Curse

Golgotha · Jun 19, 2005, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Players complaining about my healing due to me being low on energy because they aggro every mob in sight receive no healing or resurrection. Simple as that, really. I can now focus on the group that are actually playing as a team. I've found in 90% of my PUG's, the Warriors are complete morons, and fall under this category of the blacklisted.

crayzechick · Jun 19, 2005, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Well, one thing I think most people forget, is that you need to be able to fend for yourself, to some extent. Every class has the ability to heal themselves at least a little, and they need to bring that ability and use it when appropriate. A monk's job is to heal and rez and make your life easier, but it is not to make you invincible.

LathalDraugr · Jun 19, 2005, 04:47 AM // 04:47

I love how most of the people claim that monks get the blame no matter who messes up then proceed to lay the blame solely on the warriors.

Maybe you're being as unreasonable to the warriors as you claim other people are to monks perhaps? I would say the blame falls often on the warrior not because of any lack of skill or because W/Mo are "noobs" but simply because if a warrior is doing their job they go ahead of the group and take the aggro. Unfortunately for them, to be able to do their job they need to know when the monks and casters are low on energy etc. Now when you get a good group who do keep you informed theres no excuse but frequently other players just don't tell you or burn through their energy in 5 seconds using inefficient spells then tell everyone to turn and run simply because they can't manage their energy. OTOH if a warrior hangs back they get the blame for not being at the front/moving too slowly or worse they end up encouraging a non-warrior to tank resulting in a death that will be blamed on the warrior as well.

To be honest I think half the reason so many people are complaining about noobs is because they can't deal with the fact that this is a team game and sometimes a team fails not because of a lack of skill on the part of other players but just because of indecision, poor communication and egocentric players. When this happens people turn to the easiest target, for tanks this is the monk who is healing them and for the monks the easiest target is the warrior who takes the aggro despite the fact that the actions of the other players have a massive effect on the sucess or failure of the fight.

In short whether your problem is "noob" W/Mo or healers who seem not to be doing their part your first option should be to consider what you could have done better not what the other guy has done wrong. And quite frankly I've played as plenty of characters with and against plenty of people and I have to say 90%+ of the people I've teamed with have been at least competent if not brilliant players so quite frankly if you're having serious problems perhaps the problem lies with you not with the "noob" Monk, Warrior, Ranger etc.

Miyamoto Tzu · Jun 19, 2005, 02:34 PM // 14:34

I'm in the habit of ctrl-clicking my Energy bar at the end of every fight.

You would be amazed how often this is ignored by the Warriors.

Me: "My Energy is 3 of 54"

Warrior X: "I'm Attacking Mursaat Elementalist!"

...this happens all the time. There should be a break period of at least 20 seconds in between each fight. This will at least allow all concerned to regen up to 50% or more Energy/Health before the next encounter.

Some parts of some areas require full Health/Energy for all party members before each encounter.

The game was "Designed" with a certain pacing in mind...probably based on a bunch of R&D done by ANet or other companies concerning peoples attention spans and constant need for instant gratification style input.

A brief rest period in between challenging encounters is not unreasonable in the least..sometimes that rest period happens while running to the next group of monsters...again the areas are designed with resource caps and regen rates in mind.

Stupid people who don't understand basic game design concepts/methodologies often catalyse mission failures and oodles of DP just because they think of GW as a standard hack n slash like D2 where as long as you have a backpack full of heal potions, you can get through veritable armies of bad guys.

Laters,

Tzu

aja · Jun 19, 2005, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

i have one simple question.

i solo with henchies and am not a monk (elemonk)

are you exagerating a bit or do they really agro mobs when you have told them you need to recharge?

in other words are they really that stupid?

happens all the time

The Pope · Jun 19, 2005, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Warriors keep adrenaline charged between fights if they go between them quickly. Thats the real reason they always charge. The good ones will slow down if you say you're low on energy and do a minimap ping, but don't expect them to take a big break after every fight when that means giving up a multi hit adren combo.

PS: I mainly play a monk.

The Destroyer · Jun 19, 2005, 08:32 PM // 20:32

I have played both a warrior and a monk now and I find that all these concerns would be pointless if people would have a little patience and take a breather in between fights. Regroup restate the strat and go at the next mob. As a warrior I know no matter how big and bad my warrior is I am not the damage dealer that an Ele is I am there to take a beating and use my melee skills to finish off weakened monsters not kill them singlehanded with my adrenal skills. On the same note as a monk i stay as far back as possible and heal as much as I can. I can not keep everyone alive all the time and I have accepted that fact. The rest of the party for the most part realizes this and doesnt get to upset when someone drops. I have to make a choice on who lives and who occasionally drops like a sack of potatoes and this is based on who is better able to keep the party going in the environment we are in. In short we all need to stop placing blame and start working together. Just my 2 cents

MRCG · Jun 19, 2005, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Fortunately, I've ran into groups who understand the monks role and their limitations. Of course, their are the times when you get the occasional, "Stupid monk, heal me faster!" remark. I basically just ignore them and keep playing. If it becomes THAT much of a problem, leaving is not an issue to me.

