Curse

Xenrath · Aug 13, 2006, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Runners do not "ruin the game" it was in fact a design element, at least for Prophecies. The Droknar run, for example, I'm pretty sure was designed specifically for that purpose.

Rubbish players will always get along in the game anyway, just being carried by the groups they're in if nothing else.

I'd like to suggest, those who like artificial roadblocks forcing you to do some things over and over again - please contact me in game if this happens in Nightfall, so they can do various same quests/missions over and over again for me, for like 8+ characters or whatever it will be. Because you know, that's really fun.

WasAGuest · Aug 13, 2006, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Personally, I don't like being run anywhere. I prefer to "get there" on my own. Part of the fun IMO. I see the use of ferries the same as running, only they are free and there is still no perm way to access the elite missions to other wise earn my own way in...

That said, the Factions locked gates completely destroy the illusion of a game world. I can't wander off and explore or enjoy my in game time the way I find fun. I can't start in KC and meander towards HzH which means to me all Kurzick NPCs are actually "heroes" and had to battle thier way to HzH? See, even thinking about it or trying to rationalize the locked gates further destroys the illusion.

The locked gates were a sad way of trying to make the serious lack of content in Factions seem longer, when in reality it only showed how little content there was and made what there was annoying as it was in the way of enjoyment.

I don't see how runners have actually ruined the game though. Maybe because I refuse to do the whole PuG thing anymore, or just because I turn off all the chat channels other than guild, team and alliance.

If Nightfall has more of these restrictions I will be very dispointed.

Horseman Of War · Aug 13, 2006, 01:35 PM // 13:35

i think the thing to keep in mind is that each chapter will have a somewhat different feel to it.

GW1 kind of set the stage, bringing Shoulds and Shouldnts for the next games...

One of the biggest complaints in the old game was skill aquisition and levelling... so cantha comes thru and gives you tons more skills, tons of skill points, and tons of money, (quick levelling for decreased grind also)

Also, Factions is more based on PvP- the big selling point for its marketing.

GW1 was designed by both of the "teams".

GW3 Is going to be focused on single player/rpg/etc with the focus on custom henchies (and yes Im still very intrigued by this)

Its important to keep in mind that while no one chapter is going to be perfect, each one will cater to a slightly different aspect of the community.. allowing ANet to explore the 'what if' for other ways of presenting their game.

I think NightFall, by itself, will probably be the coolest one yet... although the original guild wars itself is a glorious monstrosity, and factions is a very fun addition.

Nightfall might be so good, that standalone, itll be an excellent source of new players- if goes well, it could topple WoW. Yes, I said it.

Stockholm · Aug 13, 2006, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Take away the roadblocks, but make it so you can't do mission #3 if you diden't do #2 and so forth, then you can still explore and fight all you want, but not finish the game by jumping over the missions.

TGgold · Aug 13, 2006, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

Take away the roadblocks, but make it so you can't do mission #3 if you diden't do #2 and so forth, then you can still explore and fight all you want, but not finish the game by jumping over the missions.

I was just about to say this. I think that the entire MAP should be accessable, but not do-able. It makes no sense to get to a town and have to need a certain quest done to get to it, unless there's a VERY good stroy-based reason. (ie: Eternal Grove, Raisu Palace, etc). I mean, come on.

I explored a lot of the map with henchies, and always got annoyed when I woud find somewhere, only for it to be locked. I mean, it's stupid. I fought my way to there...only to need to do it again later >_> I'm pretty sure that's grind.

CleverLoginName · Aug 13, 2006, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koolman

Runners ruin the game, I hope they map is just like the Cantha map where you have to actually do quests to get places.

How exactly do runners ruin the game? Doing the same missions with five different characters ruins the game for me, it stops being fun.

Jeremy Untouchable · Aug 13, 2006, 04:55 PM // 16:55

i bought 2 copys of guildwars 1, 2 copys of factions, i will buy one copy of nightfall, see if there is locked doors, if so i will NOT purchase a second copy. factions preveiw they sent us striaght to house zu heltzer, i did find a locked door, thought it was just on the preveiw weekend, WRONG locked doors eveywhere, realy truly sucks

Rent · Aug 13, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Locked gates were by far the absolute best feature of Factions.

That being said, I never, ever hit a gate I could not pass through, so I don't really understand the problem.

gamecube187 · Aug 13, 2006, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by storm of daeth

im almost 100% sure it isnt a limited world since nightfall is made by the same guys who made prophecies not the stupid guys that made factions

Accually, both teams made prophecies, and then one started on factions, and the other went to nightfall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hidden in the Mist

Three different teams I believe.

Ya, I'm pretty sure there is also a event team that is a lot smaller than the other two and not as much heard about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koolman

Runners ruin the game, I hope they map is just like the Cantha map where you have to actually do quests to get places.

Ya, the runners completely ruined parts of prophecies. I really hope that nightfall isn't as limiting as factions, so you can accually explore, but you still have to do the quests to get farther in the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffyx

Having to do the same retarded missions over and over when I've done them 12 times ruins the game. Especially with classes like my assassin and mesmer wheres the fun when I can't even get past the mission when I've done it plenty of times and I'm stuck until a guildie can help me. Sorry but the closed door idea was the lamest idea ever. I can understand having them in certain parts but why should I have to do a quest to explore an area?

