Curse

Mercury Angel · Jul 26, 2006, 12:34 AM // 00:34

One key difference between Blood Spiking, and what a Dervish heavy party would have is that melee-weapon based damage requires far more investment.

You HAVE to run a decent amount of hex and condition removal to keep your offensive line clean, or else all the buffs in the world won't matter in the end.

To that end, Contemplation of Purity is a great start on the D/Mo Scythe Masters. Lose 3+ enchantments to remove a sizable chunk of conditions and hexes, while gaining a bit of extra health and energy in the process.

I personally think that if it did become a build, you'd see a 4-5 sized melee offensive line, probably packing Contemplation of Purity, possibly Aegis, and I'd be surprised if they didn't run Infuse Health or some other spell for spike support heals, 1-2 dedicated party buffers and cleaners, and 1-2 size monk backline.

I'd actually prefer Order of the Vampire for the added resilience, but the lack of synergy with the other party-wide necro enchantments is unfortunate.
I see a D/Mo taking the current place of the party E/Mo, providing buffs and support without the need for Ether Prodigy, and although the loss of Blinding Flash is unfortunate, the ability to use spells like Shield of Deflection would be nice.

In any case, this is all speculation based on how I interpret the primary as working.

Jin Of Stealth · Jul 26, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

I'm still waiting for the touch dervish to happen

unholy guardian · Jul 26, 2006, 12:42 AM // 00:42

how will you get a touch dervish? 15 energy a touch is hefty

Iraqalypse Now · Jul 26, 2006, 12:46 AM // 00:46

@Mercury Angel

Dervishes have earth prayers and wind prayers - that might be good enough spike damage to go halfway between "dervish-way" and "dervish spike". 2 Dervish enchant spammers, 4 dervish/monk prot spammers with spell spiking and condition removal, 2 dervish/warrior AoE guys with Fear Me.

Of course, it all depends on how badly a Scythe Dervish can abuse having 10 extra pips of energy regen, as opposed to their ability to spike people with wind or earth prayers. If it leans towards the former, expect to see a dervish version of IWAY. If it leans towards the latter, expect to see a dervish version of necrospike. With the ease of supporting OoP, Dark Fury, and OoA, I'd expect to see meelee - possibly De/Mo with CoP, possilby De/W fear me abuse, who knows.

David Lionmaster · Jul 26, 2006, 01:06 AM // 01:06

I'm thinking of going D/A and putting points into shadow arts. Shadow Refuge seems more useful of a self heal now if you combine it with mysticism. You get the short health regen, and in 4 seconds you get the small conditional heal and the mysticism health and energy. Having 10 points in mysticism makes the shadow refuge free. Thats just the first combo that poped into my head, I'm sure there are better ones though.

Phades · Jul 26, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solar_Takfar

ah yes, the mysticism bonus is most likely only for self-enchantments. And it makes sense, since the dervies will rely on them for protection.

One thing I didn't like much... earth prayers and wind prayers, they kind of kill the point of making a D/E.

Doesnt it seem strange to anyone else to have a cold damage specialist native to a desert environment? Although the "movement" based skills sound like windborn speed derivitatves, whirlwind clones, and some sort of parrallel to ice based snares. Although it would be amusing to have a party wide windborn speed enchant being thrown around, but not for anyone who used a elementalist to cast it prior to the release.

BenO_Under · Jul 26, 2006, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felbryn

@BenO_Under:

In the original announcement, Spear Mastery was listed as primary, not Leadership. They have since changed it; one presumes the original listing was a mistake.

Well the first time i saw the posting Leadership was was primary but thanks anyway

T Lo · Jul 26, 2006, 03:34 AM // 03:34

a touch dervish, interesting.

order of the vampire and the two vamp touches make for a solid, constant supply of energy. especially since order hits everyone in the party so often, and expires every 5 seconds.

edit: "order of the vampire" and "order of the campire" are not to be confused! one has a letter rotated 90 degrees...

unholy guardian · Jul 26, 2006, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Lionmaster

I'm thinking of going D/A and putting points into shadow arts. Shadow Refuge seems more useful of a self heal now if you combine it with mysticism. You get the short health regen, and in 4 seconds you get the small conditional heal and the mysticism health and energy. Having 10 points in mysticism makes the shadow refuge free. Thats just the first combo that poped into my head, I'm sure there are better ones though.

that be really cool, self heal and free to boot, just think even if you aren't in combat when it ends you still get healed!!! Wow that be great if in combat you could get like 80+ health as an extra boost... hmm weird how a self heal seems better when used with a different profession lol

if you had like 10 mystisim and like 8 or something shadow arts just imagine if you had a scythe of enchanting

6 seconds of +x not sure how much health regen when it ends it's payed off AND you, since you should be in combat as it sounds like will get the awesome boost of it ending with free energy the 30 free health and the extra ~50 health

that just like rocks... almost too much still it would be so freaken awesome, and i know i would do that if it worked out like that.

That was brilliant of you to post, i would give you a high five, but eh i can't. Be a cool way to combine my favorite two professions, hope it works

ubermancer · Jul 26, 2006, 04:08 AM // 04:08

The Dervish simply must have drawbacks we are not taking into consideration, because the mechanic as presented is absurd.

5 energy and 30 health per enchantment ending? Perhaps this is only when they end on your foes, or only enchants you cast, but still..?

Also this PBAOE attack stuff seems like it has the potential to be a good idea gone bad. It feels like ANet trying to work in whatever fevered dream convinced them to create the (pre-release, pre-nerf) skill "Triple Chop". Which, btw, used to be the same as it is now except it rapidly (near instantly) hit all adjacent foes 3 times. Yeah...

Ill hold my tongue till I see it in action, but I anticipate I will have quite a lot to say.

