Curse

Ensign · Aug 04, 2006, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

-Poor Energy Management; including lack of decent non-elite skills. 4 pips of regen can't possible handle an 80 E bar. Seriously only about 40 of that energy is really usable once you spend it on what? 2 spells?

Well, remember that eles do have the strongest elite emanagement skills in the game. It's just that those are the only valid options, and they cause exhaustion. So instead of EStorage being this decent attribute that gave you the flexibility to use good emanagement skills while still buffering some exhaustion, you have a situation where max energy and exhaustion are just tools to use to power your energy elite of choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

-Absolute Crap Armor and Defensive Options.

Eh? Eles have some of the best defensive options in the game, it's just that all of the PvP-viable ones are proactive - blind, knockdown, speed, snares, wards. Yeah their armor isn't all that impressive but there's more to defense than armor. People play eles as third monks a lot of the time and there's a reason for that.

Peace,
-CxE

Lordhelmos · Aug 05, 2006, 06:23 AM // 06:23

In reference to my arguement I apologize for not supporting the claim of eles having the worst defensive options. It was really more of a spinoff from my rant on the clunkiness of energy storge, which is one of my main arguements against the class.

In tournament play, the best builds I see an elementalists run are flashbot/healparty flagrunners and AS/EQ warders. EQ/AS can be very devastating and actually deal good damage to an IWAY team, which 1-2 earthquakes on the bar and glyph of energy it can easily be maintained and mantra of resolve can be used to stop interrupts. This is the most effective elementalist build I've found personally.

Ward of Melee and Foes are both quite powerful when an enemy team becomes ensared in them and can absorb alot of damage. Maybe with nightfall im thinking if one ele roles survives it will have to be the warder. No enchantments, large field benefits, and easy to maintain with the glyph. EQ/AS also gives some nice damage.

I will still stand by my arguement of Energy Storage being inefficient and the limited choice between dual attunes, the glyph, and ether prod as viable solutions that still choke on recharge time or exhaustion.

Because of the limitations of Estorage, it really seems that warding or heal party spam with blind or snare are all an elementalist can really do at this point. The damage and recharge times of other offensive skills are proven to be pretty sad.

To me being stuck with these two choices and not functioning well as the damage class it should be has caused me to lose interest in playing an elementalist. Warding really isnt my thing (although it is effective), and being a keep away heal party flag runner doesn't fit my fancy either.

I believe the ineffeciency of Estorage really cans this classes ability to tap into its true potential. Maybe this is a potential that is too good, which is why elementalists havent changed much past the AOE nerf. The high costs and large by prove to be a handful to maintain. Ironically, using an elite like Eprod still has nasty drawbacks which really reduce the effeciency in which you can manage your energy. The exhaustion and suicidal properties of the skill are an example.

Like I pointed out, without Eprod there is no real way to function better than a 40 E mesmer or monk using lower cost spells. The glyph's 15 second recharge is also way to slow as well.

My main arguement is with the recharge cycles that I pointed out with the 75 second meteor shower example.

-Long cast times are bad.
-Slow natural regen and wait times to use spells are bad.
-A large pool of energy with no effecient way to put anything about 40E into good use without breaking the barrel of your glass cannon is bad.
-High Costs are bad.
-Exhaustion is bad.
-Long recharge times are bad.
-The damage you get from experiencing all the above being worthless is bad.

There are just too many malicious dominating factors that underlie elementalist spellcasting to make the class perform effeciently. I think that some of these factors just need to be toned down a little.

Now lets look at some pros on an ele and see why an AS/EQ ele is effective:

-Large area of effect protection and snare that greatly benefits the party. This effect cannot be stripped or undone.
-No ward costs over 15e
-Wards cast quickly.
-Glyph of Energy allows continuous spellcasting with a minimum of 5 E every 15 seconds. With a ward duration of 16-20 seconds, the party defense can be upkept indefinitely.
-MoR protects the warder from interruptions.
-The excess energy not used to power wards due to the glyph or even the glyph itself can be applied to an earthquake spell that causes KD in a wide area. AS can be tacked on the end, and with a glyph the net cost of the entire combo is 15E with a recharge of 15 and a cast time of 3 and 3/4 seconds for aftershock. The damage dealt from this combo is very good and can cause widespread interruption in the enemy team. Now thats good and efficient nuking...
-The only drawback is the lack of a self heal, you will be reliant on a monk but in turn you provide the monk with continual protection from melee attacks, sometimes elemental attacks and KD. You also snare the enemies to allow effecient kiting.