Feli · Jun 19, 2005, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Today i saw a situation that made me laugh. Laugh at the idiocy of some people.
There was a monk in Tombs, spamming "experienced Monk LFG - 250 Gold Salary!!!!!!!!!".
I was copying his spam and putting in 0 gold instead of 250. Well... a party called me "noob", kicked me out in favor of an "experienced" monk (i was playing my monk as well).

I got into another party and we started the battle. Believe it or not, we stumbled upon the team i've been in before. The team the greedy monk was in, well... was awfully unorganized. We managed to take out their Monks in no time. They died real fast and the greedy monk was spamming swearings about his team all the time and that he shouldn't have teamed up with noobs in the first place. blabla... funny thing is, we got attacked by another team ... the battle was fierce and hard and us being weakened did die once. Priest alive, we were back in action. Killed the other team and went for the greedy monk team.

Thats when i almost died from laughter. There he stood, the uber monk of them all. Beneath his fallen teammates and was spamming nonsense about us being noobs and them being noobs and him going back to gvg and whatever.
You know why i laughed? He forgot his revive Spell.

FelineFury · Jun 19, 2005, 09:46 PM // 21:46

I'm an E/Mo and i never got any of this stuff. I feel like i'm missing something.

Tactical-Dillusions · Jun 19, 2005, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Last night i went from abbadons mouth (after we won) to the northern wall.

I put mending on all three of the noobs i was helping. Not one of them listened to my instructions or advice except for one occasion when the leader went back for the quest item he didn't pick up (after i told him to).

During the mission, they never communicated with each other or myself and they at times ended up scattered all over the map, breaking the enchantments which were keeping them alive.

Only after one of them took heavy damage, did he scream out "we need to stick together!!!!!!". What a fool, runs off, gets hurt and blames everyone else who were busy running in opposite directions. If he just stayed with me...oh well.
We did the mission eventually. I had to laugh when they started to run towards the charr invasion force. A stern beep and arrow on the radar sent them the right way, while i tried in vain to heal myself to the max and hold off the army who huddled round me like a swarm of frenzied ants on a caterpillar.
I never collected any items, never got any xp and never got a thankyou at the end.

"Play Nolani guys?"

[Click - leave]

It intigues me how such people can grow and flourish into the mighty and the brave that grace the deadliest regions of Tyria.

Paladin_Adoni · Jun 19, 2005, 11:24 PM // 23:24

If you ever want a SMART W/Mo. look me up. im the guy that asks at the start of the mission.

CLICK your ENERGY after each battle please!

and keep grinding it into each caster until they do it

I also keep an eye on the monk. if he gets attack, I stand between him and the enemy (when appropriate, obviously if theres a group of 8 dudes, beating the crap out of someone else, and 1 little dude attacking the monk, I will leave him be until the load is lightened up.)

I also have healing skills. and will gladly use them on anyone (monk comes first. if the monk is really low on health, hes obviously out of energy)

so yeah. you want a smart tank. thats nice and listens and uses some strategy. look me up!

Santosh · Jun 20, 2005, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by theclam

The best way to reduce Monk abuse is to keep everyone alive.

Uh, this could be true if all group members are good players. It only takes one moron to screw up a mission/quest.

Santosh · Jun 20, 2005, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aranarth

Don't let them bother you too much. There are good groups out there, and when they are looking to fill that 8th slot, who do you think they are going to invite first? Everyone loves monks!

Those idiots who scream at you for letting them kill themselves are bad players, and good players know this when they hear it. Most of the time, they are not bad to that extreme, so go join another group and be glad you never have to group with those morons again.

Edit: To the last poster, Healing Touch and Reversal of Fortune can help you out a great deal with keeping yourself safe. I am not sure what your build looks like, but even my divine boon healer uses Reversal with nothing in protections due to the fact that it can absorb the big hit. Totally negating a lightning orb or a hammer blow is a great help.

Aranarth, all of what you say here is so true. Especially the: "Those idiots who scream at you for letting them kill themselves are bad players, and good players know this when they hear it."

Good players know if you're a good monk, whereas bad players don't have a clue. Unfortunately, it seems the morons far outnumber the good ones.

Santosh · Jun 20, 2005, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

We should start a monk support circle

Monks Anonymous!

I'll start. Lol.

