Curse

easyg · Aug 11, 2006, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Personally, I thought Prophecies was a lot better than Factions. I'll just list some of the things I didn't like about Factions:

(1) New players reach level 20 too fast because of ramped up quest rewards. I hate to call anyone a noob. But let's face it, there are 20th level noobs all over Cantha. In Tyria, new players generally learned how to play the game a little before reaching 20th level. In Cantha, 20th level comes before the skills come.

(2) Puny map. To put it in perspective, Shing Jea Island -- everyone will agree that this area is very very small -- is about 20% of the explorable surface of Cantha. Ouch!

(3) Boring quests. Yes, in Cantha, all the missions are the same. Kill a lot of stuff. Kill it faster to gain a special reward. There were missions in Tyria that offered interesting tactical challenges. In Cantha, the missions are all about grinding without a pee break.

(4) Nonsensical plotline. Okay, the plot of Prophecies was kinda lame. But the Shiro plotline is even lamer. Leaving aside the glaring inconsistencies in the narrative, the way the narrative connects with the storyline missions is very superficial. Talk about anti-climax: Anet saved the easiest mission for last. The group I was in Tuesday killed Shiro in just 18 seconds.

To be fair: the Ritualist is an excellent profession. I guess it was worth the $50 just to be able to gain this profession.

Darakus · Aug 11, 2006, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paperfly

Okay then, I'm the vocal minority. I think Factions was a better game than Prophecies both on design principles and on gameplay experience... And I don't have any problems with accepting that I'm in a minority, but I'd be disappointed if the developers threw away the gameplay advances that were made in Factions.

Main case in point:

One of the most annoying things about Prophecies were all the large blocks of same-class mobs. Minotaurs, (most) devourers, all seven hundred million variants of that floating eye mesmer thingy. In Factions, they planned the groups carefully with a convincing mix of classes that made combat more interesting. And what happened? People complained that ANet did it to nerf farming!

Also, monster groups were designed with some genuinely subtle synergies and clever gameplans. Have you noticed the way Warden ranger-class mobs use Brambles and Lacerate to synergise with the KD hammer warriors? Or that Afflicted Monks' use of Retribution is there to add to the pressure-based combat style that the Afflicted Soul Explosions then drive home?

Not true, you are taking the monsters that had little to no intelligence in prophecies and thus were given a herd like behaviour by ANet to the very intelligent species of Factions which were accordingly given quite a bit more organisation.

If you are to compare sinergy then you have to compare Nagas, Tengus, Wardens, Outcasts and Afflicted with the Grawls, Charrs, Aviacaras, Stone Summit, White Mantle, Mursaats and Titans.

Devourers and Scarabs happen to have an insectlike synergy and are making group if you have to compare them you have to take the insectlike creatures in Factions (and they have about the same type of synergy too)

Other monsters like the Minotaurs, Imps, ... have herd like behaviour in Factions or Prophecies and you will most of the time find them in groups of identical classes the only thing Faction introduced on that side that was new we the herd like behaviour between creatures that had the same feeding habbits (Kirins co-grouping with Dragonmosses, fish species travellig together, ...)

On the other plusses of Factions :

- Ambushes were diversified : Dropping from ropes, uncloaking, getting out of bushes, ... on that side Prophecies only had the undigging yourself

- Fast paced pvp/pve settings were created and diversified (Jade Quarry, Fort Aspenwood and Alliance Battles) not all of them worked as expected but they still made for an interesting type of game play

- Areas with enough challenge to be in need of a well organised 12 man team (Deep and Urgoz)

- Diversified environment

- The ending sequence was a real ending.

On the minusses of Factions :

- Too many closed doors (I have nothing against finding the door closed but in this case it seriously hampered my enjoyment)

- Quite a small area to explore (if the grounds had been bigger the closed doors problem would have been less noticeable, in this case though it almost gave me claustrophoby)

- Badly conducted storyline, Shiro's motives are not clearly understood at the end, is he a madman was he possessed? Add to that the fact using emotes to have the characters act their part made for a feeling of amusement/consternation instead of drama and Faction's storyline rated well under that of Prophecies.

- Little to not convincing Faction war, it was the main sale argument and yet it failed to give the impression to players there was a war between factions (in Prophecies at least the player saw the summit attack the dwarves of deldrimor, the Charr's attack was a fact, going into Kryta one could see the undead attacking).