The reason this build is good is because like a heal party spammer, it bypasses the problems of Estorage. The lasting power of wards to compensates for the 15 second cool down of the glyph.

-Problem of recharge times is solved.

The EQ/AS combo powered by the glyph and protected by MoR provides good area damage that can devastate an enemy party for a low cost of 15 and a recharge of 15. Which is not bad for 300+ earth damage and wide area KD.

-Cost and damage problem compensated and solved.

Even at lower levels of energy the glyph cast and fast casting of wards allows an effective defense to be placed even if the elementalist only has 5 energy and the glyph is recharged.

-Effeciency of the energy bar problem is solved and the fast action of wards bypass the normal 3-5 seconds of other ele skills. Also if EQ is used the mantra of resolve protects the user by putting excess energy to use to buffer against interrupts. For 15 energy, and a 3 seconds cast time 300+ dmg and KD is worth it.

EQ/AS warder is an illustration of how an elementalist SHOULD function. The problem with eles is their clunkiness in Estorage and limited possibilities in bypassing energy management problems through a choice of only 3 elites really narrows down what an elementalist can do effeciently. If some of these issues were resolved the elementalist would be a very effecient class and more possibilities would come around to put elementalists on the forefront of tournament level play. It would only take ONE very clever elite, skill or tweak to open this door, but because of the power illustrated in a build like the one above; I now see why Anet is very cautious in removing the cap on eles.

...In fact they haven't.

I would really like to see possibilities like the above one with different elements and skill sets. The problem with eles is they have been capped so hard by Estorage, the roles they can effeciently play have been severly limited to a very select few. Any tournament level gamer will tell you that going into a fight without one of those few builds is suicide as an ele.

In my opinion this constriction to a very select number of skills and roles is a problem with the balance of the game and balance of the class. Elementalists should be able to do MORE things effectively as a core class. Its because of the clunky design of that primary attribute that elementalists are forced to be played the way that they are. To me, with so many elemental spells and effects its a shame so few are really efficient in comparison to other classes and their jack of all trade abilities *cough ranger*.

In my opinion, elementalists have really been overnerf to a psuedo support class. Water magic, Wards, and Flashbotting is all an elementalist can really do with its primary class skills. As far as elites, Ele Attunement, Glyph of E, and Eprod are your only choices if you plan on surviving a long drawn battle. With so many elementalists skills its a shame nothing else can be put to good use without running into the clunky limits of Estorage.

This is not a rant as before, but a much more clear and concise arguement on the pros and cons regarding the mechanics that an elementalist is built on. From playing a ele since beta these are my personal conclusions regarding the class as a whole.

The solution to the problem I see is the rebuild the elementalist's energy management and cost issue in order to implement something a little more effecient but not unfair. With better energy management elementalists will still suffer from exhaustion and cast times but still be able to participate at the forefront of battle instead of stumbling out of the short bus like a fat kid with down syndrome after a few casts and a "pick your poison" set of energy management skills that hog an elite slot. This can be implemented by shortening the recharge or lessening the cost on a few key skills or adding some skills that give semi-effecient forms of energy conservation and management without having MASSIVE drawbacks that kill your effeciency as a whole.