Ya, it might ruin the game a little, but runners that skip everything between kryta and the desert. and between ascalon to beacons, and make it almost impossible to do those missions ruin it more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenrath

Runners do not "ruin the game" it was in fact a design element, at least for Prophecies. The Droknar run, for example, I'm pretty sure was designed specifically for that purpose.

Accually, it wasn't a design element, or at least not meant to be. I'm almost 100% positive the creators just wanted to make the world as real as possible and so they connected things here and there, but didn't realize players would take advantage of it by running people from a low level area to the first place where you can buy max level armor. Same with getting run just about everywhere else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

Take away the roadblocks, but make it so you can't do mission #3 if you diden't do #2 and so forth, then you can still explore and fight all you want, but not finish the game by jumping over the missions.

Oh, I just came up with the perfect idea thanks to you!

How to fix this is the missions and the towns they bring you to are the only things blocked off by gates. In order to get into the mission area, you need to have a quest and then it teleports only that person that talked to the npc to the mission town. That way people without the quest can't get in. And the only way to get to the town that the mission leads you do is by beating the misison. In the town the mission brings you to is a npc that gives you the primary quest that will lead you to the next misison.

And then, make a island where you have to beat the missions to get off it. And as soon as you do get off, you can buy the 1.5k armor (just like factions).

If Arena Net does this, then people won't be able to get the 1.5k armor earlier than they are meant to, and people won't be able to get to mission #2 without mission #1 being done first, and they can't get to misison #3 without misison #2 being done first, and so on. Then there will be mini-uniportant towns that can lead you to big ones (like nightfall's Cavilion, or Droks), but it won't help you other than being able to explore freely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rent

Locked gates were by far the absolute best feature of Factions.

That being said, I never, ever hit a gate I could not pass through, so I don't really understand the problem.

I liked the idea, and it was one of the best things of factions, but what many people don't like is the fact that they can't explore from kainenge to cavilion, without even touching the primary quests. It really takes away from the feel of cantha being a real world instead of just some random areas of a game.

Prophecies did feel like a real world, because you could explore from ascalon to droks (if you were high enough leveled) without having to do the missions or anything, but then the problem was that people took advantage of that and completely skipped missions and stuff and sorta ruined it for people comming into the game latter.

Stockholm · Aug 13, 2006, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamecube187

Oh, I just came up with the perfect idea thanks to you!

How to fix this is the missions and the towns they bring you to are the only things blocked off by gates. In order to get into the mission area, you need to have a quest and then it teleports only that person that talked to the npc to the mission town. That way people without the quest can't get in. And the only way to get to the town that the mission leads you do is by beating the misison. In the town the mission brings you to is a npc that gives you the primary quest that will lead you to the next misison.

And then, make a island where you have to beat the missions to get off it. And as soon as you do get off, you can buy the 1.5k armor (just like factions).

If Arena Net does this, then people won't be able to get the 1.5k armor earlier than they are meant to, and people won't be able to get to mission #2 without mission #1 being done first, and they can't get to misison #3 without misison #2 being done first, and so on. Then there will be mini-uniportant towns that can lead you to big ones (like nightfall's Cavilion, or Droks), but it won't help you other than being able to explore freely.

Just have a NPC that you have to talk too to get in to the mission( like UW or FoW) and if you haven't done the previous mission He/She will not let you in. Much easier (and will make it harder on Bot's).

Nevin · Aug 13, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

You guys misunderstand... Both of them worked on Prophecies. THEN they split..

Rera · Aug 13, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06

I honestly don't understand how runners ruin the game. I'm not trying to be snide or anything - I really don't see it. If you want to play through the game at normal pace, you can do that. If you'd prefer to skip to the late game content, pay for a run. It seems like a win-win for everyone involved, including the runners that make the bucks.

Stockholm · Aug 13, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

I honestly don't understand how runners ruin the game. I'm not trying to be snide or anything - I really don't see it. If you want to play through the game at normal pace, you can do that. If you'd prefer to skip to the late game content, pay for a run. It seems like a win-win for everyone involved, including the runners that make the bucks.

They problem is that you get ppl in pug's that don't have the skill's they should have at that point in the game, because the got run past part off the game. If it is a player with experiance he/she knows what skills to pick up, but the new players that just want to get to the high lvl areas without learning how to play the game, ruin the gaming experiance for the rest of us.

TiNkLeR · Aug 13, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamecube187

Accually, both teams made prophecies, and then one started on factions, and the other went to nightfall.

Just came here to say ur wrong, and jeff strain and gaile sayed many times, When GuildWars were being made, factions team were writting stuff for the new chapter , and story, etc.