Alliance battle and fort aspenwood were almost the only two places were some sort of skirmish behaviour could be felt (lets not talk about the Jade Quarry) but even then the Alliance battle was one for control of specific spots rather than the confusing sense of a battlefield were all human laws have been forgotten (I'm not saying Alliance battle aren't fun to play, I'm just stating they don't give a feeling of a war going on between Luxons and Kurzicks). Add to this the town control system that creates an atmosphere were competition is internal to Factions and the fact that switching between Luxons or Kurzicks on an internal base is just a matter of having more faction on one side and you get a complete lack of strife except for some who like to spout comments

If you consider the fact Factions could have used the mercenary or aligned paths as possibilities, with the mercenary little to not trusted but hired for specific tasks and the aligned having an ability to spy on the other side to gain access to it and you could have had a dynamic game with battles using mercenaries as well as regular forces, spies going into ennemy territory, ... It could have been epic.

- Badly designed town control system were faction can be farmed extensively giving an advantage to numbers rather than having towns as a reward to the ones performing specific or hard tasks (alliance quests and tasks that would be completed for alliance rewards rather than individual quests and taks with a reward that could be given to the alliance thus giving rewards for synergy and skill rather than individual farming and size)

- Elite access system linked to town control which with the town control mechanism made for a rather special situation, happily enough the community came through by offering taxi services and ANet then had an event making it so that most people now have an opportunity for access but the initial situation was rather bad.

If you cumulate all of this you get as a result that while Factions is an enjoyable game it doesn't live up to what it could have been and is definitely not up to par with the gaming experience provided by Prophecies.

Even though some feature in Factions were new the lack of storyline created a lack of will to see the story through, playing through Factions even for the first time could be assimilated to a job rather than a discovery, it is only after the player had gone through that he could focus on gameplay and enjoy some of the new stuffs brought to him which lessened the deception but did not entirely erase it.

The fact is that Prophecies did stand up to the hype it had raised while Factions didn't (then again a bit more hype had been raised for Factions so it had a lot to stand up to).

Concerning Nightfall I definitely hope it will provide me with the kind of gaming experience Prophecies gave me because no kind of play system however innovative it might be will stand up to a proper storyline when you come through the game for the first time.

wren e · Aug 11, 2006, 10:25 AM // 10:25

To those complaining about that you could reach lvl 20 too quickly, you have to realize that Anet did that so most of the content in Factions would be suitable for lvl 20's so that those bring characters over from Prophecies would not feel that they where missing out on missions and content. The same will be true for any future chapters as well. And really, who cares about the level anyways, its about the skills on your bar and how you use them.

-Loki- · Aug 11, 2006, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

The worst was having to to unlock the Skyway before I could get Flesh Golem. Made even more annoying by having to wait for a decent Tyrian team in the first mission.

You were wating for a decent Tyrian team? Where were the decent Canthan teams when we were entering time after time getting either teams with no monks, not even henchman monks, so Togo died before we got anywhere close, or no Canthan team at all.

WasAGuest · Aug 11, 2006, 12:59 PM // 12:59

It always funny to me seeing others say another person's opinion is wrong. There is no wrong opinion just as there is no right opinion. That's kinda what makes it an opinion. If there was a right and wrong, then someone saying that all GW PvP sucks is right and anyone who disagrees is wrong. Same goes the opposite. It's opinion.
The original question is rather loaded though; will Nightfall be better than Factions? How will it be better or worse will depend on the opinion of each player.
My opinion is that Factions is pretty fun but not nearly as long lasting or fun as Proph is. I loved Factions boss mobs as they were a nice challenge and having finally played in the elite missions, I gotta say those were a blast though a little too long. Factions just didn't have enough quality content in the PvE side to keep me entertained in the same way as Proph did.
Paperfly mentioned the mob groups being better in Factions. I actually disagree with him on this. Each mob group felt as if I were fighting a group of mobs that just sat in town doing the whole "glf X" before they left. It forced the same old "see healer spike healer" type of game play over and over again. Became very boring after a while. The huge groups of minotaurs being the same mobs over and over made since. They are a "stupid" minotaur, not a player group.
However, that all said, I imagine Nightfall will be considerably different than the previous two. Jeff Strain said each chapter will have a unique game mechanic to it, and I find that refreshing and look forward to it.

