Curse

Lordhelmos · Jul 22, 2006, 09:01 AM // 09:01

I don't know what the community thinks about this, but im starting to see the build restrictions for entering parties at certains areas in the game becoming extremely limited. For example, I was at sorrows furnace trying to to quests as an elementalist and couldn't find anyone because the place was flooded with 5 man oro teams looking for bonders, necros, and tanks to run green farms. It's disturbing to see alot of areas in the game turning out like this. Tombs of the Primevil Kings is especially bad with BP rangers.

I am well aware that because of the nature of the game and people eventually discovering efficient builds for clearing certains areas, avoiding this is impossible. Lately I've been opening my world map and having a hard time finding a place to go or something to do because im not playing a "specific" build that is in high demand for the area.

Just being forced to run a specific setup to mechanically handle a certain run or area is whats is really making things monotonous. It sucks to go into Warcamp and be pretty much useless to the party community for not being an SS necro or bonder.

This is a major issue in the game and I believe turns alot of people off from really getting into guildwars unless you become a hardcore pvper, and even that requires specific setups (I.E. bloodspike, IWAY).

Asking for a solution to this problem would be like saying I wanted gravity to be reversed. But I just wanted to point this out because I'm sure alot of people are feeling the same way about things.

I still remember in presearing when things were fresh there werent alot of problems like this. Presear was one of the funnest areas of the game. Later the fun factor begins to die out in PvE when you find out that out of the 600 or so skills you have, only about 20 of them are really worth anything. With the rampart farming and such it seems like no one will accept you in a party unless you fulfulll the cookie cutter role that they need you to. This kind of community makes doing quests and missions seem more like a chore rather than being any fun.

I guess thats what being a team player is all about right?

I just wanted some feedback on this so see what you all thought about this.

Clord · Jul 22, 2006, 09:07 AM // 09:07

I usually just join party and mission start (European English District).

Shadow of Light · Jul 22, 2006, 09:08 AM // 09:08

I will admit it can be rather annoying to play a monk, and suddenly be everyone's best friend when it comes to missions etc... then change to mesmer, and be 'sought after' by practically nothing. However, it's only to be expected, I think. And there's nothing stopping you (or me) from forming your own party however we wish.

Lordhelmos · Jul 22, 2006, 09:09 AM // 09:09

yeah I play international always now as well, places like tombs and FoW/UW in the american district are just BAD.

Lordhelmos · Jul 22, 2006, 09:12 AM // 09:12

That is true, im just trying to point out what I believe to be some community stagnation. In places like Sorrows, people just run the same Oro groups over and over. No one will do the missions... and with tombs is the same group build everytime. These are the two areas that are giving me problems, you just can't help but to feel "Locked Out" of these places.

Henchies Ftw.

Saphatorael · Jul 22, 2006, 09:12 AM // 09:12

I miss the days of pre-searing too, when everybody was so crappy at the game... but then again, some people still are after 12 months of play, thinking that if they play a cookie cutter build, they can crush anything...

And indeed, some things look to me as chores, but if you want to gain fame/rank, you'll need to 'farm' it... some people see farming as something boring, some like doing it, some want to do it to achieve their goal (FoW armor, a new rank emote)... I haven't gone to HA for over 2 months now (am rank 4), but all i keep hearing from guildies is that everybody plays the same damn build... i only go nowadays to play a different build, and to my regret, it's not always as effective as the cookie cutter builds...

Orinn · Jul 22, 2006, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Realizing this "locked out" mentality is what finally made me delete my first character, a mesmer I finished the game with. I liked the character, but I realized that unless I henchied, I wasn't going to see TPK, Sorrow's Furnace (the really bad one), UW, whatever. I get annoyed at times not being able to find a group with my mains, so then i log on my monk for a while. At least I know then that groups won't kick me just because I'm an assassin (had that happen) or because I was playing R/Rt with spirits instead of a pet (that one too).

xuemin · Jul 22, 2006, 09:41 AM // 09:41

i know the feeling, my first char was my ele and she's only ever touched SF once because before eles were kicked off that list of wanted SF-farmers list, all they wanted were echo/renewal nukers which i didn't want to do. but it also seems that echo/renewal nukers are the only acceptable build for eles now so my ele is pretty much out of action T_T

i'm also finding it hard to experiment with my necro since pretty much everyone demands me to be MM/SS/BiP.

the only char i have no problems with is my monk build-wise, as long as i make an obvious effort to keep people alive they don't really care what build i run. but playing the same char over and over is boring.

Amity and Truth · Jul 22, 2006, 09:54 AM // 09:54

It has long been a real problem in Guildwars. It is not really some kind of balance issue, but it is a problem of mentality and flavor. The class discrimination is omnipresent and sometimes even happening in a guild that is else a real good one. You just can't prevent to be suffering from it unless you're having one of those ultra rare good guilds or go henchie. The first is very unlikely as there are maybe 5 or 6 good guilds out there while the rest is simply tripping over egos sooner or later. And the second option gets boring really fast.

If it were limited to a few areas, one could deal with it, but it is as i said, omnipresent. Everywhere. UW and FOW are quite bad, the SF Build is just hammered into stone. No way anyone is gonna change that anytime soon. Missions are a problem "we need xx more warriors, and an echo nuker!". But from my experience, where this behavior gets REALLY REALLY bad is in the elitemissions.
For some reason the "Elite" in the "Elitemission" attracts total jerks and downright morons in large numbers. Prepare to get flamed to death if you want to go without boredom trappers. And if you tell your team somehow that the ritualist makes the whole Elitemission too easy, they'll flame you to death and insist that a Ritualist is making it impossible to complete the Mission. Uh huh. And uh, never ever think about asking the Ranger to not drop Quickening Zephyr in the middle of a battle. etc etc. And well, whereas in SF you simply get a kick out of the team, in the elitemissions you'll be flamed to death and your reputation will be smashed and stomped into the ground by public accusations and namecalling.
Next time you log in it is like "lol the noob ritualist, every team be adviced, utter noob, don't take him!"

isamu kurosawa · Jul 22, 2006, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Im hoping nightfall has area's with foes resistant to certain builds, such as Fire dmg immunity and dark dmg heals, whereas smiting, water, chaos dmg hit (in some cases for double).