Edit to Ensign:
also ensign, watching Guilia Crystalheart run an ele for iQ as and effectively blind wars while runing a great heal spam during the FoTM where the build first came out is what really made me want to play an ele. Playing an elementalist for while and using an EQ/AS build, flashbot/runner with heal party spam I know an elementalist has alot of potential in tournament plays. All this class needs in my opinion is a few clever energy maintainence skills that are fair but firm that will allow the ele to tap into a wider array of skills and add more diversity of the class. Elementalists don't suck, they are just choking with restrictions.

frojack · Aug 05, 2006, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Well Elementalists have issues. Enchantment hate, general incompetance... This is old news. If Anet did nothing before, I sincerly doubt they will turn things around now.
Plus a huge number of people still use them despite their weakness. I know I do. Simply because I have a fondness for my first character. She Brings back fond memories of when I began playing the game. If it weren't for decadent nostalgia, she would be as dead to me as my assassin.
I digress. The point is while many continue to play the elementalist, I can imagine Anet just saying "why fix something that seems in healthy circulation anyway?". Even if most are playing them out of mis-guided love and a hope that they will be 'fixed' one day.

Again, we shall all see how things turn out in the next chapter. A return to the warm fire and the dinner table, or a final push out into the cold abyss.

runeseeker1 · Aug 05, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Some eles never even use enchants, like me. Im an E/Mo, and I only use enchants like healing breeze, which don't seem to last long enough(or to waste energy on)to strip. Glyphs seem to be the only thing that keeps energy management for the ele safe, but Anet is going to have to buff the ele in terms of energy management or damage(or both XD)or the ele is dead as soon as nightfall hits the stores. Or maybe Anet will nerf the hell out of the dervish, so that they can't strip us naked of all our enchants like this.

Phades · Aug 05, 2006, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Well, remember that eles do have the strongest elite emanagement skills in the game. It's just that those are the only valid options, and they cause exhaustion. So instead of EStorage being this decent attribute that gave you the flexibility to use good emanagement skills while still buffering some exhaustion, you have a situation where max energy and exhaustion are just tools to use to power your energy elite of choice.

It still doesnt make sense to force a handicap in more than one place to make up for it with being forced to use only 1 eliete out of all the options in the game in order to have similar efficiency and time to recovery that other professions enjoy innately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

People play eles as third monks a lot of the time and there's a reason for that.

Still, if they allowed divine favor and divine boon to affect those "3rd monk" skills, i seriously doubt we would see elementalists being brought to field those skills.

Cynn Evennia · Aug 05, 2006, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by runeseeker1

Some eles never even use enchants, like me. Im an E/Mo, and I only use enchants like healing breeze, which don't seem to last long enough(or to waste energy on)to strip. Glyphs seem to be the only thing that keeps energy management for the ele safe, but Anet is going to have to buff the ele in terms of energy management or damage(or both XD)or the ele is dead as soon as nightfall hits the stores. Or maybe Anet will nerf the hell out of the dervish, so that they can't strip us naked of all our enchants like this.

Im intrigued, no enchants? Well in PvE attunements are the option (i run twin attunement sometimes btw) whereas in PvP Ether prodigy is a common call. Maybe you use glyph of energy and of lesser energy? That is 2 skills, elite included, instead of one single elite: Ether prodigy.

Maybe we should precise when do we mean PvP and when PvE. Personally im more PvE but sometimes i feel like doing AB and RA; not GvG,HoH nor TA though. So plz read me in terms of PvE.

Sientir · Aug 05, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

This thread has many points that I agree with.
Problems:
- Stupid long cast times and recharge times.
- Limited elite choice (you HAVE to bring e-management, unless you are running some wonky build for something).
- 4 pips regen do NOT support 70+ energy.
- Exhaustion on skills that don't need it (the Mind ***** skills come to mind).
- Really high energy costs for skills that don't need it.

I don't think damage is a problem (except in later stages of PvE. The AoE in the Necromancer's curses line is way more potent.) The problem is the frequency with which potent spells can be used.

Anyway, I recently made an ele, and my first char was an ele. I have found Air to be way more potent than fire, especially later in the game. However, I have to use dual enchants and use Aura as a cover to be able to cast. That's 3/8 of my bar right there. What would be nice would be some sort of elementalist varient of the monk's Spell Shield spell.

Oh, and Chilblains in the desert = pain. Why? because it strips two enchants now. Jade Scarabs would run up to me and BANG! there goes Aura and one of my attunements. Just like that. The recharge on the attunements is killer.

