Curse

Demesis · Aug 13, 2006, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken

Doesn't Jade Quarry also give a smaller faction reward or something of the sort?

No, it was update a long time ago. Now both maps gives equal amounts of faction.

So here's the question for everyone else, if these morons here say Aspenwood is so balanced, then why the hell aern't people going to Jade Quarry? It's painfully obvious that the Jade Quarry map is more balanced than a monkey on a unicycle.

Look at it! The Juggernauts also have Carrier's Defense! Carrier's f*cking Defense!

Shendaar · Aug 13, 2006, 07:54 AM // 07:54

I think Fort Aspenwood is easier on the Luxon side. Much easier actually.

The Luxon warriors are much more dangerous than the kurzicks npcs and the Turtles can pack an enormous amount of damage. The kurzicks npc would be decent if they couldn't be picked off so easily from a distance, they are only really a threat to warriors and assassins. The luxon warriors AI also have them do the exact same thing almost all the time, which makes them incredibly effective at spiking down a target.

The Juggernaut on the other hand is just a joke, sure he can kill a turtle easily, but thats only if he can ever get to the turtle in the first place. He walks painfully slow and it is very easy to body block him. You pretty much need a monk to babysit him all the time if you even want him to do something productive like dealing damage.

EoE is completely devastating for the kurzicks and there isn't really anything you can do about it beside interupting the ranger doing it, but locating the ranger spawning it can be very difficult in a chaotic battle.

I consider Bonders to be a joke, because any decent mesmer, necro or hell even an ele should be able to pressure a bonder into submission. I have yet to encounter a bonder that could withstand any of my caster builds for more than 20 seconds. Bonders are only good against a clueless team or an unfortunate one that got no caster capable of striking through walls.

With that said, I don't really care that it isn't perfectly fair. It makes it more interesting I guess.

ogami_ito · Aug 13, 2006, 10:21 AM // 10:21

I have just started playing aspenwood as a Luxon. While I played as a Kurzik, I think I won maybe 50% of the time. Difficult to tell because it usually goes in streaks. As a Luxon, I think I won about 3/4ths of the games. I know these two stats don't match up (2/4 +3/4 >1). Maybe because of my effort my side wins more often. I think that is a reasonable assumption, because I figure if I'm not in the match, there is a higher than average chance that a dropper or faction leacher will be there in my place. Especially on the Kurzik side.

My feeling on this is that the mission is more difficult for the Kurziks, but the battle is easier for Kurziks to win. Meaning, if there were no droppers and leachers on either side, and both sides have an idea about what to do and started the match with an optimal mix of classes, the Kurziks would win more often. I say this because shutting down Luxon side does not seem that hard. Two monks on either side, but have them communicate with each other so that they can double-team either side. The Luxons have to come through choke-points and that gives the Kurziks big advantages. It is difficult to stop good Kurzik amber runners, but the Luxons can slow the Kurziks down by taking mines, but then the turtles are more vulnerable and mines are easily recaptured.

I don’t know about this ubber Ritualist EoE take-down build. But if they were organized, EoE is very easy to kill off with a Rt/A (or any A/Rt) using Consume Soul and Spirit Walk. I have never seen anyone do this, but it would work as the ultimate counter to any spirit-based attack.

I think an ideal Kurzik team would have
2 prot monks to guard gates
1 A/Rt with Consume Soul and Spirit Walk to shut down enemy Rt spirit strategies and support
1 warriors with sprint, and charge for dedicated running
1 W/N with Verata’s Aura to annihilate enemy MM attacks and general support
2 Rangers with barrage and an interrupt skill, and a defense skill and dodge. These serve as runners and turtle-interuptors
1 of any other class not mentioned above to add needed diversity. Probably an Elementalist who can help retake mines.

I think this would win over most good Luxon teams. The problem is…its all random. And because the teams are random, the Kurziks don’t usually get a good mix of toons. This gives the attacking Luxons a significant advantage just because all the Luxons really have to do against an average Kurzik team is support the turtles and occasionally take back the mines.

Silver_Fang · Aug 13, 2006, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogami_ito

I have just started playing aspenwood as a Luxon. While I played as a Kurzik, I think I won maybe 50% of the time. Difficult to tell because it usually goes in streaks. As a Luxon, I think I won about 3/4ths of the games. I know these two stats don't match up (2/4 +3/4 >1). Maybe because of my effort my side wins more often. I think that is a reasonable assumption, because I figure if I'm not in the match, there is a higher than average chance that a dropper or faction leacher will be there in my place. Especially on the Kurzik side.

