Curse

db0y · Jun 22, 2006, 12:30 AM // 00:30

reached 2 milion because of botters who keep buying the game

castanaveras · Jun 22, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

I'm glad GW is doing well...it's the only online PC game that I play. No mothly fee ftw!

Whiplashr · Jun 22, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by db0y

reached 2 milion because of botters who keep buying the game

extreme cynicism for the win!

DaCota · Jun 22, 2006, 01:11 AM // 01:11

we need more of the 1st chapter and less of the 2nd IMO. Thats 80% - 20%.

Curlyfry · Jun 22, 2006, 01:16 AM // 01:16

This was the first real MMO that I ever played, and have LOVED it since beta! Gotta give Anet kudos on making this a free game, cause I think that for a game of this calibur, people would pay...

Winx.ZN · Jun 22, 2006, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by awesome sauce

I find it funny how they write all their stories in third party format... as if it came out of a real newspaper. It sounds like the most baiest journalism i've ever read.

Its called a "press release"
Written by the company for the press.
Press includes audio (radio), video(tv), written (newspapers), and electronic formats (websites, such as guru) among others. Might shock you to know many articles which you read about products and milestones of those products were actually written by the companies themselves. Stops people from being sued or something. Thought I would share.

-----
Onto the 2 million
-----
Well done!
Question : Population Cantha? (500k?) Population Tyria (1.2Million?) Just curious...

Sanji · Jun 22, 2006, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curlyfry

This was the first real MMO that I ever played, and have LOVED it since beta! Gotta give Anet kudos on making this a free game, cause I think that for a game of this calibur, people would pay...

Guild Wars is not a MMO by Anet's own admission and very unlikely to do well in a pay to play package. Guild Wars doesn't have the persistant world and treadmill that gives you things to do keep you constantly playing (and paying).

Which I'm glad of, the last thing we need is another endless treadmill games where the only people who win are the people who are getting all your subscription fees. The market is glutted with MMOs, so instead of trying to put Guild Wars against them, I think it's players should be more thankful for what it is -and- what it isn't and not pay World of Warcraft any mind.

Mimi Miyagi · Jun 22, 2006, 07:47 AM // 07:47

For your question about population levels between the two continents (games).

There is a fundamental problem with ANet's game design with "standalone" chapters. Bear with me, this might be a bit confusing.

In order for the game to self sustain, it not only must sell, but it must give the impression that the world is alive and active. Not too many people will play on empty servers, or more directly, zones/towns that are ghost towns.

In a typical MMORPG, everyone starts out at level one in a newbie area, and progresses through the game in a linear, familiar path. We saw this in chapter 1.

At the start of a game release, everyone is at the beginning, leveling up, and moving forward in the realm. As game sales increase, so does the population.

But typically, the first 10-20 levels of any MMORPG is fairly fast. The developers want you to get out of the sewers fighting rats and out into the countryside hunting orcs and exploring. Newbie areas are well populated at a constant rate, as new sales come around, and the refresh from current players that may start a second character (for whatever reason). The game will usually have parts of the game that will start to slow down advancement, whether by design, or by happenstance. In GW, one of the first milestones is getting to Lion's Arch, and that's one or the reasons why it's a popular area. Players that are treading water tend to stay in that area for a while, until they reach a point where progression starts up again.

Thus, the population levels across the continent at the beginning will be high in lower areas, then start to rise as time goes on from the bottom up. There will be peaks and valleys as population piles up behind a stumbling block (THK for example, or the desert missions) as the gamers progess within the game.

Finally, you'll have the first groups finish the game, and as times goes on, a more stead stream of players will "catch up" and fill up the top of the game's zones. If the game has a definite "end" the population will eventually congregate towards the top, evening out the entire world population levels.

Now, a typical MMORPG would issue an expansion pack. To play the game as a new customer, you'd have to buy both, and start from the beginning. Thus, the game will always have a steady stream of new players filling up the "pipe", with a momentary valley in the former areas that used to be the limit as the top players go off to explore the new areas int he expansion. Eventually, things will smooth out again, until the next expansion pack.

But with GW, it's a much different model.

We saw the normal progression, and the eventual evening out over the past year.

But what happens when you release a second chapter that is independent of the first?

You'll see a mass exodous of the chapter 1 veterans to chapter 2, leaving huge voids of areas, and a severe population decrease across the entire continent. In addition, your vital beginners pipeline (presearing players) in chapter 1 start to dwindle down, and could eventually dry up completely. At some point, the vast majority of chapter 1 players will rise to the top (get to the end), and the population levels from droknar's back will slowly dry up to almost nothing.