Additionally, elementalist's DoT AoE is just sad. Give Firestorm something like a 5 second recharge, then I might consider it a good spell. As it is, it is only good in Pre searing, where the enemies are still stupid enough to hang out in it. Searing Heat is a joke (25 energy just to warn your enemy that if they don't move, you get to burn 'em for a couple seconds? Give me flame trap please.), and Eruption suffers the same issue.

Additionally, some elites are just sad. Did you know that Lightning Surge DOESN'T have armor penetration? I didn't realize it until i did Dragon's Lair the other day, and my Lightning Orb was hitting for more damage. Seriously, increase the cost and recharge to 15, and you could make Lightning Surge a non-elite. It isn't like it isn't removed right away in RA (the only place it might be used in PvP, imo) by the energy needing monk with Inspired Hex.

Overall, there have been, in my views, a lot of good points made in this thread. Energy Storage doesn't help much, except for increasing duration of vital e-management elites. While I think bonus regen could help, it doesn't make sense to do it because such would be overpowering. I also don't think Eles need to do more damage, I think they need to be able to cast more. The only places I think eles should do more damage is later PvE areas, and that could be altered just by changing the enemies armor levels, which would be a lot easier than trying to fairly buff ele's damage from spells. Afterall, both aspects of this game have to be looked at. You can't just balance for one or the other (PvE or PvP). I do like the idea of the Attunements being linked to e-storage and scaling up with that, or just having a higher scale, and not stacking with Elemental Attunement. Sadly, that still leaves them vulnerable to shatters and enchant removal. What would be nice is if e-storage had a built in energy redeeming factor. Like, whenever you finish casting a spell, you get 2% back for each point in it. Afterall, necros gain energy when stuff dies, why not give eles energy when they finish casting? Dervishes get energy when enchants end on them (health, too), etc. And that would max at 32% energy back, which would be about the same as one attunement. I personally don't think it would be overpowered, considering that rangers (with max in Expertise) can reduce costs of all non-spells by 64%.

So, things I would like to see:
- Less exhaustion on elites!
- Lowered energy cost for spells that have stupidly high energy cost for their payoff, or buffs for such spells.
- Better non-elite energy management, possibly built in, so that eles can actually use other elites.
- Lowered cast times.
- Lowered recharge times. Like, way lowered. Eles should be able to through out a LOT of pain, not just launch off some stuff, then go and have time to bake a pie while waiting for the recharge of spells to be able to cast again.
- Ability to throw out DoT AoEs like crazy. Firestorm doesn't hurt much, and is a joke as it is. But imagine if you could get 2 going at the same time? That could actually add up.
- These changes to be balanced. For example, the cost on a 5 second recharge Firestorm is fine at 15, at the current recharge, 5 is appropriate. After all, you're probably going to do less damage than a flare would do for all the longer your target(s) are going to stay in it.
- Rethink certain elite spells. For example, Lightning Surge could use the usual Air Armor Penetration.

And finally: I'd like to see some cool 15k armor that actually has some burning effects, or mist, etc.

On a random side note, to feel powerful: put 16 in fire, and use Inferno on a Frenzying Hellhound. 500+ damage.

Lordhelmos · Aug 06, 2006, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Oh yea on a side note I transformed a fast cast mesmer into an elementalist primary.

I shot him with broadhead arrow.

Lordhelmos · Aug 06, 2006, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sientir

This thread has many points that I agree with.
Problems:
- Stupid long cast times and recharge times.
- Limited elite choice (you HAVE to bring e-management, unless you are running some wonky build for something).
- 4 pips regen do NOT support 70+ energy.
- Exhaustion on skills that don't need it (the Mind ***** skills come to mind).
- Really high energy costs for skills that don't need it.

I don't think damage is a problem (except in later stages of PvE. The AoE in the Necromancer's curses line is way more potent.) The problem is the frequency with which potent spells can be used.

