Curse

viper008 · Jul 07, 2006, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Internet + anonminity behind keyboard = MANY arseholes online

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jul 07, 2006, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rent

So you get to define what I wanted to say?

And people call me a jerk.

Geezus. Where did I say that? I sure won't call you a jerk, but I can call you dense.

Draco Hunt · Jul 07, 2006, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Ok here we go....
The get over it thing realy doesn't work on this topic. It is a fact that the ingame comunity is getting worse. This mostly because some people think of themselves as more then the other "common"folk.
Also allot of experienced players think of themselves as gods among minors.
Calling people with low expeience on the game noob doesn't help you doing that quest or mission. Rather help the guy so in the future he knows what to do and can be an asset to the game and this comunity.
We have all started as strangers to the game. We have had our help here and there. If you don't have the time to explain something to a new guy just give him a site so he can read the info on himself. But making them scared of askin questions is in my humble opinion a no no. If it was not for the helpfull allot of the experienced players wouldn't be this experienced.

So me and i bet allot of other people call out to this community to stand out and help the less experienced nd the less well informated.

Because(and this is a real example) i got some guy ingame who just finnished prophecies campaign for the first time. He has the game for about 7 months and does not have factions yet. This all came to be because he was scared of asking questions of fear to be called a noob. He has turned to me about 5 weeks ago and made a fast forward in those weeks only by giving him some little sites and some minor advise. Now this realy bugs me because this guy missed loads off the fun for months because he was scared.

Help realy doesnt have to mean spending hours with the guy sometimes it just takes 1 little advice and they figure the rest out by themselves.
But when they do you have more use of them when you are in need of something. Also there thankfullness is a great reward that sometimes results in something unsuspected.

Other example.

I had played this game for about 3 months and met a guy also from the netherlands(he pretended to be a girl for the first 5 months and had even got his best friend(also playing this game) to play allong with his act, but thats another story

) he was new to the game and made a monk as his first char. At that time i still did not know allot about monks but knew enough to help him on his way. We became friends and did loads of things together.
These days he is an experienced PvP player and the best monk i have ever met. Yes he rose above me since i am, although i realy want to do more, a PvP noob in loads of ways. Now he helps me when i need advise on PvP.

This is what i ment by the unexpected.

So for the sake of fun lets help each other.

Blackest Rose · Jul 07, 2006, 12:50 AM // 00:50

I will say that I was mildy shocked by the Canthan Festival and the reception it got by some people.

I was there for the first time the emperor came and I really did expect people to be actually happy - a coming together of "cool event thanks Anet" general player friendlyness.

I expected some "cool -he's here - yay!"
Instead what I saw was most disappointing....

"STFU and gimme my mask f******" "R*** him" and many many more explitives and derogitory(sp?) terms.

I'm not prudish and use profanity myself the whole time

but there's a time and place for everything.
It really cheapened the experience for me and made me think how many immature people are in the game.

That was the first time I really noticed it and hope that it does get better but I doubt it....
Why would people want to shout out and show everyone how immature they are....

It's the equivalent of standing up and shouting "everyone look at me - I'm an idiot" - I really hope I don't get into a PUG with these people.

Goonter · Jul 07, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Current solutions I use: Stay out of it. Stay positive if you get in it, but never tolerate or entertain a prick. Be contagious.

That helps me a little, but I feel bad for the community as a whole, in that there is little justice for the wronged. There just isn’t a good system set up for it.

To set up such a system one walks a fine balance of freedom and control.
Excluding the alliance system this is a self serving game, in that, I benefit nothing in benefiting you.
The first group of solutions should come from the perspective of getting systems that make players benefit from helping each other.
But that will not be able to change as fast or as aggressively as my following suggestions mostly, I feel, for the competitive nature of the game.

