Curse

Xenrath · Jul 15, 2006, 01:32 PM // 13:32

edit: post withdrawn, don't need the personal comments.

Flabber Babble · Jul 15, 2006, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Agreed,

Buff, not nerf, maybe, but even a combination would be nice, for example (and I know it's been said), on the July 13th update. If ANet we're to implement some more types of elemental defense for the warriors to offset the overall reduction on aborption. Maybe we'll see a Rune of Warding pop up in the Rune Traders soon enough (I hope). That might help ease over some of the flames.

Avarre · Jul 15, 2006, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Making a minor modification of -7 vs all to -5 phy, -0 ele does not constitute a 'healthy swing of the nerf bat'. There was no reason for warriors to have this kind of defence when they already have significant armor-defence, which still remains higher than any other character class.

Quote:

Current example: Why take away from warriors, when you could have added to elementalists somehow, if that was the main reason for the armour change?

Armor change was not targetted at warriors, it was a blanket fix of all global boost armor pieces, also worn by mesmers. Warriors just whine louder. Elementalists cannot be too much more buffed as well because of causing more imbalance. Making warriors take 7 more damage is not imbalance when they already have a 3/4 damage from squishielevel due to armor, not counting shields or non-gladiator sets, or armor boosts.

majoho · Jul 15, 2006, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Jesh, NO NO NO!!!

So you wanna make it so that the sensible nerf that was made could be undone by just making it possible to buy it from somewhere else.

Did you even think before posting this?

If Anet was of the opinion that Warriors had an unfair advantage, THEY needed the nerf - buffing Elementalist would be, yeah a BUFF of elementalists and would screw the game balance it would not fix anything.

Cyan The Archer · Jul 15, 2006, 01:58 PM // 13:58

So what Anet should have done was just giving everything +7 dmg against Warriors, then everyone would have been happy?

elavro · Jul 15, 2006, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenrath

Well looking at various updates it seems evident the nerf bat is getting a healthy swing and, inevitably, it's hitting some people the wrong way.

I'm not an expert PvP'er or claim to know everything about skills and items, but I'd like to suggest the "Skills Guy" and "Items Guy" at Anet try to buff things more i.e. increase/add in order to balance than nerf i.e. take away/reduce. Those can affect PvE just as bad if not worse in some ways than PvP (and vice versa of course)

Except in rare cases when something is being abused and is blatantly over powered it's surely better to increase and add things to bring them up to par than to take away more and more? I'd hazard a guess less people would be upset by that approach as it would be seen as additions, not taking things away.

Current example: Why take away from warriors, when you could have added to elementalists somehow, if that was the main reason for the armour change?

I won't pretend to know how, for one thing am not getting paid to do it, but it might be a better approach.

the problem is, if they buff ele's alot, there spike could dominate ALOT, its hard to buff ele's in a minor way so that there dmg is improved, but not too much improved.
This is something they did with the warrior armor, however I think its a bug, and never was supposed to be global, and warriors aren't getting ALOT of dmg extra, it hurts yes, but I think its balanced

KamikazeChicken · Jul 15, 2006, 02:09 PM // 14:09

I suggest the OP listen to a recording of the Izzy WoC. I'm sure wheel or someone has it posted somewhere.

This update also did nearly jack to PvP. Whine more PvE. >.>

zakaria · Jul 15, 2006, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Next nerf will be any ally stand under friendly meteor shower or fire storm should get dmg also to make the game more realistic.

/end sarcasm

Xenrath · Jul 15, 2006, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Ok forget it, I just thought it might be a better idea to add things to other areas to make them better than to take away - it was just a general observation. Unfortunately, yet again someone chooses to make an ad hominem attack so I'ld like my original post withdrawn, thanks.

Silent Kitty · Jul 15, 2006, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Maybe this should have been posted in the Sardelac Sanitarium, as this was more a suggestion than a discussion.

majoho · Jul 15, 2006, 02:35 PM // 14:35

I don't see any 'attacks' here.

wilebill · Jul 15, 2006, 02:39 PM // 14:39

I don't know what OP said. Just for ANet's ears, I will say this:

A general principal of keeping players happy is that if you take something away from a player class, you should give something new to that class. Doesn't matter what. A new weapon, a small buff to an old weapon, new item, something that doesn't affect game balance, but which will please the players.

