way the hencies pretending to interact.

Sadly PvE will always be the red headed stepchild under the guise of marketing for the PvP game which is Guildwars.

If C3's PvE content is going to strip even more PvE content than the half-assed job which is factions, then we can see where is game is headed for in the future.

DrSLUGFly · Jul 12, 2006, 04:51 AM // 04:51

I haven't played Factions yet, so perhaps my comments are out of place... I quite liked the cut scenes in Tyria (although it's true that a great deal of the voice action was more like comic relief).

Personally, what I most wanted out of PvE in Tyria was as follows:

1) FAR FAR out of the way outposts (to which you can't map travel) that offer unique quests, randomly generated: Go to XX(place)XX and XX(find, rescue, kill)XX whoever/whatever. Possibly with a time limit. Surely it wouldn't be too tough to add a few variables to make this likely. And it would give more of a reason to explore distant areas, and make those areas more special since it would be pointless to get runs and you couldn't just focus on getting there and then log off to continue later. It would make it feel more epic and important.

2) legendary beasts: I had suggested this long ago and I think it's a brilliant idea. There should be a massive dragon like creature, something that could make Glint run off with her tail between her legs, maybe even several. Things that only show up once a week or every couple weeks. When it shows up you suddenly get clues from certain NPCs that a "terrible beast" was spotted to the West. No further information. Yout then map travel west (or east, south etc.) and find out the location from an NPC there. Using these clues you triangulate on the beast and figure out which zone it's in, and then enter that zone with a capable party and hunt it down. It would drop nice loot, and a unique stackable "trophy" such as a claw from it's paw, a scale, a tooth, whatever.

3) World PvP: There is one way in which world pvp could be implemented into GW. Have PvP zones, when you enter an instance portal, you get to choose "PvE zone" (as it is now), "Join PvP in progress" (get a list of team leaders so that you can join them to either help with epic creatures or compete for other creatures, loot or just fight. Each team leader would have a timer beside them showing how long they've been in the zone. Max 6 full teams per zone depending on zone size.) or "PvP zone enabled" (start a new instance but allow other teams to join your zone.)

4) PvP map fix: Same as #3 except that you can choose PvP only in a zone so that your map is a straight vs (win by death count) in a regular play area instead of the designated PvP maps, no MOBs in these zones.

Kuja · Jul 12, 2006, 06:14 AM // 06:14

I agree with OP on everything

Rieselle · Jul 12, 2006, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erasculio

The quests in Factions, unlike most quests in Prophecies, add to the storyline by telling the player more about the world he's in - almost all the quests in Prophecies after Ascalon were just "go to place X for the next mission", while this time we have not only different quests, but also things that show how the world of Cantha works.

And then comes someone who wants to get "weapon, armor or something valid" out of these quests. If they had that kind of reward, then they would be grinding.

I agree with the first point, I dont see why people keep saying that Tyrian quests were not "fed ex" and that they were more interesting. They were mostly just "travel to next town" type quests, or "do this and come back". Sure, many of the Canthan quests were just meaningless running back and forth (Passing the Buck

) but hey, you dont have to do them.

As for the second point, GW already has a suitable system in place. PvE-only items, powerups, skills. Eg. Infusion, Celestial Skills, The spear/urn things etc.

I think it would be great if future stories contained an element of something like: "If you go deep into this dungeon and do optional mission XXX, you will get a piece of the Holy Moly Gem of Bazooka, which, when used in the final set of missions, will grant you the special skill YYY, which makes you invisible to the boss's most powerful hench-creatures, so you can sneak past his guardians."

"Alternatively, if you take your Gem piece to the master forger up in the deadly mountains of doom, he can forge the gem into a weapon of your choice, which gives it the power to seal off a particular ability of the final boss and his hench-creatures, making them weak and vulnerable."

"There are also rumours that if you go into the forbidden jungles of mist, and you feed the gem piece to a rare glock lizard, it will follow you around like a minipet, and show you hidden paths and secret treasures in the final set of missions."

So there you go. Important, fancy, story-based items, that can be relatively unique to your character, make a big contribution to the story, and provide a bit of replayability as they affect the details of what happens in particular missions in the game. After you finish the storyline the items make nice souveniers :P

myword · Jul 12, 2006, 11:46 AM // 11:46

i'm sure the OP made some good points but i couldn't bring myself to read it, the way it was typed

Carth` · Jul 12, 2006, 11:49 AM // 11:49

I know a lot of people hated them, and that's why they were removed, but I would like to see the return of skill quests.

ChaoticCoyote · Jul 12, 2006, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erasculio

The quests in Factions, unlike most questions in Prophecies, add to the storyline by telling the player more about the world he's in - almost all the quests in Prophecies after Ascalon were just "go to place X for the next mission", while this time we have not only different quests, but also things that show how the world of Cantha works.

You must have played different campaigns than I did.