Anyway, I recently made an ele, and my first char was an ele. I have found Air to be way more potent than fire, especially later in the game. However, I have to use dual enchants and use Aura as a cover to be able to cast. That's 3/8 of my bar right there. What would be nice would be some sort of elementalist varient of the monk's Spell Shield spell.

Oh, and Chilblains in the desert = pain. Why? because it strips two enchants now. Jade Scarabs would run up to me and BANG! there goes Aura and one of my attunements. Just like that. The recharge on the attunements is killer.

Additionally, elementalist's DoT AoE is just sad. Give Firestorm something like a 5 second recharge, then I might consider it a good spell. As it is, it is only good in Pre searing, where the enemies are still stupid enough to hang out in it. Searing Heat is a joke (25 energy just to warn your enemy that if they don't move, you get to burn 'em for a couple seconds? Give me flame trap please.), and Eruption suffers the same issue.

Additionally, some elites are just sad. Did you know that Lightning Surge DOESN'T have armor penetration? I didn't realize it until i did Dragon's Lair the other day, and my Lightning Orb was hitting for more damage. Seriously, increase the cost and recharge to 15, and you could make Lightning Surge a non-elite. It isn't like it isn't removed right away in RA (the only place it might be used in PvP, imo) by the energy needing monk with Inspired Hex.

Overall, there have been, in my views, a lot of good points made in this thread. Energy Storage doesn't help much, except for increasing duration of vital e-management elites. While I think bonus regen could help, it doesn't make sense to do it because such would be overpowering. I also don't think Eles need to do more damage, I think they need to be able to cast more. The only places I think eles should do more damage is later PvE areas, and that could be altered just by changing the enemies armor levels, which would be a lot easier than trying to fairly buff ele's damage from spells. Afterall, both aspects of this game have to be looked at. You can't just balance for one or the other (PvE or PvP). I do like the idea of the Attunements being linked to e-storage and scaling up with that, or just having a higher scale, and not stacking with Elemental Attunement. Sadly, that still leaves them vulnerable to shatters and enchant removal. What would be nice is if e-storage had a built in energy redeeming factor. Like, whenever you finish casting a spell, you get 2% back for each point in it. Afterall, necros gain energy when stuff dies, why not give eles energy when they finish casting? Dervishes get energy when enchants end on them (health, too), etc. And that would max at 32% energy back, which would be about the same as one attunement. I personally don't think it would be overpowered, considering that rangers (with max in Expertise) can reduce costs of all non-spells by 64%.

So, things I would like to see:
- Less exhaustion on elites!
- Lowered energy cost for spells that have stupidly high energy cost for their payoff, or buffs for such spells.
- Better non-elite energy management, possibly built in, so that eles can actually use other elites.
- Lowered cast times.
- Lowered recharge times. Like, way lowered. Eles should be able to through out a LOT of pain, not just launch off some stuff, then go and have time to bake a pie while waiting for the recharge of spells to be able to cast again.
- Ability to throw out DoT AoEs like crazy. Firestorm doesn't hurt much, and is a joke as it is. But imagine if you could get 2 going at the same time? That could actually add up.
- These changes to be balanced. For example, the cost on a 5 second recharge Firestorm is fine at 15, at the current recharge, 5 is appropriate. After all, you're probably going to do less damage than a flare would do for all the longer your target(s) are going to stay in it.
- Rethink certain elite spells. For example, Lightning Surge could use the usual Air Armor Penetration.

And finally: I'd like to see some cool 15k armor that actually has some burning effects, or mist, etc.

On a random side note, to feel powerful: put 16 in fire, and use Inferno on a Frenzying Hellhound. 500+ damage.

The sad part is, even if all these things were implemented and elementalist STILL won't match up to a dervish in its current state. If something isn't done, it will be really easy to put down the wand and pick up the scythe. Half of the community is going to do so anyway. Even with nerfs, I have a feeling that the 2 new classes are going to be much more effective than the ele.

Cynn Evennia · Aug 06, 2006, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

The sad part is, even if all these things were implemented and elementalist STILL won't match up to a dervish in its current state. If something isn't done, it will be really easy to put down the wand and pick up the scythe. Half of the community is going to do so anyway. Even with nerfs, I have a feeling that the 2 new classes are going to be much more effective than the ele.