Arcador · Jul 26, 2006, 05:27 AM // 05:27

I bet it is only considered on you, otherwise he will be immortal in some builds, getting +5 energy per sec and geting healed for 30 non stop.

I am sure it will be pretty much balanced

, let us see on friday

Hamanu · Jul 26, 2006, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Speculation at this point seems like an exercise in futility. If you take the description of mysticism at face value the line is remarkably broken, so broken that I can't imagine that this is something that they missed in testing. There is something that we're missing, maybe it only works on dervish enchantments, maybe only on enchantments that you cast yourself. Even then it seems pretty bloody powerful. One thing that stands out to me ; I think that we're going to see the end of the e/mo flag runner. A dervish sounds perfect in this role. They have the speed buffs, they have an incredible energy engine, and through a monk secondary they will have excellent support skills.

Remember that we're also getting 300 new skills. I don't know how they intend to divide this, likely 75 for the new classes, and maybe 30 for assassin and rit, with 15 for each of the originals? However it works out it's quite possible that there is a reason that dervishes have to have this kind of absurd attribute line. Though I don't really see how that's possible without destabilising every other profession. No matter what happens I'm looking forward to giving these guys a try.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Doesnt it seem strange to anyone else to have a cold damage specialist native to a desert environment?

Deserts get bloody cold at night, especially the arctic desert of northern Canada. I've seen it get to -70C there, and I've heard of worse. Even the Sahara gets cold enough at night for water (and people) to freeze.

Ventius Hozza · Jul 26, 2006, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Angel

under the assumption that it's only enchantments ending on the Dervish, doesn't have a really broken combo going for it.

In my post about the D/Mo smiter, I was under the influence that enchantments ending meant ones you cast and ones that end on you. If this has changed since I have been asleep is a different matter, but picture this:

Typical monk AoE smiter, however every time you cast guardian, it removes the last guardian and you get health and energy back. A more damage approach for smiting?

WhiteZombie · Jul 26, 2006, 11:05 AM // 11:05

methinks the only sane explanation is its just enchantments you cast on yourself. blah... 2 more days and we'll find out

Malchior Devenholm · Jul 26, 2006, 01:31 PM // 13:31

I can see how everyone would think this is overpowered, I see it however as the Dervishes saving grace.

Remember, these guys have cloth armor, so they aint suited to being a wammo tank with 100+ armor

I suspect they have 60 *maybe 70 to match with sin* AL as a base and Mysticism is a small bit of help to keep their health going even though they have low armor for a melee class

Redwinter · Jul 26, 2006, 01:45 PM // 13:45

My suspicion is that it's for each enchantment on you that expires, not ends.

If that's the case, since few enchantments last less than 5 seconds, it'd be a strong balancing factor, while still being good.

I can't imagine it's for each enchant nearby, or each enchantment you've cast.

If it's simply each enchantment on you that ends (not expires), then you'd still need a large investment in Mysticism (12 attribute points + 4 from hat & rune), and that leaves you with a 12-12-3 or 12-11-8 (I think) line. Not great for actual capability. I'm sure it works, to an extent, but the time investment in battle to regain energy, and the general investment of resources you're dedicating to yourself... well... I think other monks would be more consistent, than a D/Mo using a quarter of his time to buff his energy. (Imagine if he has only a energy cap of 20, add maybe 12 for a protection staff, that's 32, maybe 37 with an insightful mod. Not ~terrific~.).

As for the character classes, I don't think they're adding any skills for assassin & rit. That'd leave us with 25 skills per base class and 75 for the new ones. Then, most likely as a 'bonus' (as in Factions), I'd expect to see 5-ish duplicate skills per class.

Former Ruling · Jul 26, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Leadership seems more stable and wont hit a wording/nerf fan.

With leadership, and the right ranges, you could Spam Chants/Shouts that cost 5 energy all day. Even at 12 in Leadership, you are getting 4 energy back for the shouts/chants.

Nightwish · Jul 26, 2006, 07:12 PM // 19:12

As being said, probably balanced by:

1.) End of self enchantments (decent self enchant fuel) or

2.) Expiry of the enchantments rather than premature end (hence not getting any additional benefits from end of RoF upon hit)

unholy guardian · Jul 26, 2006, 08:22 PM // 20:22

i don't know... still seems somewhat balance.. i mean a caster hate mesmet would destroy you... badly, and gaze of contempt would bascially kill you as well, there are plenty of balances, maybe this class will just make those more appealing?

David Lionmaster · Jul 26, 2006, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by unholy guardian

that be really cool, self heal and free to boot, just think even if you aren't in combat when it ends you still get healed!!! Wow that be great if in combat you could get like 80+ health as an extra boost... hmm weird how a self heal seems better when used with a different profession lol

if you had like 10 mystisim and like 8 or something shadow arts just imagine if you had a scythe of enchanting

6 seconds of +x not sure how much health regen when it ends it's payed off AND you, since you should be in combat as it sounds like will get the awesome boost of it ending with free energy the 30 free health and the extra ~50 health

that just like rocks... almost too much still it would be so freaken awesome, and i know i would do that if it worked out like that.

That was brilliant of you to post, i would give you a high five, but eh i can't. Be a cool way to combine my favorite two professions, hope it works

Thanks. I've been looking at other shadow arts skills, and if you use shadow form, when it ends, you will end up with about 60 health instead of around 30, which is considerably better. Also, if you use heart of shadow, the next time you take damage you will gain around 90 health opposed to around 60. This is all taking into account you have 10 mysticism and 9 shadow arts. 10 mysticism would make these skills free too. This weekend I think I'm going to try out a D/A build with 10 mysticism, 16 scythe mastery, and 9 shadow arts.