PS. forgive all spelling and grammar goofs, I'm still on my fist cup of coffee.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Aug 11, 2006, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Opinions arent wrong or right but I see a lot of opinions here that are based on not having all the facts or just plain not thinking at all.

A lot of you are complaining about leveling to 20 is too fast. And despite so many people pointing out that level 20 content HAS to be the bulk of the chapters because of level 20 characters being imported from previous chapters, people still dont understand why leveling is so fast.

If getting to level 20 took over half the game, then people who imported their level 20s will have lost half of the content unless they want to fight level 1-19 monsters for half the game. Whereas leveling to 20 really fast loses you no content. And just what does it matter what level you are as long as the content is still challenging?

Seriously stop getting so hung up on the numbers and think about why things are the way they are.

Lady of pink light · Aug 11, 2006, 01:18 PM // 13:18

About the actual new profetions devish and paragon over assasin ans ritualist i personly think the dervish is way powerfull i meen if you took one to proficys it would own the health and energy atrib if done right meens you dont die and all to the shere enchntments and renchantment keeps you alive with no help of monk but with monk its just silly buisness so i think nightfall characters own factions what does everyone els think on this??

gene terrodon · Aug 11, 2006, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by wren e

To those complaining about that you could reach lvl 20 too quickly, you have to realize that Anet did that so most of the content in Factions would be suitable for lvl 20's so that those bring characters over from Prophecies would not feel that they where missing out on missions and content. The same will be true for any future chapters as well. And really, who cares about the level anyways, its about the skills on your bar and how you use them.

I agree withyour assessment, but also agree with the original gripe.
There is nothing worse than a level 20 whatever who has no idea what they are doing. If Anet is going to sell the game as a complete standalone and add-on, they should make the beginning of each more involved and then let the meat of the quest start when all characters can access the area. \My suggestion would be doing misiions and quests that give you an extensive background of the new continent. That's a win-win in my opinion. This will give time for those who only own the one chapter to learn the game and also keep a value for those vets out there that are using new classes.
Both can stand to learn a little, rookies how to play the game and vets how to use the new classes effectively.

AND PLEASE BRING BACK SKILL QUESTS.

gene terrodon · Aug 11, 2006, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady of pink light

About the actual new profetions devish and paragon over assasin ans ritualist i personly think the dervish is way powerfull i meen if you took one to proficys it would own the health and energy atrib if done right meens you dont die and all to the shere enchntments and renchantment keeps you alive with no help of monk but with monk its just silly buisness so i think nightfall characters own factions what does everyone els think on this??

70AL - High Damage Spike w/Interupts (Mesmers will pwn) = Dead Dervishes

Snowman · Aug 11, 2006, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Factions introduced Alliances, possibly the best thing Guildwars has ever introduced.. it means that far more people cooperate together.

Alliance Battles.. still cant get enough of them, brillant fun, earning balthazaar, faction and gold (if you convert obviously)

The armors in factions.. amazing, the weapons.. fantastic!..

Challenge missions, PvE Missions with 16 players.. Elite missions.. Faction battle (fort aspen)..

not to mention the awesome assasin, and imporatant ritualist.. two classes which have found great use in pvp and pve..

Factions was quite simply awesome, I RARLY go back to Tyria, only to get the titles.. TBH, Factions is going to be pretty tough to beat.. but im confident after factions that it will be just as good

Yea, they may make the story line a bit longer to please the PvE'ers.

easyg · Aug 11, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Well, there's a lot less content in Factions. That's just a fact.

The main storyline is 12 missions. The bonus missions are just the regular missions done faster. There are about 10 linking quests connecting the missions.

You can easily complete this in a few days. My first time thru, I was surprised to see that just by doing the 12 missions and linking quests I'd uncovered about 60 percent of the game map (actually, it was 56 percent or something like that).

Prophecies was a lot bigger. There were twice as many storyline missions and unique bonus missions for each one. You could do all of them and still have only 25-30 percent of the game map explored.

The game was also more polished. There were more choices of hairstyle, facial features, etc. Each profession had a unique body model.

Factions doesn't have as much depth or variety as Prophecies.