Basically anything to make the underused attributes/Proffessions Shine and cookie cutter impossible.

You could even have lots of stance breaking for the "tanks"

maybe then the warriors will learn to use the weapon they hold.

Numa Pompilius · Jul 22, 2006, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

I don't know what the community thinks about this, but im starting to see the build restrictions for entering parties at certains areas in the game becoming extremely limited. ---
I am well aware that because of the nature of the game and people eventually discovering efficient builds for clearing certains areas, avoiding this is impossible.

I agree that it's a big problem (yesterday I failed finding a PUG for Raisu Palace for either my mesmer or my ranger) but the solution is simple: randomize placement and composition and abilities of mobs.
Specialized builds become dominant because people know exactly what to expect, and where, when entering.

I honestly don't see why ANet doesn't already randomize placement+composition+abilities of mobs. It's not like it's hard to think of, or hard to do. Possibly they're afraid to make some areas too hard for newbs?

The core problem, though, is that the PvE metagame now can be summed up as "whoever has most stuff wins".
This is entirely the playerbase fault, not ANets - people have simply decided that Guildwars, a game where loot actually matters hardly at all wrt gameplay, is entirely and completely about loot.

0mar · Jul 22, 2006, 10:27 AM // 10:27

It's the fault of PvE. It's static, abusable and wholly optimized now.

Andy_M · Jul 22, 2006, 11:06 AM // 11:06

And getting a pug together in the crystal desert is still as much fun as always if you are a ranger....Mind you, what with all those bots in Elona, ect.

Talon one · Jul 22, 2006, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0mar

It's the fault of PvE. It's static, abusable and wholly optimized now.

true.
there have been some efforts to make it slightly less abusable (aoe nerf, minion master nerf, book trick fix, tank nerf). but i think it would be fun if the maps were less static, like a more random group composition/placement and maybe giving the monsters an extra random skill.

the static pve environment will always lead to highly optimized cookie cutter builds that are in high demand. if you want to play the game properly, you have to either join random pugs, start your own group or play with friends and guildies.

felinette · Jul 22, 2006, 11:21 AM // 11:21

It would also be nice if there was more game support for forming parties. There are lots of players (like just about everyone on this thread) who would be willing to go out with a "non-standard" party, but how to find these people? In many towns, everyone is standing around "LFG", and there are clearly enough people LFGing to form a group, but nobody wants to take the initiative and lead so no group is formed. If there was a way to scan a list of people looking, and their levels and professions, a party could be formed quickly. And make the henchies a more viable option because when Nightfall comes out, they'll probably be the only ones you can group with in Prophecies and Factions.

Quote:

randomize placement and composition and abilities of mobs.
Specialized builds become dominant because people know exactly what to expect, and where, when entering.

Good idea. It would also increase replayability.

Another idea someone had was to somehow add the ability to join a party the game puts together. For example, when you enter a mission town, you could press a "Join Party" button, and as soon as enough people have done that, you enter the mission area. Yes, it means you might end up with no monks, but it could be very interesting and fun.

Raxxman · Jul 22, 2006, 11:26 AM // 11:26

other problem is drops though.

I've been going for my protector title and playing the actual missions.

Last 4 missions (and bonus) I haven't recieved a single gold item in drops, or even a purple (got some purple runes, but we all know they're worthless)

With utterly crud drops like that you can understand why people will run farming builds, it's the only way to get anything decent that's not collectors at all.

*edit* I would love randomisation.

zakaria · Jul 22, 2006, 11:29 AM // 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa

Im hoping nightfall has area's with foes resistant to certain builds, such as Fire dmg immunity and dark dmg heals, whereas smiting, water, chaos dmg hit (in some cases for double).

You are completly shutting down cookie cutter builds to creat other builds that will be after time the new cookie cutter builds..you didn't solve anything, think of another.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

honestly don't see why ANet doesn't already randomize

Nice but in matter of fact PvEers abandon PvP coz it is very competitve they can't compete the meta game there..this why they have their own static world.Imagine that you have to make your team build in half hour or more incase of you encountered mobs of build X or build Y..then you lose the mission coz you discover that all foes in mission are in build Z. It's nice idea for someone has no proplem with time to keep trying over and over if he lost but most of us doesn't. It can be good idea for elite missions for CH 4 or 5 but not all the theme of missions.

Mr_T_bot · Jul 22, 2006, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Honestly, Barrage/Pet is the only consistently workable Tombs model I ever played in. That is as a monk so I had no shortage of groups to check out when Tombs opened.

The truth itself · Jul 22, 2006, 11:51 AM // 11:51

This is a problem of game balance, some builds are too good compared to others in some areas, and i don't see anything else to do, than to buff a lot of skills, to open up the skill bars a bit.

isamu kurosawa · Jul 22, 2006, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by zakaria

You are completly shutting down cookie cutter builds to creat other builds that will be after time the new cookie cutter builds..you didn't solve anything, think of another.

I dont mean every area. Cookie cutter builds are used in EVERY area now, making a player have to switch builds to suit the area (as the game should have been) combined with a little randomisation as stated, would be realy helpful in solving the problem.