Note: I do *all* the quests, not just the ones required to get from mission to mission, so that may account for our different experiences.

I found the Factions quests bland and repetitive; it was mostly "fine this person, then this person" with incessant runs through the same areas.

In Prophecies, the quests showed me a lot about the world I was in. Many quests filled in the background of the world -- completing them was not essential to the "core" plotline, but doing those quests made the world seem deeper.

Your mileage may vary.

dreamhunk · Jul 12, 2006, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thallandor

I recently went back to play BG2 and found myself engrossed on it for hours on ends, if only there was BG2 online or something and discovered some fundemental problems with GW PvE experience:

What you do have little or no influence on your character and beyond on how your character looks, theres no Character Development at all, both in terms with the questing/mission system and also in the way the hencies pretending to interact.

Sadly PvE will always be the red headed stepchild under the guise of marketing for the PvP game which is Guildwars.

If C3's PvE content is going to strip even more PvE content than the half-assed job which is factions, then we can see where is game is headed for in the future.

If anet keeps up with that they could be in alot of heat legaly!!

for you hardcore pvp player this game about rpg

http://www.vgmfusion.com/index.php?id=63

anthing else is open grounds for legal action!

bog boy · Jul 12, 2006, 03:27 PM // 15:27

the main point of that thread is to just have a rant isnt it?

dreamhunk · Jul 12, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

This is another reason why pvp players and rpg cannot get along!

people wonder why games like wow are top of the food chain!

eudas · Jul 12, 2006, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

This is another reason why pvp players and rpg cannot get along!

people wonder why games like wow are top of the food chain!

No, people wonder why you're still talking.

eudas

0mar · Jul 12, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote

You must have played different campaigns than I did.

Note: I do *all* the quests, not just the ones required to get from mission to mission, so that may account for our different experiences.

I found the Factions quests bland and repetitive; it was mostly "fine this person, then this person" with incessant runs through the same areas.

In Prophecies, the quests showed me a lot about the world I was in. Many quests filled in the background of the world -- completing them was not essential to the "core" plotline, but doing those quests made the world seem deeper.

Your mileage may vary.

asdfakjl, yea man. Factions quests were the worst. They were far more FedEx'ey than Prophecies. The worst part was getting your reward when the guy you had to talk was between 10 mobs of the same thing. It was nothing but grind getting to your reward, which took nothing but grind to do in the first place. Go talk to the first guy (who's behind 10 mobs of guys), deliver this to second guy (also behind 10 mobs), find out 2nd guy doesn't want it and give it to some 3rd guy (also behind 10 mobs) and finally go back to the first guy (behind 10 mobs) to collect your 250 gold. Rinse and repeat 50 times for every quest in Factions.

The best part of Prophecies was that most quests were in outposts/cities. Once you finished killing the quest objective, all you had to do was teleport back to town. In Factions, a lot of quests are in instanced areas which absolutely sucks because you have to go through every single goddamn Am Fa three times in the world just to get to some random officer to collect your reward.

If you are looking for something to blame for the state of PvE in GW, look at Anet and nothing else. PvP isn't to blame for the sorry state of PvE GW is in. There's hardly any new content for PvP in Factions first off and Anet has repeatedly shown that PvE takes precedence over even the most minor improvements PvP could use. There have been dozens of small, minor suggestions to improve the PvP experience, but they've all been ignored so far

Jul 12, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote

You must have played different campaigns than I did.

Note: I do *all* the quests, not just the ones required to get from mission to mission, so that may account for our different experiences.

I found the Factions quests bland and repetitive; it was mostly "fine this person, then this person" with incessant runs through the same areas.

In Prophecies, the quests showed me a lot about the world I was in. Many quests filled in the background of the world -- completing them was not essential to the "core" plotline, but doing those quests made the world seem deeper.

Your mileage may vary.

I agree. I also do all of the quests. In Prophecies, I had fun taking one quest at a time. Doing that one quest then coming back for the reward knowing a new and different quest (usually sent to different area) was waiting.

In Factions, I took as many quests as I could form that town or outpost, knowing most of the quests would overlap, and I would be in the same area. It got old clearing out the same monsters, just to come back in another quest only this time the contact / finish point was mere feet away. At one point I had 20 quests at once. Needless to say the story was impossible to follow.

felinette · Jul 12, 2006, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Prophecies quests were also fedex or go here, kill this, in fact, most quests in computer RPGs are. So it's a matter of how interesting you make the journey to the fedex point or to kill whatever. It's not interesting when the journey consists of what Omar said. That's just a grind.

J3mo · Jul 13, 2006, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Yea lol the whole problem with guild wars is the f*cking lvl20 cap, it sucks.
They can easily adjust it just for PvE but they're too lazy.

I mean damn what u need skill points for,, getting exp after lvl20 is useless thus making everything boring in game, havent played gw myself for 2 weeks now and i still dont feel like i should.

nuff said