Two thumbs up to Lordhelmos.

I am afraid i will be one of those ex wand-erers that will take the scythe in order to deal real elemental damage, nasty AoE, better armor (add up the buffs) and healing skills, all included in the same profession:

Dervish = elementalist + monk + Melee (cyclone axe included with hammer-like dmg output)

But dont forget that spear > bow: a paragon can poison, daze, set on fire, bleed and interrupt, like having poison arrow, incendiary arrows, broad head arrow and melandrus arrows all equipped (all those are elites for a ranger). Add the 96 armor and then you have a beast.

I can foretell that since we will be facing Dervishes and Paragons the Elementalists will play the same roles in PvE @ Nightfall than those they run in PvP: Heal Party + Freeze spammers, some Blinds and maybe a Ward here and there. I must confess that this supporting role is certainly useful and somewhat necessary, but it is really disappointing for the supposed damage dealer to end up as a defensive spammer.

Cynn Evennia · Aug 06, 2006, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

Oh yea on a side note I transformed a fast cast mesmer into an elementalist primary.

I shot him with broadhead arrow.

Sarcastic but true. ANET are you hearing? Prove us that this assertion is not true:

ELEMENTALIST = DAZED MESMER

Spike · Aug 06, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

I DO NOT pvp or solo. I play as part of a GROUP so I relay on others in the group to do thier role so I can do mine.

glyph of energy (e)
Rebirth
fireball
Incendray bonds
Healing breeze
Rodgrots invocation
metor shower
8th slot changes depending on what I'm doing.

16 (12+3+1) fire
11 (10+1) Eenergy Storage
8 Healing

I have 105 energy. I get this from wand +15e -1r and off hand +27e -1r +hp 30. I play a lot in the waren. So I start with glyph, shower, fireball,glyph, rodgrots, bonds. In the 1st 2/3 rooms with the huge numbers of mobs.

While this may not work for you. It works fine for me. As for as cookie cutter crap. I say if it works for you then its not crap.

The Great Al · Aug 06, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Well, remember that eles do have the strongest elite emanagement skills in the game. It's just that those are the only valid options, and they cause exhaustion. So instead of EStorage being this decent attribute that gave you the flexibility to use good emanagement skills while still buffering some exhaustion, you have a situation where max energy and exhaustion are just tools to use to power your energy elite of choice.

Eh? Eles have some of the best defensive options in the game, it's just that all of the PvP-viable ones are proactive - blind, knockdown, speed, snares, wards. Yeah their armor isn't all that impressive but there's more to defense than armor. People play eles as third monks a lot of the time and there's a reason for that.

Peace,
-CxE

by the time eles are done putting their energy management skills and 'defensive options' in the skill bar, there's no room left to do any damage.

Trylo · Aug 06, 2006, 11:30 PM // 23:30

something new i learned yesterday: While attuned, it takes the original cost of the spell, even while the spell might be reduced by glyphs... interesting huh?

Well, i learned that while i was out capping Peace and Harmony, which is a really odd boss, like a Xunlai Agent in the middle of a snow storm

ANYWAYS...

Why not have a peace and harmony warder? why wouldnt that work? 5 regen is quite nice, and you can keep it up for as long as you want... just throw a few wards on, some defense and some backup heals like dwaynas kiss and you have a very defensive, helpful, progressive ele. With only 1 more pip of energy...*hint hint* *nudge nudge*

Well, ANET, please look at some proportions, that was like 3rd grade maybe...

1.3 energy a sec = 45 max energy = 5-10 energy spells, rarely 15, MAINTAINABLE

1.3 energy a sec /=/ 80 max energy /=/ 10-15 energy, MOSTLY 25
maintainable? with dual enchantments, enchantment hate = high...

2 things change, the most important one doesnt.

...my point may not be very complex, but either buff the attunements further and betray eles to FC, or give eles around 2.3 energy a second... roughly 7 regen, which is only 1 pip below the "what an ele needs to outdamage a war 1v1" math. Seems right to me. To many abuses, unfortuneately.