My feeling on this is that the mission is more difficult for the Kurziks, but the battle is easier for Kurziks to win. Meaning, if there were no droppers and leachers on either side, and both sides have an idea about what to do and started the match with an optimal mix of classes, the Kurziks would win more often. I say this because shutting down Luxon side does not seem that hard. Two monks on either side, but have them communicate with each other so that they can double-team either side. The Luxons have to come through choke-points and that gives the Kurziks big advantages. It is difficult to stop good Kurzik amber runners, but the Luxons can slow the Kurziks down by taking mines, but then the turtles are more vulnerable and mines are easily recaptured.

I don’t know about this ubber Ritualist EoE take-down build. But if they were organized, EoE is very easy to kill off with a Rt/A (or any A/Rt) using Consume Soul and Spirit Walk. I have never seen anyone do this, but it would work as the ultimate counter to any spirit-based attack.

I think an ideal Kurzik team would have
2 prot monks to guard gates
1 A/Rt with Consume Soul and Spirit Walk to shut down enemy Rt spirit strategies and support
1 warriors with sprint, and charge for dedicated running
1 W/N with Verata’s Aura to annihilate enemy MM attacks and general support
2 Rangers with barrage and an interrupt skill, and a defense skill and dodge. These serve as runners and turtle-interuptors
1 of any other class not mentioned above to add needed diversity. Probably an Elementalist who can help retake mines.

I think this would win over most good Luxon teams. The problem is…its all random. And because the teams are random, the Kurziks don’t usually get a good mix of toons. This gives the attacking Luxons a significant advantage just because all the Luxons really have to do against an average Kurzik team is support the turtles and occasionally take back the mines.

Actually, it takes only 1 Necromancer with WoP to kill a gate with bonder. In terupter for turtle is not gonna work, i am a Rt/R, i often fill the role of interupter + emergency healer at green gate. Any decent Assasin can Climb the wall and distract the interupter. You only need to distract the interupter for a short period. Mesmer can be a good Bonder killer as well as Juggie killer and the runner killer.

Locating the EoE in the battle is hard, and when you finally locate the spirit, you are dead because of the EoE and Luxon warrior spike. I killed many EoE, but killing it does nothing, because the Ranger can plant another EoE, thats why ritual lord EoE is good, they can plant EoE every 15-20 sec. Ranger got skill to quicken the recharge time for EoE as well. The only way is to interupt them.

You are right, only 1 elementalist is able to capture the mine, but the same goes for luxon side as well.

Cymmina · Aug 13, 2006, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

The Kurzick side actually has an advantage over the Luxons in Jade Quarry, because the quarries are positioned closer to the Kurzick starting positions. Unfortunately, the Jade Quarry is also much further from House Zu Heltzer than Fort Aspenwood is from Cavalon, and the Jade Sea is much easier to run than the Echovald Forest, so very few Kurzicks actually make it to Jade Quarry, and even fewer stay after completing the primary quest. Coupled with the fact that Jade Quarry is a coin toss where Fort Aspenwood can be skewed, Jade Quarry is chronically underpopulated on the Kurzick side, and the lack of battles turns even more people away.

Unlike you, I've played extensively on both sides. There is no "closer", the quarry locations are exactly equidistant for each team (which you would know if you used your map). There's 1 close quarry, one quarry that's average, and one far quarry. Both teams share the average one.

Also, the run to Quarry is not that hard, compared to running to any other area in the forest. You end up half way there anyway doing the art supplies quest, the rest of the way can be made without fighting at all.

Whenever I play (which is often), the shortage is almost always on the Luxon side. Kurzicks prefer to play Quarry because the map is fair.

Electric Sky · Aug 13, 2006, 02:11 PM // 14:11

i think the fort aspenwood is more fun to play and a lot easier than the jade quarry :P

Shyft the Pyro · Aug 13, 2006, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymmina

Unlike you, I've played extensively on both sides. There is no "closer", the quarry locations are exactly equidistant for each team (which you would know if you used your map). There's 1 close quarry, one quarry that's average, and one far quarry. Both teams share the average one.