Hi, my name is Santosh. I'm a monk, ascended, finished the game, and now wandering the Underworld and Fissure places.

I am immune to insults. I also think bad players never read message boards.

Santosh · Jun 20, 2005, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingley Joe

Just wanted to say that I think maybe some of the tendancy W/x's have for rushing into battle without waiting is due to the fact that after a fight they have a full load of adrenaline they feel the need to use (and likely a skill bar full of skills that require it).

Lots of warrior builds don't rely all that much on energy either, so that compounds the problem.

Not like that's an excuse at all, but it does make a bit of sense if you look at it from that perspective..

That's not a good excuse. Not even remotely close to being a good excuse. That's just plain bad judgement to attack just because you have adrenaline.

Creston · Jun 20, 2005, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by crayzechick

People are either really really grateful and polite to their monks (seems to be rare, however) or just complete jerks. It's always the monk's fault when the warriors run around stupidly, not waiting for energy. Or when the casters don't hang back far enough and then stand there while their paper armor does nothing to protect them. How is it that I'm the greatest monk alive one minute and then complete scum that's too stupid to know anything the next?

I didn't make a monk for myself, exactly. I made it because I noticed there was a big shortage of monks and for the sake of those wanting to group. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing my monk in a good group. And, forgive my arrogance, but I'm a damn good healer. But in the crappy groups, I'd rather play a character that doesn't get slammed, abused, and treated absolutely horribly all the time. Key phrases I don't EVER want to hear again.

"Do your job, monk."
"Where is the healing, monk?"
"This group has no healing."
"wtf, why did I die monk?"
"Heal me!" (ya know, I'm not even going to see that because my eyes are glued to the red bars, not the chat).

Somehow the fact that I play a monk means I don't have a name. I'm not really a person. In which case, people should probably just settle for Alesia. More are going to have to now. I quit my monk.

I find it helps to get some rules straight BEFORE you go onto a mission.

1) You are the monk, YOU are in charge of healing. If people don't like it, leave the party.
2) When you CTRL CLICK your energy, it means you need a recharge. This means your party will WAIT before charging in. If they say they won't, leave the party.
3) Only one mob aggro'd at a time. Sometimes it can't be avoided, and then you do the best you can, but... If they say "Wtf n00b, OMFGLOL!!!!11!1one!1 or whatever the hell it is these idiots type, leave the party.
4) WARRIORS tank, nobody else does. A mage tanks, he dies. A mesmer tanks, he dies.
Rangers can actually tank pretty well, so you can keep an eye on them. If a squishie, however, decides to tank, or to just stand still while getting mauled, forget about them. Keep the tanks alive if they do their job well.

5) If anyone is abusive to you during the mission, give them one warning. One. If they do it again, simply don't heal them, and don't ress them. They either learn, or they stay dead. It's that simple.

I know that this is harsh, and it's completely retarded that mankind has devolved into a degenerate bunch of ****tards, but apparently this is the ONLY way you get to have some kind of enjoyment out of playing.

Finally, I can refer you to the Birds of A Feather thread, where actual GOOD players have signed up to team together, so you won't be teamed with 12 - 16 year old morons anymore.

I wish there was a voting system in this game. If a player gets 25 votes that say "*sshole" from other players, he gets banned to the *sshole district, where he can only play with the other retards. God, that would clean this game up right quick.

Creston

IxChel · Jun 20, 2005, 01:00 AM // 01:00

If you want a serious chance of having a good group; don't accept any invitations. Instead, figure out what sort of build you want to support, and then give your announcement. Once someone has joined, you dictate to them their roles and responsibilities. Ask them to type: "I accept", if not,
you kick them. I divide my recruitment into two stages.

First, I recruit one warrior and one elementalist. Any warrior secondary
will do, although I prefer to stay away from Wa/Mo since they tend to be
so accustom to playing with themselves that they forget about the team.
Likewise, any elementalist will work; I avoid El/Wa since those sorts tend
to tank. Once i get my warrior (Stefan) and elementalist (Orion), I give
them a little chat:

Ok. Us 3 are the core team. Here are the roles:

1. Stefan, you are the tank. It is your primary responsibility to suck up
damage and to keep our foes away from us. If you have to attack
3-5 monsters at once so that they all attack you (and not us) -- do it.
Never chase down an opponent if it would leave us unprotected.

2. Orion, you are the nuker. It is your responsibility to level all of the
monsters that surround Stefan. He gets them together, you kill
them. If you get attacked, stay on target and nuke the opposing
group Stefan has setup -- do not focus on local irritants, keep your
eye on the target.

3. Stefan - only engage monsters when Orion's energy is at full.
Orion - never engage monsters.

4. Stefan, do you have a remote-distance skill you can use to "irritate"
a monster so that they can attack you? If not, could you grab that
spell and use it when you see a foe "leaving" your aggro to attack us?