An Idea : Have some recharge times linked to energy storage, ie:

Elemental Attunement: 10e, 2s, 45r
For 45 seconds, you are attuned to Air, Fire, Water, and Earth. You gain 50% of the Energy cost of the Spell each time you use magic associated with any of these elements. If your energy storage is below 4, this skill takes an additional 30 seconds to recharge.

...might stop FC mesmers...as long as arcane echo doesnt ... arg redoing my redone skill...that would give a what...65s attunement which has been recharging for 65s seconds...giving a 12 second respite... umm no...

Elemental Attunement: 10e, 2s, 45r
For 45 seconds, you are attuned to Air, Fire, Water, and Earth. You gain 50% of the Energy cost of the Spell each time you use magic associated with any of these elements. If your energy storage is below 4, this skill takes an additional 60 seconds to recharge.

Yeah. do that anet.

Cynn Evennia · Aug 07, 2006, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

I DO NOT pvp or solo. I play as part of a GROUP so I rely on others in the group to do their role so I can do mine.

glyph of energy (e)
Rebirth
fireball
Incendiary bonds
Healing breeze
Rodgrots invocation
metor shower
8th slot changes depending on what I'm doing.

16 (12+3+1) fire
11 (10+1) Eenergy Storage
8 Healing

I have 105 energy. I get this from wand +15e -1r and off hand +27e -1r +hp 30. I play a lot in the waren. So I start with glyph, shower, fireball, glyph, rodgrots, bonds. In the 1st 2/3 rooms with the huge numbers of mobs.

While this may not work for you. It works fine for me. As for as cookie cutter crap. I say if it works for you then its not crap.

Interesting build without enchantments, but even if its a good idea it does not give you the right to call others "crap".

With your build you cast Meteor shower or Rodgorts after glyph of Energy, and thats 1 shower and 3 rodgorts in one minute: not bad since you deal damage via burning with rodgorts and incendiary, but not enough KD for me.

You are totally dependent on Glyph of energy. Try any other elite choice without enchantments and you will see its impossible to cast with a decent frequency without them. For instance If you switch for Glyph of renewal you can cast a Meteor shower every 15 seconds and a Rodgorts each 15 seconds. Of course that in that way you need Fire attunement to manage energy, and Aura of restoration to cover it.

Now you understand why the need of enchantments, even in PvE?

Lastly, Having just 3 pips because of the wand and using Rebirth means to wait an eternity for your energy to be fully recharged, and 4 pips does not change much the situation. I bring Resurrection chant instead.

Cynn Evennia · Aug 07, 2006, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trylo

An Idea : Have some recharge times linked to energy storage, ie:

Elemental Attunement: 10e, 2s, 45r
For 45 seconds, you are attuned to Air, Fire, Water, and Earth. You gain 50% of the Energy cost of the Spell each time you use magic associated with any of these elements. If your energy storage is below 4, this skill takes an additional 30 seconds to recharge.

...might stop FC mesmers...as long as arcane echo doesnt ... arg redoing my redone skill...that would give a what...65s attunement which has been recharging for 65s seconds...giving a 12 second respite... umm no...

Elemental Attunement: 10e, 2s, 45r
For 45 seconds, you are attuned to Air, Fire, Water, and Earth. You gain 50% of the Energy cost of the Spell each time you use magic associated with any of these elements. If your energy storage is below 4, this skill takes an additional 60 seconds to recharge.

Yeah. do that anet.

I do not agree at all, Trylo. What we need is lower recharge times on Attunements, not just to "kill the FC ele". We need to recast attunements when they are removed, just like we can cast Aura of restoration or a monk casts Divine boon.

I have proposed that all attunements dependent on Energy storage ranks in order to get better percentages of energy back. This is what i ask concretely:

Air/Earth/Fire/Water Attunement
10 energy, 2 sec cast, 15 sec recharge.
For 30...70 seconds you are attuned to Air/Earth/Fire/Water. You gain 30%...100% of the energy cost of the skill each time you use Air/Earth/Fire/Water magic.