I introduce :

The Man - Undercover GMs that ticket people.
They can act like noobs in Ascalon City, do missions in Aspenwood or just hang out for conversation in RA. whatever

-If you're being very helpful you get an accommodation ticket which can be turned in for ale or something, (maybe if you save them up you can get a mini-pet or something)

-If you're scamming, being offensive or abusively prickish then you get a reputation ticket. Over time they go away, but like insurance rates, the price you pay at NPCs goes up. (maybe an additional x% from all purchases at NPCs for each ticket)

Ideas for what these tickets do are negotiable to whatever you can come up with, but I'd suggest it not be a flag for others to see. There could be the reverse motive of “achieving a flag”.

The morality of these GMs would have to be under high scrutiny by the developer team. Every ticket given should be given with case examples and the people that get them should be aware as to why they get them to motivate certain behaviors.

I bet you, that in itself would cool down something’s for a while. If these GMs get a reputation of being on the job and professional, it will have a lasting effect.

Next:

Power to The People
First and foremost, players need to be able to challenge the GMs. Like how we can go to court over a traffic ticket instead of paying it if we feel the need to.

1. Each reputation ticket should be given with information on how to contacting the support for any "issues".
Each GM will have to keep track of who they ticket and the case. If a pattern is discovered in the people or questionable cases the GM is make judgments over then the developers can handle their business with them.

2. Players should have the ability to site someone for behavior like a /report player. Doesn’t mean that person is going to get ticketed or a GM is going to show up. It's just a method for the GMs to detect patterns.
Also, it would be good for players to get the message, as an example:
You have been report 7 times in one minute.
If only to give them the clue to control their conduct.

3. A unanimous /kick vote.
For the unimaginative - The kicked player automatically drops mission items and receives all drops assigned to him. This player is replaced by a henchman though some henchman selection method.

With that careful system of law and justice in place, people will begin to act like people that are being judged. Though that can be considered highly manipulative, realistically it’s the element that motivates a lot of society to stay within expectable conduct.

ps. banning or temp bans are not a good long term solution and hardly an expectable short term solution.
If that’s as far as we can think, consider it a lost cause.

Drakyn · Jul 07, 2006, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Disrespect is expected anywhere. We will always have to deal with it, whether we have monitors on the sidelines or not. We will always have scammers. We will always have differing points of view. We will always have jerks giving the new players a hard time because it makes him feel like John Holmes or makes her feel like she has control because she doesn't in the household. At this point, I can agree with some people by saying "Deal with it. Harden yourself to it, expect it and learn to work around it." But.....there is something that MANY of us can do and has already been mentioned here in this thread. And that is, go out to where the beginners hang out and LOOK for trouble then simply give them a hand. We were all nOObs once and I know I appreciated it when someone answered my seriously idiotic questions instead of laughing at me or trying to take advantage of me. We don't know nor do we have any control over ANET and what they will do about this problem. But, we do have control over what WE will do about it. So, I say to all of you out there who actually are humane and give a damn about OUR GW community - you beat the game 6 times already? Need something to do?? Want to feel good about yourself and help lead your future gamers and friends on the right track??? Then go out and find those new members and lead them in the right direction. Stick up for them in the local chat and put the jerks and scammers DOWN. I do it, and I love grinding those jerks and spammers faces in their own lies. Help out your fellow gamers, that is what we can do to curb this.

viper008 · Jul 07, 2006, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackest Rose

I will say that I was mildy shocked by the Canthan Festival and the reception it got by some people.

I was there for the first time the emperor came and I really did expect people to be actually happy - a coming together of "cool event thanks Anet" general player friendlyness.

I expected some "cool -he's here - yay!"
Instead what I saw was most disappointing....

"STFU and gimme my mask f******" "R*** him" and many many more explitives and derogitory(sp?) terms.

I'm not prudish and use profanity myself the whole time

but there's a time and place for everything.
It really cheapened the experience for me and made me think how many immature people are in the game.

That was the first time I really noticed it and hope that it does get better but I doubt it....
Why would people want to shout out and show everyone how immature they are....

It's the equivalent of standing up and shouting "everyone look at me - I'm an idiot" - I really hope I don't get into a PUG with these people.

So true 100%

This type of thing goes on at EVERY event and it's really sad. Like yesterday some people where still waitng for the Emperor to come while few other people includung myself. Where trying to tell people the event was over with and they need to wait for the Supply Master for your mask.

