Curse

Mister_Smiley · Aug 07, 2006, 09:04 PM // 21:04

We will just have to wait and see what happens, won't we?

Well99 · Aug 07, 2006, 09:23 PM // 21:23

I think they are going to get nerfed big time.Alot of threads from PVP players about nerfing them.I think they should of waited for PVE event before asking for nerf.
As the previous poster said we'll have to wait and see.

Maya Aimi · Aug 07, 2006, 10:26 PM // 22:26

I have tanked 2 enemies at once, an Air ele and a W/Mo. I killed them both and that made me amazed about the power of the Dervish. I include Conviction stance in my build.

Quid Pro Quo · Aug 07, 2006, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Of course, Dervishes are good at getting the upperhand when they are out numbered but I killed Dervishes easily when I got them alone on my warrior but in normal pvp without Dervishes my warrior can take down whole groups on his own.

ubermancer · Aug 07, 2006, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

At most they will take about 20-30 off the holy damage skills which would not affect their usage in PvE a lot, because UNLIKE elemental damage, holy damage IGNORES armor. But it would be interesting to toss in Crystal Wavex2 on a Dervish. Yum yum.

Just like Judge's Insight, right?

Hella Good · Aug 08, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

Just like Judge's Insight, right?

Yea... Ds have a couple of skills that give them holy damage just like JI does, granted no 20% armor pen but these skills last longer and are easily renewable. Heart of Holy Flame and Avatar of Balthazar are the 2 skills that give Ds holy damage attacks. There is some more that simply deal spike holy damage. Holy damage, shadow damage, and life stealing are the only armor ignoring damage types (excluding certain spells that simply deal damage). These are extremely affective against War and other high-armor targets. Ds can cut through Warriors like a hot knife through butter.

Edit: JI does NOT give holy damage, it seems to be light damage. Read below.

sgtclarity · Aug 08, 2006, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

Just like Judge's Insight, right?

No, AFAIK, there are two types of "Holy" damage.
JI falls into the "pseudo" Holy damage, you can tell because Holy damage normally ignores armor... So why would JI have 20% AP? This leads to the fact that the holy damage given by JI is factored like elemental damage, i.e. fire or cold. The damage by Dervish skills (or atleast the majority) are pure holy damage, meaning they are unaffected by armor.
This is just my speculation, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Skyy High · Aug 08, 2006, 02:01 AM // 02:01

There are two explanations. Either
1) Holy damage does NOT ignore armor, and the current monk smiting skills should be reworded with "This spell ignores armor", or
2) Holy damage does ignore armor, and JI actually makes you deal light damage, the same kind of damage that smiting staves and wands do, which also does not ignore armor. Both light and holy are doubled vs undead, so the "ignores armor" part would be the only way to tell them apart.

These would mirror the difference between shadow damage appearing to ignore armor, and dark damage from staffs and wands not. Shadow = Holy, Dark = Light. I believe Chaos damage from wands fits in with dark and light, while mesmer armor-ignoring skills simply say the target "takes damage", not specifying the type of damage.

Hella Good · Aug 08, 2006, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtclarity

No, AFAIK, there are two types of "Holy" damage.
JI falls into the "pseudo" Holy damage, you can tell because Holy damage normally ignores armor... So why would JI have 20% AP? This leads to the fact that the holy damage given by JI is factored like elemental damage, i.e. fire or cold. The damage by Dervish skills (or atleast the majority) are pure holy damage, meaning they are unaffected by armor.
This is just my speculation, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Armor-ignoring, I think, means that the damage is dealt to the target as if it had AL 60. At AL 60 all skills do full damage- 100%. The 20% armor pen, implies that the attack then further penetrates the armor- brings it to about AL 48.

Edit: I tested JI and it is clearly affected by armor, so I would go with the explanation that the damage is light, not holy. The only difference between light and holy damage is that light is affected by armor. But otherwise they both do double damage to undead and + damage to certain necro armors.

easyg · Aug 08, 2006, 04:43 AM // 04:43

The two kinds of holy damage are:

1) Holy damage spells. These completely ignore armour. A Dervish with 15 mysticism will spike exactly 88 damage with Heart of Holy Flame, no matter what he's facing (except undead, who will take 176!).

2) The second kind of holy damage is from a weapon dealing "holy damage". I.e. Judges Insight or the secondary effect of Heart of Holy Flame (i.e. deal holy damage for 30 seconds). Armour factors in here, but even this second type of holy damage is damned good to have, cause whereas a lot of monsters have an armour bonus against certain kinds of physical or elemental damage, nothing has a bonus against holy damage from weapons.

As someone else said, the Dervish has two spells that spike Holy Damage, and both have great secondary effects not even counting the energy and hitpoint regen provided by Mysticism. If the Derv already has an enchantment on, Heart of Holy Flame will be a free cast (it causes one enchantment to be removed, thus triggering all the cool Mysticism benefits). Even better, it's an enchantment in itself, meaning it can be followed by Pious Signet for healing, or yet another damage spike, causing more health and energy regen.

This turns into a self-perpectuating cycle where the Dervish is always regenerating energy and health while spewing out AOE damage at the same time. This is why some people are looking at the D/Mo as a super-duper mega farmer to replace the Mo/W.

Personally, I also think the Derv will be nerfed big time, because this is just going to be too easy to exploit of mega farming. But who knows when Anet will get around to correcting this? As a part-time PvP guy, I don't want the Dervish to be too powerful for PvP. But as a part-time PvEr, I drool at D/Mo's possibilities as a cash cow.

Hella Good · Aug 08, 2006, 01:28 PM // 13:28

So HoHFlame and AoBalthazar make the attacks deal light damage? The way I understand it, holy and light damage are terms used to refer to the same type of damage caused- in the former case- spells and- in the latter- weapon attacks. The only difference being the lack of armor-ignoring in the case of light damage.

Rogmar · Aug 09, 2006, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

Holy damage, shadow damage, and life stealing are the only armor ignoring damage types (excluding certain spells that simply deal damage).

Because Chaos Damage doesn't exist.

Horseman Of War · Aug 09, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

yeah if you have a dervish you will probably be able to solo just about anywhere with little or no solo-build experience.

You guys think D/Mos are bad... hopefully there will be plenty of other uber builds to explore... like D/R, D/Rt, D/E, etc

Lucifer PVP · Aug 09, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogmar

Because Chaos Damage doesn't exist.

I wouldn't say that, most mesmers staves have chaos damage.

Align · Aug 09, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Yeah... which is EXACTLY why the Dervish is going to get nerfed to shit. Crystal Wave is adjacent and removed all negetive conditions. Those are less energy, less recharge, bigger radious, higher damage. Balancing at its finest?

Now that you mention it, what the hell?
Like crystal wave, except no exhaustion and INFLICTS conditions.

Hella Good · Aug 09, 2006, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Align

Now that you mention it, what the hell?
Like crystal wave, except no exhaustion and INFLICTS conditions.

Crystal Wave causes exhaustion? That's some news.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogmar

Because Chaos Damage doesn't exist.

Chaos damage is caused by attacks dealt by Mesmer canes and staves. Chaos damage, just like light damage, and dark damage does not ignore armor. The benefit of these types of damage is that there is no armor that offers specific protection against them (unlike weapons dealing elemental and physical damage). In the case of light damage, you get the added benefit of doing double damage vs undead, and +damage against certain necro armors. When it comes to dark damage = chaos damage. Different terms for something that does exactly the same thing. Bottom line: chaos damage does NOT ignore armor.