Elemental Attunement
Same stats but with all elements.

Note: Twin attunements give you 83% back and the other 17% its the pips that give it back. I expect to have the same 83% at 13 or 14 Energy storage ranks without using twin attunements.

Ashantara · Aug 07, 2006, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Might have been posted here already (but I'm too lazy to read through the whole thread

):

Elementalists won't be the only ones cursing those Dervish skills... I play a devoted active protter Monk, and trust me, I hate them already.

Spike · Aug 07, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynn Evennia

Interesting build without enchantments, but even if its a good idea it does not give you the right to call others "crap".

With your build you cast Meteor shower or Rodgorts after glyph of Energy, and thats 1 shower and 3 rodgorts in one minute: not bad since you deal damage via burning with rodgorts and incendiary, but not enough KD for me.

You are totally dependent on Glyph of energy. Try any other elite choice without enchantments and you will see its impossible to cast with a decent frequency without them. For instance If you switch for Glyph of renewal you can cast a Meteor shower every 15 seconds and a Rodgorts each 15 seconds. Of course that in that way you need Fire attunement to manage energy, and Aura of restoration to cover it.

Now you understand why the need of enchantments, even in PvE?

Lastly, Having just 3 pips because of the wand and using Rebirth means to wait an eternity for your energy to be fully recharged, and 4 pips does not change much the situation. I bring Resurrection chant instead.

Yes I am totaly dependent on glpyh of energy, BUT thats because how the build works and was built. While you CAN cast faster with glyph of renewal your forgeting about the exhaustion that both rodgrots and metor shower cause. So even if you could cast the spells you would be so exhausted you could'nt. This is the OTHER reason for useing glyph of energy not on does it give you 20 energy off the next spell its ALSO stop exhaustion. Which since I play in the warren alot is VERY handy in the rooms where every spell you cast causes exhaustion.

I actually only have 2 pips of regen. But if I have to rez people it means something has gone badly wrong and I will have enough time anway to regen. Res chant has only half the range of rebirth so since I will only be rezing people if something has gone badly wrong I find that haveing a bigger range is better.

Cynn Evennia · Aug 07, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

Yes I am totaly dependent on glpyh of energy, BUT thats because how the build works and was built. While you CAN cast faster with glyph of renewal your forgeting about the exhaustion that both rodgrots and metor shower cause. So even if you could cast the spells you would be so exhausted you could'nt. This is the OTHER reason for useing glyph of energy not on does it give you 20 energy off the next spell its ALSO stop exhaustion. Which since I play in the warren alot is VERY handy in the rooms where every spell you cast causes exhaustion.

I actually only have 2 pips of regen. But if I have to rez people it means something has gone badly wrong and I will have enough time anway to regen. Res chant has only half the range of rebirth so since I will only be rezing people if something has gone badly wrong I find that haveing a bigger range is better.

Dear Spike, Rodgorts does not cause exhaustion. Yes i have exhaustion due to Meteor shower but after all the extra energy granted by E storage allows me to get exhausted, and thanks to fire attunement and the Glyph of renewal i can cast 2 Meteor showers and 2 Rodgorts per mob. Meteor shower is nice for the KD effect and because enemies flee away and so they are not attacking; the damage is nothing impressive but is not terrible.

As a matter of fact I cast the first Rodgorts after the Glyph of lesser energy and the second one free but since you got the rebate without counting the glyph reduction i get nice paybacks.

Ara of restoration is my cover for Fire attunement and for alleviating monks a little bit from healing me.

About res: i res people as soon as they fall down, and res chant grants me to raise them at full health.

frojack · Aug 07, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

Form what I've seen in these posts, it seems to me people here either have NEVER played an ele, or have NO idea how to play one if have, or are totaly crap at playing them if they have any idea about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

Yes I am totaly dependent on glpyh of energy, BUT thats because how the build works and was built. While you CAN cast faster with glyph of renewal your forgeting about the exhaustion that both rodgrots and metor shower cause. So even if you could cast the spells you would be so exhausted you could'nt.

Sorry. I had to...