First off, do not assume anything about anyone on the internet. I've played both sides of Jade Quarry extensively as well, because unlike the "mapping leavers" I actually wanted to participate while getting my map uncovered. Afterwards, I came back because I found Jade Quarry fun and kept playing the arena. Please do not put degrading comments into your posts.

Second, the quarries may be equidistant from the bases, but the teleporter locations are not. In my experience, Kurzick teleporters deposit players closer to far quarries than the Luxon ones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymmina

Also, the run to Quarry is not that hard, compared to running to any other area in the forest. You end up half way there anyway doing the art supplies quest, the rest of the way can be made without fighting at all.

We're talking about the run from House Zu Heltzer to Jade Quarry here. Art Supplies is a quest that terminates in the NW corner of Melandru's Hope. The Supplymaster quest starts just outside House Zu Heltzer and ends just outside Lutgartis Conservatory. While the supply quest may indeed be runnable (as many faction farmers can attest), it is by no means as easy to run from House Zu Heltzer to Lutgartis Conservatory as it is to run from Cavalon to Breaker Hollow. On the Luxon side, all you have to deal with is Syphon Speed from the Creeping Carps and the occasional Scorpion Wire from the Oni. On the Kurzick side, Crippling Anguish and traps are sure to put more of a dent in the runner.

Jade Quarry is much farther from House Zu Heltzer because you have to first traverse Ferndale diagonally SE and then Melandru's Hope diagonally NE. Additionally, the few people who do make it to Lutgartis Conservatory often choose to stay there, farming the scouting quest just outside instead of continuing to Jade Quarry. Getting to Jade Quarry requires a lot more effort on the Kurzick side than on the Luxon side, which is why I still see people offering runs (and give them myself with my R/W) in Cavalon, but House Zu Heltzer never has anyone spamming "Running to Jade Quarry."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymmina

Whenever I play (which is often), the shortage is almost always on the Luxon side. Kurzicks prefer to play Quarry because the map is fair.

Do you play in the evenings, when Jade Quarry does see a population increase on the Kurzick side? During the day, Jade Quarry is a ghost town, and the Kurzick side never has more than about 3 players even if there is a full Luxon team waiting. The Luxon team never waits long, though, and always disbands to go back to Aspenwood.

Besides, it's much easier to get more people to come to Jade Quarry on the Luxon side. All you have to do is go to Fort Aspenwood and mention that Jade Quarry has a Kurzick team waiting, and you're guaranteed to have someone move over. The Kurzick characters don't have this freedom because Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry are much harder to reach on the Kurzick side, so people give up on reaching Jade Quarry once they already have Fort Aspenwood.

cjb909 · Aug 14, 2006, 04:43 AM // 04:43

People show up in the Quarry, and leave because there is never enough for a full team. If there was more of a permanent population in the Quarry, things would be better.

KamikazeChicken · Aug 14, 2006, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demesis

No, it was update a long time ago. Now both maps gives equal amounts of faction.

I was told differently a few days ago by people who'd somehow gotten in. I'm close to just spamming my alliance for 15 other people to form 2 Jade teams because I want my map uncovered.

xXa1 · Aug 14, 2006, 06:37 AM // 06:37

heres a list of matches at Jade Quarry:

maybe a.net should put some kind of quests/mission here instead? the server running this map must be frozen by now.

Nevin · Aug 14, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Kurzicks like to be cheap and bond the last elementalist gaurd...

prodigy ming · Aug 14, 2006, 07:33 AM // 07:33

and luxon likes to be cheap and use Eoe bombs

Terra Xin · Aug 14, 2006, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

Second, the quarries may be equidistant from the bases, but the teleporter locations are not. In my experience, Kurzick teleporters deposit players closer to far quarries than the Luxon ones.

Actually, no, the teleporters are equally distant... depending on how you look at it:

Kurzicks are closest to Purple as Luxons are equally closest to Green.
Yellow is equally distant from both Luxons and Kurzicks.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Image:JadeQuarry.jpg

Grab a ruler, locate where the teleporters destinate, and the distances are equal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

On the Luxon side, all you have to deal with is Syphon Speed from the Creeping Carps and the occasional Scorpion Wire from the Oni. On the Kurzick side, Crippling Anguish and traps are sure to put more of a dent in the runner.