Even the number of faces and hairstyles is less. And female ritualist body recycles the elementalist body model. There are a lot of bugs and glitches. The game felt rushed and small.

icedragon981 · Aug 11, 2006, 06:15 PM // 18:15

I agree that prophecies was A LOT better than factions in many aspects and I hope that Nightfall is better.

audioaxes · Aug 11, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

heh its not even out yet but i will speculate that this one seems kinda rushed so i wouldnt be surprised if its even worse

[email protected] · Aug 11, 2006, 07:06 PM // 19:06

I agree with much of you guys/gals stated. There are good point with factions: Ritualist, Ambushes, Mob Group Variety. There are good points on Prophecy: More sensible storyline, mission/bonus requiring more tactics than brute force rush, better leveling curve, quests.

Some mention the Nightfall PVE weekend will answer these but I was on Factions PVE weekend and it didn't help me at all. The reason I got factions is because most of my guild bought it.

I hope Nightfalls will bring the best of Prophecy and Factions together plus some more. But if it does not improve from Faction, I hope players let Anet know by not purchasing Nightfalls. So they will know to make better products in the future. Do I need to remind everyone of the Everquest's about 11 expansions?

CoopaTroopa · Aug 11, 2006, 07:49 PM // 19:49

I don't think that factions was necessarily a bad game... but I don't think it was nearly as good as Prophecies was. It took me over a month to beat the Prophecies campaign (that was my first char with no runs), and it took me 2 days to beat the Factions campaign. The map is a lot smaller, check the file size of the completed maps if you don't believe me. I personally loved the idea of having the option of being run places, but without it in Cantha, I find playing through the campain with more than one character to be a chore. The storyline was pretty terrible... not saying that Prophecies' was great, but it was much better than Factions' storyline. The timed missions I thought were stupid. It didn't add anything to the game, and I think the lack of interesting bonuses showed a major lack of creativity on their part. The new professions were creative and well designed, but if you think about it, the Ritual Lord build is the only real build of either of the new professions that gets a lot of playing time in high level PvE or PvP.

There are, however, several improvements that were made in factions. The crafters and collectors that can make max items for cheap were a very welcome addition. I loved the idea of the end of game items. They actually gave some incentive to finish the game, whereas Prophecies didn't really have that. The mobs were better designed, with more synergy between their skills. The huge number of new greens added were also a good idea, at least I thought. Also, the increased difficulty of the Canthan bosses was a very good idea, it added some much-needed challenge to PvE. The elite missions are nice too. My favorite part, though, was the more rewarding quests. In Tyria, you could farm WAY more exp in the time it took to do a quest, and I'm glad that they made the assorted quests worth doing.

While these things were nice, all-round I think that Prophecies was definitely the better game. Although, I doubt any of the next expansions will be as content-rich as prophecies was, just because the developers spent so much more time on it. I hope that Nightfall will have a slightly better storyline, missions with less linear paths and more creative bonuses, few or no timed missions, the ability to be run to more places and skip missions, quests that offer high exp rewards and quests that have skills as rewards, some kind of end-of-game reward, and professions that will truly shake up the metagame. Seeing the creativity of the new professions, and knowing that the original Prophecies team has been working on it and has received feedback from factions, I'm very much anticipating Nightfall.

dargon · Aug 11, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioaxes

heh its not even out yet but i will speculate that this one seems kinda rushed so i wouldnt be surprised if its even worse

It's had the same amount of dev time as factions, 1 year. Nightfall was started shortly after Sorrows Furnace came to be.

Chillin-N-Killin · Aug 11, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

nightfall screen shots

http://www.1up.com/do/slideshow?page...&cId=315096 0

easyg · Aug 11, 2006, 09:16 PM // 21:16

One thing that bugs me about Nightfall already is that the female Dervish recycles the female elementalist body model again. It was bad enuf when Anet recycled it for the Rit.

But sheesh. Just one small example of how unique content will probably be less and less with each release.

Reza · Aug 11, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

not to mention the awesome assasin, and imporatant ritualist..two classes which have found great use in pvp and pve...

are u talking about assassins? when did they find a great use for assassins in PVP?

majoho · Aug 12, 2006, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Dei

Vocal Minority = Myth. A load of phooey made up by people who can't possibly defend their positions.

Both sides can say whatever they want no one can prove the other wrong anyway.

But I'm believe there is a "vocal minority", how you come to think of it as a myth beats me.