For instance, a warrior-only longbow, no attrib with a couple points higher max than the usual no attrib longbow. Something like that.

Flabber Babble · Jul 15, 2006, 02:40 PM // 14:40

heh, I think Majoho was more opposed to MY post

oh well, I'm not too opposed to the update, I do believe the whole thing has gotten blown out of proportion. I agree with Elavro, the extra damage hurts, but it's not earth-shattering.

Quote:

Did you even think before posting this?

sounds a little aggressive to me

pyrohex · Jul 15, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilebill

For instance, a warrior-only longbow, no attrib with a couple points higher max than the usual no attrib longbow. Something like that.

Hahaha. That ranks among dumbest ideas I have ever heard. Maybe we should give ele's a Hammer of Death and assassins a Wand of Fearsomeness, too. You know, all 6-10 damage. Boy, that would be worth their time to make.

leetfeet · Jul 15, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

IMO to buff an ele u should not nerf a warrior, to buff an ele u should, umm BUFF THE ELE, make the ele skills do +7 damage and leave all the absorbtion and sheilds alone, warriors wouldnt be complaining that their 100k armor was nerfed, come on, its logical to make ele stronger, and warriors wouldnt care, because they didnt loose ne money over it.

KamikazeChicken · Jul 15, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyrohex

Hahaha. That ranks among dumbest ideas I have ever heard.

It's really not that uncommon to have a warrior use a vamp bow to shoot long range to build adrenaline. More people used wands (Nolani) in gvg, but it's all for the same purpose.

Avarre · Jul 15, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by leetfeet

IMO to buff an ele u should not nerf a warrior, to buff an ele u should, umm BUFF THE ELE, make the ele skills do +7 damage and leave all the absorbtion and sheilds alone, warriors wouldnt be complaining that their 100k armor was nerfed, come on, its logical to make ele stronger, and warriors wouldnt care, because they didnt loose ne money over it.

It wasn't to buff the ele globally, it was to buff the ele with regards to warriors.

Flabber Babble · Jul 15, 2006, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Forgive my ingorance, but are Chaos, Light, and Dark damage considered elemental as well? If so, then every class besides the Ele would benefit from the update.

Master Fuhon · Jul 15, 2006, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenrath

it might be a better idea to add things to other areas to make them better than to take away

Agreed. I wasn't sure exactly why warriors got something like an absorption rune in the first place when no other class did. It may have had something to do with the absurdity of using multiple weapon masteries. Rather than strip down the advantages it gave them, I was hoping that different armor/rune advantages could be balanced between the separate classes.

All I can remember is having my monk fighting in Ascalon Arena against Droknar's equipped armor and doing 0 damage with my wand against a lower level warrior. Warriors have always taken too many 0's with minimal skill usage in PvE. At a certain point, the absorption provides better protection than the Defy Pain (elite) only because the damage is being cut off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenrath

edit: post withdrawn, don't need the personal comments.

Someone already quoted you, and I don't see anything wrong with being a PvE player. In PvP, this update really would have the most effect on fire elementalists fighting a warrior heavy team. Or casting a lightning orb on a frenzied warrior.

There was a comment about PvE whining. I'll just leave it at this: Factions wasn't as good as Prophecies because A-Net did too much listening to the morons who don't know what made it a good game. Theres no need to edit out a valid opinion.

SFEley · Jul 15, 2006, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenrath

Ok forget it, I just thought it might be a better idea to add things to other areas to make them better than to take away - it was just a general observation.

The trouble with adding things is that it causes more harm to all classes, as well as to warriors who don't happen to have those particular shields and armor suits. (Warriors just starting out, or who made other equipment choices.)

The perceived problem wasn't "Elementalists don't do enough damage." The perceived problem was "Warriors aren't taking enough damage." So that's what they fixed.

Quote:

Unfortunately, yet again someone chooses to make an ad hominem attack so I'ld like my original post withdrawn, thanks.

I didn't see any ad hominem attacks. No one insulted you as a person.