Curse

Falrow · Jul 21, 2006, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Does anyone remember the update when Greater Conflagration and Winter were changed to 3 second casts? They are currently the only ranger spirits with a 3 second cast.

I went and looked in Guildwiki, and the date when they were changed in the article was the 23rd of May, 2006.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki?title=Greater_Conflagration&diff=next&oldid=1 51925
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki?title=W...t&oldid=151956

But no mention in the GuildWiki pages here:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Game_updates/2006_May#Update__.E2.80.93_Tuesday.2C_May_23.2C_20 06

Nor in the Guild Wars game update pages here:
http://www.guildwars.com/support/gam...ve-2006-05.php

When were they changed? On the 23rd like the article history suggests? Before that? Maybe I should/someone should contact the person that did this update to the pages for the skills? See how he noticed it.

Just a couple of days ago Gaile said they never do stealth updates unless they slip through the cracks. Izzy is responsible for game balance changes, which this falls under. He is very rigoris in his update logs, so I really doubt something like this went live and Izzy forgeting to get it added to the logs.

Is this proof of a stealth update?

Discuss.

KamikazeChicken · Jul 21, 2006, 05:33 AM // 05:33

Neither are any different than they were. I almost want to say neither of these skills were ever change, since the release over a year ago. People edit things all the time on Wiki for absolutely no reason. Hell, the Rotscale page was edited one day just to remove the Green from the rotwing bow text. >.>

Falrow · Jul 21, 2006, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Err, verify before you talk?

The skills are indeed 3 second activation time in game, go and check if you doubt me.

Also, just last skill update Greater was changed to 45 second recast instead of it's starting 60.

Next time think before you post, mmmmk?

Kalki · Jul 21, 2006, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falrow

Is the proof of a stealth update?

Proof? LOL! Don't ever become a lawyer.

I never payed attention to those skills casting time, but I guess it always felt like 3 seconds. Maybe I'm just another brainwashed Anet fanboy though. Either that or you're paranoid and need to get out and enjoy your summer more.

Unrealer · Jul 21, 2006, 05:56 AM // 05:56

okay, not like it was a good to skill to begin with, and besides from that, no one ever uses it, why do you take notice in these stupid retarded stuffs?

RTSFirebat · Jul 21, 2006, 06:01 AM // 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falrow

Err, verify before you talk?

The skills are indeed 3 second activation time in game, go and check if you doubt me.

Also, just last skill update Greater was changed to 45 second recast instead of it's starting 60.

Next time think before you post, mmmmk?

Can you not be so rude? Try to be a bit more polite on these forums.

I've been a Ranger since day one, and as far as I can tell these two skills have never been changed ever... both cost and recharge time.

I do think that Winter and Greater Conflag did have a 60 sec recharge time. Maybe they were changed in one of the many skills balances done by A.net.

But neverthless I don't see why this is such a big deal, they aren't the greatest skills in the game, useful but not the greatest.

You could sent A.net support a message and ask them directly if its changed?

Curse You · Jul 21, 2006, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Can you not be so rude? Try to be a bit more polite on these forums.

I've been a Ranger since day one, and as far as I can tell these two skills have never been changed ever... both cost and recharge time.

I do think that Winter and Greater Conflag did have a 60 sec recharge time. Maybe they were changed in one of the many skills balances done by A.net.

But neverthless I don't see why this is such a big deal, they aren't the greatest skills in the game, useful but not the greatest.

You could sent A.net support a message and ask them directly if its changed?

First off, they got changed. They have 45 second recharge now.

Also, I don't think trying to contact Anet will yeild much good. They tend to direct you to one of these sites.

Kalki · Jul 21, 2006, 06:09 AM // 06:09

I think Firebat forgot about the secret consipiracy to ruin everyone's life! ANet won't give you the Truth only the "truth"...

/queue xfilesmusic

Falrow · Jul 21, 2006, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalki

Proof? LOL! Don't ever become a lawyer.

I never payed attention to those skills casting time, but I guess it always felt like 3 seconds. Maybe I'm just another brainwashed Anet fanboy though. Either that or you're paranoid and need to get out and enjoy your summer more.

What more would consitute proof? It was 5 seconds at release, and 3 seconds now. Without any official documentation of the change. And it's a skill balance thus quite unlikly to fall through the cracks. What else do you want?

I'm just as much in love with Anet as the next fanboy, but:

1. Someone has to play devils advocate.
2. I'd rather keep them on the straight and narrow path of making good games with transparency by pointing out every little mistake they make. Makes it less likely they make the big mistakes that acctually make a difference.
3. Just recently the subject of stealth updates was discussed with Gaile.

Also I'm very sure it was 5 seconds at release, otherwise it would never have been entered as a 5 second skill in the wiki, then have the page changed only 2 months ago to 3 seconds. Here's the GuildWarsGuru skill page, that currently says 5 second activation:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/skill/4...-conflagration

KamikazeChicken · Jul 21, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

These skills were used heavily back in the age of spirit spam, so let's not say they were never used.