Few of them statrted to mouth off and act like they are some bad arse when they are just showed how much of jerk they are. When all they have to do is read www.guildwars.com for all the info they needed.

Kook~NBK~ · Jul 07, 2006, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Here's a big reason why the behavior of people in GW has gone down hill recently: School's Out!

Being a younger player is no excuse, but I've noticed that during the school year, during the 3 - 4 hours after school gets out, the crap that the OP is speaking of spikes. Then, when it's getting around 9 - 10ish, things improve as the younger ones go to bed. (Saturday afternoons are pretty bad, too.)

I'm not lumping all school-aged kids into the "obnoxious turd" catergory, I've met several teens who don't act that way. I've also met several older players that do!

The best way to deal with it is to not be a jerk yourself. Here's a few ways:

1. Remove the word "noob" from your vocabulary (or any variants / synonyms)
2. When you see someone asking a question, politely PM them the answer.
3. When capping skills, remember that the party you're with helped you get it, you should help them finsih what they've set out to do.
4. Never leave in the middle of a PvP battle. You may be down by 50-100 points in an AB, but the tide may turn. You leave, you miss out on the fun & faction that comes with the victory! (I've seen it a few times

)
5. If you catch someone trying to scam you, take the SS, & smile as you report them.
6. If someone starts flaming you, use your ignore list - you may have to bump someone else, but that person's probalby long forgotten about you anyway.
7. Leave the profanity words out of your chat messages.

Zehnchu · Jul 07, 2006, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonter

Current solutions I use: Stay out of it. Stay positive if you get in it, but never tolerate or entertain a prick. Be contagious.

That helps me a little, but I feel bad for the community as a whole, in that there is little justice for the wronged. There just isn’t a good system set up for it.

To set up such a system one walks a fine balance of freedom and control.
Excluding the alliance system this is a self serving game, in that, I benefit nothing in benefiting you.
The first group of solutions should come from the perspective of getting systems that make players benefit from helping each other.
But that will not be able to change as fast or as aggressively as my following suggestions mostly, I feel, for the competitive nature of the game.

I introduce :

The Man - Undercover GMs that ticket people.
They can act like noobs in Ascalon City, do missions in Aspenwood or just hang out for conversation in RA. whatever

-If you're being very helpful you get an accommodation ticket which can be turned in for ale or something, (maybe if you save them up you can get a mini-pet or something)

-If you're scamming, being offensive or abusively prickish then you get a reputation ticket. Over time they go away, but like insurance rates, the price you pay at NPCs goes up. (maybe an additional x% from all purchases at NPCs for each ticket)

Ideas for what these tickets do are negotiable to whatever you can come up with, but I'd suggest it not be a flag for others to see. There could be the reverse motive of “achieving a flag”.

The morality of these GMs would have to be under high scrutiny by the developer team. Every ticket given should be given with case examples and the people that get them should be aware as to why they get them to motivate certain behaviors.

I bet you, that in itself would cool down something’s for a while. If these GMs get a reputation of being on the job and professional, it will have a lasting effect.

Next:

Power to The People
First and foremost, players need to be able to challenge the GMs. Like how we can go to court over a traffic ticket instead of paying it if we feel the need to.

1. Each reputation ticket should be given with information on how to contacting the support for any "issues".
Each GM will have to keep track of who they ticket and the case. If a pattern is discovered in the people or questionable cases the GM is make judgments over then the developers can handle their business with them.

2. Players should have the ability to site someone for behavior like a /report player. Doesn’t mean that person is going to get ticketed or a GM is going to show up. It's just a method for the GMs to detect patterns.
Also, it would be good for players to get the message, as an example:
You have been report 7 times in one minute.
If only to give them the clue to control their conduct.

3. A unanimous /kick vote.
For the unimaginative - The kicked player automatically drops mission items and receives all drops assigned to him. This player is replaced by a henchman though some henchman selection method.