Stefan and Orion: do you accept?

Then, after we have 3 core team members, it is time to build the surrounding team. Who you choose for this depends upon the particular mission, but I try to get a ballanced team. I do announcements like:

"Ballanced team looking for a mesmer or ranger or necromancer."

Depending on who "joins", I accept them, and tell them this:

5. Reyna, you are our puller. When we are faced with several groups
on our radar, it is your job to run ahead of Stefan, and attack the
moving or closest group first. After you attack, you "lure" them
back to the whole team for the ambush. You should run past
Stefan on the way back, and join me and the Elementalist.

Reyna, you are our trap/snare/interrupter. If we have incoming
foes, it is your job to cripple them or render them ineffective; also,
when facing elementalist, if you can daze them, it'd be great.

6. Dunham, you will take care of our opposing team's casters. Make
sure they are interrupted, or otherwise rendered much less
effective. I'll know if your doing your job when health bars
don't go down that often.

7. Claude, you will take care of our opposing team's warriors. Make
sure they are weakened, fighting minions, etc. I'll know if you're
doing your job when warriors that get past Stefan are rather
inneffective.

These are only suggestions, but in general, I take my sweet time forming
my group and I get them to all tell the team what their roles and responsibilities are. The important thing is for them to "accept" their
role so they know they are playing as a team with other humans and not
with a bunch of faceless robots.

Overall, you will have a bad apple. If during combat someone does
something stupid; and dies, I stop the group: "STOP". And then I ask
them: "Orion, what did you do wrong, why did you die?" If they don't
have an answer, I leave them dead, and I ask them to please disconnect.

In summary, the MONK is the center of the group. If you have a bad PUG experience, it is most likely because you are not being a good active leader. To lead you have to: (a) make sure the build is right, (b) clearly articulate roles and responsibilities, (c) enforce those roles and responsibilities. The only thing I wish is that Arena Net would make a "drop" button so that the group leader can kick a bad apple during the mission.

Keesa · Jun 20, 2005, 04:21 AM // 04:21

I really hate hearing how useless people find rangers. I love 'em.

The best PUGs I've been in have had four and two rangers, respectively (no pure tanks either time), and we did some amazing stuff.

I've been pretty lucky with groups. Only once has someone yelled at me, "Heal faster!" I screamed back, "Then kill faster!" I've had random rudeness but that goes with the territory.

For me it's not the warrior, because I've met some great ones who understand when I am trying to scrape a mob off on them so I can do my job. It's the elementalist, bless 'em, who thinks he or she is a tank and wanders into range of the mob, gets killed, and there goes our DPS. Or it's someone else in the group who:

-doesn't know how to bunch up mobs around their tanks so they can give the casters the best AE opps
-doesn't stay out of poisonous water (or PvP equivalent, stands in chaos storms)
-doesn't recognize when they have Backfire on and cast through it, meaning that by the time I remove hex, they're dead

It's not just the warrior's fault, it's not just the monk's fault. It's a vicious circle, actually. You can establish group comm, you can establish roles and responsibilities, but if players are not taking personal pride in doing a good job and thus making the rest of the team's job easier, everyone has to work twice as hard to cover his or her own job.

Winter King · Jun 20, 2005, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingley Joe

Just wanted to say that I think maybe some of the tendancy W/x's have for rushing into battle without waiting is due to the fact that after a fight they have a full load of adrenaline they feel the need to use (and likely a skill bar full of skills that require it).

Lots of warrior builds don't rely all that much on energy either, so that compounds the problem.

Not like that's an excuse at all, but it does make a bit of sense if you look at it from that perspective..

Sometimes it looks like I'm deliberately rushing into the fight, but I have a very good reason.

More then a few times I've been in groups where a necro/ele/mes/monk insists on being the first into the fight, aggroes a group, and pulls back, which usually scatters the monsters between all the casters in the party. I keep balthazar's aura running most of the time, and rely on that for energy and adrenaline. So, if the monsters are scatter, my character isn't tanking and isn't doing a lot of damage.

With these groups I get to the point where I deliberately aggro a mob, because I realize that if I don't do it, a caster is going to five seconds later. I'd rather try to control the situation and the monster placement; it's the lesser evil.

Sometimes us War/Mo's have reasons for seemingly illogical behavior.

It seems like the biggest concentration of annoying players are in Warriors, Elementals, and Monks. Warriors and Ele's because of stupid playing, and some monks have a huge chip on their shoulder. Ranger's, Necro's, and Mesmer's don't seem to be as bad, but it's also rare that you see Nec's and Mes's in PVE and the ones you do generally seem to know their shit.