In addition, not everyone that bought chapter 1 will buy chapter 2. Not only that, but if you never bought chapter 1, there is a much lesser chance you'd buy chapter 2. If the game presentation and mechanics didn't grab you to begin with, chapter 2 isn't going to change that, espeically since (as in GW) fundamentally, chapter 2 is not much different. Sure, there will be new buyers, and SOME may even go back and buy chapter 1, but the damage has been done.

Now, in chapter 2, we'll see the same scenario as chapter 1, but in Faction's case, there isn't as much content (contrary to what ANet states), and not nearly as many buyers.

To make matters worse, ANet decided to split the player base into two sides. This not only decreased the town population levels dramatically (because half the players are on the other side of the map) but made things much harder on the players as they progress through the game. The towns at the bottom of the map are almost completely deviod of life.

Chapter 3 faces even more problems, as you'll find yet another drop in purchases, draining of chapter 2's population as everyone runs off to chapter 3, and even more of a feeling that the game world is empty.

So, instead of a very robust game world that constantly funnels players through the same "pipeline", GW is simply more like dividing up a pie into smaller and smaller bites.

Shrug, it will be very interesting to see if they're able to address this fundamental flaw with subsequent chapters.

The "smarter" way of doing this business model would be to simply reduce the price of chapter 1 to bargin bin prices, or as a re-release compilation pack or bundle with chapter 2's release. This should've been done when chapter 2 was released in the stores. You make the rabid players pay full price (because they will buy each chapter as it's released) but give subsequent new owners of each successive release the content previous to it. Perhaps as part of the package, previous owners get added bonuses (emotes, divine auras, etc) when buying chapter 2 and adding that key to chapter 1.

Shrug, that's why I have such a bleak outlook for GW's future, and why I think chapter 3 will be the watershed release, it will sink or swim the franchise.

AlbinoChocobo · Jun 22, 2006, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiplashr

I feel sorry for the people who don't "get it". You see it alot on other forums, or usenet, where people complain about the level cap, only carrying 8 skills at a time, etc.. They just don't GET IT.

Yep, talked it over with a couple (husband+wife) of WoW-playing friends. They need their daily xp farming in the game, they just can't understand that GW is about playing your cards right.

Not that the GW basis is unknown is more classic games : poker is still 5 cards per player, and you can't just go "I'm a level 35 ches splayer ! I have 3 rooks and 5 knights ! I am 1337 !!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel Develin

well it does mean bad storage and not enough character slots.

Inventory has gas behavior : with twice the character slots, you'd still be as strapped for space, but with twice the junk. GW is actually therapetic for retensive people I guess (I know it is for me).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scown-dog

Didn't the gaming movie learn from the Doom, um, hmm, thriller?

Super Mario, Double Dragon, Street Fighters, Mortal Kombat, Tomb Raider, and so on and so forth. Not counting the numerous animaton projects. Nope, they don't learn ; I guess they actually manage to turn a profit with those things ..

Jas · Jun 22, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by db0y

reached 2 milion because of botters who keep buying the game

After buying the 3rd Factions account I strongly doubt that all of us triple-account-owners are botters... I just love to have one of each profession, and even then like to try out different builds (Mo/E, Mo/N, Mo/Me, Mo/W, Mo/A, Mo/r, Mo/Rt)... and accomplishing that with all the profs demands for more than one account... and believe me, I do not possess the skill for botting, I just love to play the game, a lot.

Grats, ANet

*** And without a doubt... part 3 will be bought thrice by me

LifeInfusion · Jun 23, 2006, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Why is everyone so negative? They are just stating the sales. They never said that they are unique players...

Sanji · Jun 23, 2006, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Why is everyone so negative? They are just stating the sales. They never said that they are unique players...

Mostly because of posters who use this somewhat disingenuous press release as a launching pad to go "In your face, WoW! We're catching up in the internet popularity contest!"

It's not like video game/console/operating system wars are anything new, but it's still of annoying to see it sprout up when you're someone who is able to enjoy more than one thing at the same time and don't feel the need to make everything a pissing contest.

While I have long since stopped playing World of Warcraft and would not saying I necessarily have fonder memories of it than I do Guild Wars, just different. That said, I'm just as confused why some people always look for an excuse to trash it. Especially since the games don't have all that much in common.

Numa Pompilius · Jun 23, 2006, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

So, instead of a very robust game world that constantly funnels players through the same "pipeline", GW is simply more like dividing up a pie into smaller and smaller bites.