With that careful system of law and justice in place, people will begin to act like people that are being judged. Though that can be considered highly manipulative, realistically it’s the element that motivates a lot of society to stay within expectable conduct.

ps. banning or temp bans are not a good long term solution and hardly an expectable short term solution.
If that’s as far as we can think, consider it a lost cause.

what do you get for running in the hall way with scissors?

echo envitas · Jul 07, 2006, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erasculio

Oh, you do.

There's a nice tab in the GW website called Support. In there, there's a place where you can write to the GW team, and one of the options to talk about is, "Report a Violation".

Do you use it?

"No, it's not in game" - if you are going to answer that, stop being lazy. You have the means to "don't accept" the rudeness you see in game, if you don't use it, well, you are being either lazy or hipocrite when you say you won't accept it. It takes as long to report something there as it takes to make a post here...So instead of complaining about how WoW is better (

), either do something to stop it, or quit whining.

(Oh, and just take a look at the WoW Forum, and you'll see how the "social atmosphere" there is healthy.)

Erasculio

Erasculio! I'm alittle disappointed in hearing a response like that from you.
How do you know she hasn't reported anyone?
I have reported a few people thru the website, and I'm still complaining that we need an in-game way to do it. Its not easy enough for people to do as it is now. So it doesn't get used.
And telling people to iniate change themselves doesn't work.
I am doing whatever I can about this, but there's only so much anyone can do. This problem is too big, ANET needs to address this with some kind of a change to the game mechanic.
And yeah, the WOW forums are horrible, much worse than any Guild Wars forum. But its a different story in-game. In-game people are much friendlier and less screwed up than many GW players.

Zehnchu · Jul 07, 2006, 01:48 AM // 01:48

They gave a reason they won’t and will not do it, it would abused.

Goonter · Jul 07, 2006, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

what do you get for running in the hall way with scissors?

same
modify behavior with what works, while allowing you to sleep well with your decisions.
or ...just let people run in hall ways with scissors.

Demesis · Jul 07, 2006, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by inscribed

Whats with all these socialist attitudes? Nothing in the EULA that says I can't act like a jerk if I want to. Sure, report someone for cursing excessively or impersonating a GW representative, but people have every right to act like a jerk if they want to. Just like you have every right to block the person or not group with the person or just simply ignore the person.

Seriously, expecting everyone to act how you think they should is just as childish as some of you are claiming these jerks are. As an adult, learn to deal with people who act in a way that you don't care for.

Please, please feel free to act like a jerk online. I also expect thieves to stop stealing and rapists to stop raping, but I guess it's just a childish thing to expect them to stop behaving like that.

Can people please stop asking us to 'deal with it'? and telling us "nothing can be done about it"

Fine, let's say what you guys out there say is true, you ALL have the right to be jerks. Wait a minute, then how come nobody has the right to flame on this forum? It's because it's a rule here to help maintain some sense of decency among the posters. Nobody has the right to flame on this forum and similarly, nobody has the right to scam or abuse someone in game. Our admins that enforce this rule don't even get paid. Why? It's an unspoken rule of human decency and it's what makes us civilized.

I'd like to hear people like you say this to a terminally ill patient: "But cancer's a fact of life, deal with it"

"People get AIDs all the time, deal with it"

I'm sure if all of us learn to deal with AIDs and cancer. There's no reason why those scientists should go and find a cure, because there's nothing they can do about it.

But the sarcasm aside, WHY do these scientists work day and night at seemingly dead-end jobs? It's the fact that they CARE for people. They don't want to see other people suffer, and they certainly don't want to see people die.

It's people with the "what does this have to do with me", "deal with it" and "nothing can be done about it" attitude that screws things up. They just sit on their butts all day telling everyone to give up and accept the bad things when in reality something can be done about it. They are the type of people who don't vote because they think their votes are insignificant, they are the type of people who don't give money to charities because they think their small givings aern't going to help anyone, they are the type of people who will instantly give up on someone who is dying. Paramedics will keep performing CPR on someone who is clinically dead for 10 minutes and the "deal with it" type people wouldn't even give the person 30 seconds.