Falrow · Jul 21, 2006, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Also, no one has any theories as to when it was changed to 3 second activation? It's sometime before May 24th, we know that much.

Anybody?

Also I find it much more effective getting Anet's attention by getting a good thread going about the issue rather then simply me telling them. They say it themselfs, they read the forums everyday, but I bet only certain people (PR people) are allowed to post as Anet on community forums.

Also by making a thread you can be sure you are correct, instead of looking over one small thing and wasting their time

Kalki · Jul 21, 2006, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Alright then I'll do my own little research on this, and contribute to your investigation. My last 2 posts were sarcastic, but now I'm serious. I'll post what I find in an hour.

RTSFirebat · Jul 21, 2006, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

First off, they got changed. They have 45 second recharge now.

Also, I don't think trying to contact Anet will yeild much good. They tend to direct you to one of these sites.

Relax, I said I wasn't sure they were changed or not.

Also I've contact A.net for information, and got replies plenty of times. So why not give it a try? If your polite in your message you always get a reply

ArTy · Jul 21, 2006, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Well GWG still has the recharge listed as 5 so something was changed at one time

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/skill/4...-conflagration

The truth is out there! >_>

Falrow · Jul 21, 2006, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falrow

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/skill/4...-conflagration

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArTy

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/skill/4...-conflagration

Beat you.

Anyways, yah thanks for helping. Any crazy theories?

shardfenix · Jul 21, 2006, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Fact: They cost 3 seconds now. Deal with it, those skills suck anyway.

Another fact: They do stealth updates 50% of the time. Check the notes on guildwiki's update logs about all the things aded to the game that never hit the GW site. (pet dp anyone?)

RTSFirebat · Jul 21, 2006, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

Fact: They cost 3 seconds now. Deal with it, those skills suck anyway.

Another fact: They do stealth updates 50% of the time. Check the notes on guildwiki's update logs about all the things aded to the game that never hit the GW site. (pet dp anyone?)

They do get DP in PvP... but not in PvE. Which makes sense really because it means the pets aren't overpowered while players become weaker with more and more DP.

Quote:

Pets do not receive Death Penalty. NOTE:As of the Friday July 14th update, pets now DO receive death penalty in PvP. Proof of this can be seen in the thread here:http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=410690, where multiple parties have conducted tests proving that pets do now receive the penalty. Gaile has now confirmed that pets DO receive DP in PvP, and has ALSO confirmed that the same change will eventually be implemented in PvE play.

So they will get DP in PvE as well it seems. Just hope the make it easier to work out pet DP.

Falrow · Jul 21, 2006, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

Fact: They cost 3 seconds now. Deal with it, those skills suck anyway.

Another fact: They do stealth updates 50% of the time. Check the notes on guildwiki's update logs about all the things aded to the game that never hit the GW site. (pet dp anyone?)

A skill balance change is a *bit* more relevant when it comes to stealth updates then *PET DP* or NPC changes.

Honestly tho, it doesn't matter how important the change is it matters that they FORGET TO POST SOME OF THE SKILL UPDATES. What else has been missed?

Note: Don't Hi-jack threads to discuss Pet DP. Not like there isn't enoght places to discuss it. If you just wanted to correct him I'm sure a PM would have worked.

RTSFirebat · Jul 21, 2006, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falrow

Note: Don't Hi-jack threads to discuss Pet DP. Not like there isn't enoght places to discuss it. If you just wanted to correct him I'm sure a PM would have worked.

Since when is replying to a post on a public forum a hi-jack?

Your new to the forums it seems. I think you need to relax a bit mate

I was simply putting facts straight before the dicussion moved into a big argument over pet DP.

Its very common for threads to go off topic here, but the always correct themselves, now back on topic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falrow

Honestly tho, it doesn't matter how important the change is it matters that they FORGET TO POST SOME OF THE SKILL UPDATES. What else has been missed?

You said that "Gaile said they never do stealth updates unless they slip through the cracks".

Well in truth no one is perfect, nor is A.net. Companies make mistakes on their patch notes all the time. Often the reason they don't document some changes is due to last minute corrections or additions. Thus they don't modify the patch notes.

Another reason is due to the fact larger updates often change a whole lot of things, so I'm sure its fairly easy for them to mistakely leave some changes out.

They don't purposely do stealth updates unless there is a reason to.

Kalki · Jul 21, 2006, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Well, I did searches through the whole guildwars.com archive of update notes, and couldn't find the casting time changes to Winter and GC. It is strange that Conflagration still has a casting time of 5 seconds yet Winter and GC have a casting time of 3 seconds though.

I'm assuming the change to these skills was made either in April or May, and weren't documented by accident, because they had A LOT of work to do during that time. It's also possible that these 2 skills always had casting times of 3 seconds, and people just assumed "all spirits have 5 second casts". I'm sure mistakes are made in the update notes from time to time, but I still don't see any proof a mistake was made here, only some circumstantial evidence.

You should message Gusnana1412 from guildwiki, since he made the change to the guildwiki page, and is the first known witness to the skill changes.