Frankly I think you're stuck in the 'persistent world' line of thinking. The instancing-with-shared world means that ANet can adjust player density within wide limits - first by lowering the number of instances of, say, Lions Arch, then, if need be, by combining the various realms in which Lions Arch exists (EU could meld with US, for instance).

But more importantly, ANet, unlike a company running a persistent world, will not WANT to keep people playing the original areas indefinitely. The ideal scenario is having the entire player base migrating to the new areas every time a new expansion is released, while the older areas become ghost towns requiring very little support & resources. In the real world they of course realize some people will never migrate, and have allocated resources to keep some servers running old areas, but the way to make "constantly new areas" work is by having the playerbase follow.

EDIT: And I don't need an excuse to trash WoW: It's fugly.

Overnite · Jun 23, 2006, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

EDIT: And I don't need an excuse to trash WoW: It's fugly.

But it has around 4 million ppl playing, compared to roughly 1 million of ppl playing GW. You need some real arguments if you want to discuss with those numbers...

Ninna · Jun 23, 2006, 12:41 PM // 12:41

ANET may not be a standard MMO but they are competing with MMOs

why else have this statement in their earlier press release?

Guild Wars Factions #1 Game in North America and Europe
http://www.guildwars.com/press/relea...2006-05-23.php

Quote:

"The popularity of MMOGs is on the rise and quickly becoming one of the strongest performing genres on the PC platform. From 2004 to 2005, usage of MMOGs grew nearly 29 percent, and that combined with the significant increase of sales at retail for these products illustrates the growing importance of this genre," said Anita Frazier, industry analyst, The NPD Group.

Niroth · Jun 23, 2006, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Notice that they said MMOG (Massively Multiplayer Online Game, which Guild Wars certainly is.. all 1 million people on 1 server, instanced or not is massive) rather than MMORPG like you will find for WoW or EQ2.

Mimi Miyagi · Jun 23, 2006, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Frankly I think you're stuck in the 'persistent world' line of thinking. The instancing-with-shared world means that ANet can adjust player density within wide limits - first by lowering the number of instances of, say, Lions Arch, then, if need be, by combining the various realms in which Lions Arch exists (EU could meld with US, for instance).

But more importantly, ANet, unlike a company running a persistent world, will not WANT to keep people playing the original areas indefinitely. The ideal scenario is having the entire player base migrating to the new areas every time a new expansion is released, while the older areas become ghost towns requiring very little support & resources. In the real world they of course realize some people will never migrate, and have allocated resources to keep some servers running old areas, but the way to make "constantly new areas" work is by having the playerbase follow.

EDIT: And I don't need an excuse to trash WoW: It's fugly.

My explanation had NOTHING to do with "instanced" worlds.

And the ideal isn't that "everyone migrates to the new world", in fact that would be suicide for the game.

Ghost towns in the GW universe = BAD. It doesn't matter if it's in the first or last chapter, but it's certainly WORSE that chapter 2 has ghost towns already. It's a player's perception that is important.

WingspanTT · Jun 24, 2006, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

My explanation had NOTHING to do with "instanced" worlds.

And the ideal isn't that "everyone migrates to the new world", in fact that would be suicide for the game.

Ghost towns in the GW universe = BAD. It doesn't matter if it's in the first or last chapter, but it's certainly WORSE that chapter 2 has ghost towns already. It's a player's perception that is important.

I feel that your scenario leaves out something important to Chapter 2: that many quests come back to the same cities as before, i.e. you will be returning to Keineng even after getting to Cavalon to do quests. This keeps old outposts stocked. Except for the "throw-away" outposts in the middle of Echovald or The Jade Sea, all of the missions and outposts are stocked. This is because missions are repeatable with a good reawrd, some are contest high-score missions, and many other cities offer good quests or convenient farming/capping spots.

Yes the population will spread out over time. This is why there are henchmen. But you forget that also down the road, not only will there be existing players buying chapter 4 and moving there, but also those players will eventually move their ch4 only chars to chaps 1-3. Also, new players will buy ch4, then in a month buy chapters 1-3 in the bargain bin for $15 each, and try them out.

Caleb · Jun 24, 2006, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Congrats on reaching the 2 million mark!

Loviatar · Jun 24, 2006, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by WingspanTT

I. Also, new players will buy ch4, then in a month buy chapters 1-3 in the bargain bin for $15 each, and try them out.

one small correction.

you will never see ANY chapter in the bargain bin for the simple reason that each account created has a definite cost to the company.

they have a set price that they will not ship product under rather than incur a loss on each sale