So, its separatte.. One is Prophecies, other is factions.

phillip · Aug 13, 2006, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koolman

Runners ruin the game, I hope they map is just like the Cantha map where you have to actually do quests to get places.

yep u can thank the runners for the limited world beacuse anet got tired of letting ppl get ran from ascalon to the forge i know i hate it when i see a lvl 5 with 15k armor or when i get called a noob buy a guy with only 33% of the map and i have 80% of tyria and 65% of canthea beacuse he got ran every where

plus they mess up the ecomany beacuse they req a power lvler and that makes the 55 monk build more popular and that means more 55's farming and doing power lvls and it keeps going to where there are so many ppl farming the gold drops turn into garbage for the most part and also they are mostly unexperinced and sometimes dont even know how to trade properly and the basic tattics of playing as a certin player beacuse they never realy used it they just stood there and got ran

sorry for the big speech but i just hate runners and bot farmers (fyi i could be a runner but i chose not to so pleasse dont send the "your just mad beacuse u can run ppl" response)

Dante the Warlord · Aug 13, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

actually i doubt that factions was shorter because of the teams making it. I really think it was shorter becuase they got rushed into making it for guild wars sucess.. although gameplay is another story. If this is true with Nightfall...we should get the same length ... but different gameplay.

Rera · Aug 13, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

They problem is that you get ppl in pug's that don't have the skill's they should have at that point in the game, because the got run past part off the game. If it is a player with experiance he/she knows what skills to pick up, but the new players that just want to get to the high lvl areas without learning how to play the game, ruin the gaming experiance for the rest of us.

If you're talking about 'skills' as in equipped skills, this isn't really a valid complaint. First, there are no skill quests in Factions, so whether you're run somewhere or not doesn't impact whether you have access to certain skills. Second, even in Prophecies the primary quests beyond Pre-Searing didn't grant skills either. If anything, a player that has been run will be a better addition to the party, because they have access to *later game* skills and equipment. A lvl5 with elite skills and droks armor is a bit more powerful than a normal lvl5 with paper-thin armor and a handful of starting skills.

If you're talking about 'skills' as in player skill, I don't believe this is a valid argument either. Sure, in theory, being forced to play the game should make you a better player, but looking around in mission towns this clearly isn't the case. Factions could not be 'run' through, but Factions players are still generally terrible - to the point where you are much more likely to complete most missions and quests with henchmen than with the typical PUG. Bad players are bad players because they don't think, and they don't learn. It doesn't matter if they play through every area of the game, or if they get run through every area of the game, they're still going to suck horribly and screw up your group. At least if they've been run through the game they'll be bad players with max armor and elite skills.

Quote:

i know i hate it when i see a lvl 5 with 15k armor or when i get called a noob buy a guy with only 33% of the map and i have 80% of tyria and 65% of canthea beacuse he got ran every where

Why do you hate it when you see lvl5's with 15k armor? How is it any of your business what kind of armor they have, or how they got it? As for being called a 'noob', having map completion doesn't make you a good player. I don't care if you have both grandmaster cartographer titles, if you're a warrior with mending and healing breeze or a monk without energy management, I'd rather not play with you.

Tainek · Aug 13, 2006, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

Why do you hate it when you see lvl5's with 15k armor? How is it any of your business what kind of armor they have, or how they got it? As for being called a 'noob', having map completion doesn't make you a good player. I don't care if you have both grandmaster cartographer titles, if you're a warrior with mending and healing breeze or a monk without energy management, I'd rather not play with you.

QFT

my Guildie had 15K Glads at level One on his warrior, he's also one of the most talented players i have ever had the grace to play with

Amy Awien · Aug 14, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiggyFly

I understand Anets problem, because they probably didn't want Ascalon-to-Sanctum runs or Beacons-to-Droknars runs to be around

No, if they didn't want those runs, they'd have put gates somewhere in Lornar's Pass - or something else. You can still run from Beacon's to Droknar's, so ANet doesn't mind one bit about runners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rent

Locked gates were by far the absolute best feature of Factions.

Why? What was so great about them?

Quote:

That being said, I never, ever hit a gate I could not pass through, so I don't really understand the problem.

You are not making any sense, in one sentence you say the locked gates were the greatest feature of factions, in this one you say you never encountered them? But how can you say they were such a great feature if you've never encountered them?

And if you've never encountered them, you're not much of a gamer. You only follow your questlog and the green star on your map without ever wondering what is in the rest of the area, or ging there?

Locked gates are a major annoyance. I liked exploring the game world - and the designers made some nice trails and sights now and then. The locked gates completely destroy that experience.

Silver_Fang · Aug 14, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

No, if they didn't want those runs, they'd have put gates somewhere in Lornar's Pass - or something else. You can still run from Beacon's to Droknar's, so ANet doesn't mind one bit about runners.

Why? What was so great about them?

You are not making any sense, in one sentence you say the locked gates were the greatest feature of factions, in this one you say you never encountered them? But how can you say they were such a great feature if you've never encountered them?

And if you've never encountered them, you're not much of a gamer. You only follow your questlog and the green star on your map without ever wondering what is in the rest of the area, or ging there?

Locked gates are a major annoyance. I liked exploring the game world - and the designers made some nice trails and sights now and then. The locked gates completely destroy that experience.

Locked gate have appeared in a lot of RPG, its not uncommon to have a locked gate to stop people from storyline progression.