So, unless you are this type of person, DON'T SAY "deal with it". It's a lazy excuse to 'solve' the problem.

echo envitas · Jul 07, 2006, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

They gave a reason they won’t and will not do it, it would abused.

You mean an in-game reporting method? Like one that every other major MMO has? Like the system we have isn't abused a million time worse right now? I see the worst abuse I've ever seen in this game, and it makes me really sad. It cheapens the whole game.

I'm not saying this should be done, but something needs to happen.

One other idea that I had was to offer a separate server, that is watched over by GMs that you had to pay a monthly fee for, like $9.95. I would so totally move all my 3 accounts onto that and happily pay the fee. And I know many others would too.

inscribed · Jul 07, 2006, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demesis

Please, please feel free to act like a jerk online. I also expect thieves to stop stealing and rapists to stop raping, but I guess it's just a childish thing to expect them to stop behaving like that.

You have got to be kidding me. Are you honestly comparing someone calling a player a 'noob' or giving them false information to a rapist or a murderer? How old are you again? Don't turn this into something its not. Sure, you have every right to throw a little tantrum on an internet forum and blow your problem way out of proportion, but no one with any sense is buying it.

Demesis · Jul 07, 2006, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by inscribed

You have got to be kidding me. Are you honestly comparing someone calling a player a 'noob' or giving them false information to a rapist or a murderer? How old are you again? Don't turn this into something its not. Sure, you have every right to throw a little tantrum on an internet forum and blow your problem way out of proportion, but no one with any sense is buying it.

It's a sarcastic analogy and it's clearly putting a point through. Asking for my age and pretending that you are more mature than me doesn't put any more credit into your post either.

If you just sit back and let things run their course then fine. Just don't expect your next door neighbour to be polite or courteous. Don't expect doctors to treat your headaches. Don't expect welfare to take care of you if you're unlucky enough not to get a job.

If you really choose to let thing be, then why aern't you letting this thread be? You are putting more effort into telling everyone to give up than actually using your energy to come up with a more productive solution.

paddes · Jul 07, 2006, 02:16 AM // 02:16

i gotta agree,
the community is degrading. why? well thats an answer, that is not so easy to explain, but i got an idea:

karma points

its kinda like a reputation system, which allows player to "earn" points by helping put other players. like doing a mission with low lvl. poeple, just to help them out.

also, every player would be able to give ONE single karma point per day to ANOTHER player, who has been nice to him.

you could introduce multiple titles in the character screen, depending on how many points you collected this way.

---

well maybe my "idea" isnt perfect, but i think ANET needs to make clear that "helping out, pays out" and the karma system would motivate more player, to be nice.

just my two cents

inscribed · Jul 07, 2006, 02:17 AM // 02:17

No, its wasn't a sarcastic analogy, it was just dumb. Real world punishments exist for rape and murder, just like in game punishments exist for serious offenses like racist comments/ GW admin impersonation/ botting/ etc.

If you want a more appropriate analogy, lets compare people acting like a jerk in game to someone calling you a 'doo doo head' in real life, and then expecting someone to punish him. Sorry, not going to happen.

Demesis · Jul 07, 2006, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by inscribed

No, its wasn't a sarcastic analogy, it was just dumb. Real world punishments exist for rape and murder, just like in game punishments exist for serious offenses like racist comments/ GW admin impersonation/ botting/ etc.

If you want a more appropriate analogy, lets compare people acting like a jerk in game to someone calling you a 'doo doo head' in real life, and then expecting someone to punish him. Sorry, not going to happen.

How about comparing someone calling you a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO in game and someone calling you a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO in real life.

It doesn't get any simpler than that.

Real world punishments also exist for indecent exposure, invasion of privacy and harrassment. They are also a form of verbal abuse. Surely if they aern't serious then how come they are punishable offences? Surely if a child is screwed up socially then why are they being sent to juvenile hall by court order?

inscribed · Jul 07, 2006, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Wow, no wonder you aren't getting it, you can't read.

There already exists a way to take care of people who use racially offensive language. Its called 'reporting' someone. Its not hard.

So, given the method of dealing with this that already exists, what exactly are you arguing about?