^^, I can run to jade quarry with my Mesmer, but I agree with you, its loads harder to run there than it is running on the Luxon side. I'm trying to wonder why you can even run to Cavalon from Zos Shivros, but you can't do that from Altrumn Ruins to HzH... I haven't encountered Crippling Anguish, you can avoid those mantis thingies altogether if you know the run. I mean for the luxon side, you can easily run to Gyala from Zos Shivros including all stops (if you have done the required quests) and your only monster encounters are in Archipelagos.

As for the activity in Jade Quarry, its desertedness allows you to effectively set up PvE grade GvG matches in International District... that'll create problems,, but at least it'll be populated.

Reks · Aug 14, 2006, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Kurzicks like to be cheap and bond the last elementalist gaurd...

Somebody forgot their enchant strips.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prodigy ming

and luxon likes to be cheap and use Eoe bombs

Ugh. I still won't forget the times my team loses at 99% to a last-second EoE bomb.

Though both sides have their tricks and strategies, the true imbalance of Aspenwood is the time needed to win. A Kurzick team needs to wait out the full 20 minutes or so(which will seem like an eternity), while the Luxons can win in as quickly as five minutes. I suspect this is why Aspenwood sees much more play time than the Jade Quarry. Plus, there's that coolness factor. Which sounds more exciting: assaulting/defending a base, or... mining Jade?

Terra Xin · Aug 14, 2006, 12:00 PM // 12:00

That time could be reduced if more people ran amber, or if people started considering the green mine as a very good source of Amber!! 5% added to completion, how can you not want that?

(Amber, I meant amber)

Mithie · Aug 14, 2006, 12:46 PM // 12:46

The one gripe I have with Ft. Aspenwood is that people need to stop bringing PVE SOLO builds here expecting to own. Luxon wammo with triple parries, mending, HB, and no attack skill? GG ignored.

eternal pho · Aug 14, 2006, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Everytime I take a visit to Jade Quarry on any side, there's always a lack of players.

trf2374 · Aug 14, 2006, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reks

A Kurzick team needs to wait out the full 20 minutes or so(which will seem like an eternity), while the Luxons can win in as quickly as five minutes.

If memory serves me right, Jade Quarry has a time limit of 12 minutes, though I haven't been in any matches (the few that I have been in) that have gone past 8 minutes. I may be crazy, but this would be faster overall for both sides.

In your guestimation of 20 minutes, that's 20 minutes for both sides waiting for one to win. That's a long 20 minutes if you're on the losing side, and even if you're on the winning one. That's a good deal longer than the time limit for Quarry. I've won Quarry where it was 10-0, in some fairly quick time, like 4-5 minutes. Really, if there are teams for both sides, it is far faster than Aspenwood.

Since Quarry normally plays faster, you get in more matches in less time equalling more faction. Yet people are lemmings and still flock to Aspenwood.

beanerman_99 · Aug 14, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51

I like how some here say that the Kurzicks play defense while Luxons are offensive at the Fort. While this is generally true, when I play on the Kurzick side I like for our team to be more offensive than just hiding behind the gates and having 2 people trying to run amber. Most of the times I have won on the Kurzick side the team does the following:

a) have 1 or 2 people try to kill their commanders. No commander=no Luxon reinforcements. When Luxons see their precious turtle factories are out of commission they will send people to take them back. That equals fewer Luxons inside the base fighting.

b) For god's sakes protect and keep the amber mines outside the gates. Why is it 90% of the time the Kurzick team is completely ok with giving these up to the Luxons? This is insane. Why give the Luxons such a close rez shrine? You kill them inside the fort and they are back inside and in your face in about 5 seconds.

c) Take out those frickin NPC warriors 4man killing squads. I can't stand it when NO ONE targets them to get rid of them. Those 4 warriors (8 if both teams made it in) will do MORE total destruction to your team than ALL the real players will. So do yourself a favor and kill them ASAP. Take out the turtles if you can, although they are usually being protected by a monk....which brings up another point.

d) Take out ANY monk players first. They are there for one reason; to protect the turtles. One person harass the monk away while the others attack and destroy the turtle. AND if you had someone out taking down the commanders....NO MORE TURTLES.

e) If you see an EoE spirit, FFS take it out!

If the Kurzicks do these simple things (plus run amber) you will have a better chance of winning. I just can't stand when a team huddles inside waiting for their imminent demise.

That said....I wish more people played the quarry but I really don't know how to change this unless the faction reward is increased. And when Nightfall comes out and most of the player population migrates there, well what will be the point in faction anyway?