Curse

Count to Potato · Aug 21, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Easiest way to kill a toucher is do more dmg then he steals from u, and knock him down, interupt his touch or something close to that, the best nerf that should happen is making SS back to its old self

RandomEngy · Aug 21, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

I like every update made to the game. Guild Wars is a great game to get skill updates in, because unlike other games, the work you put into your characters is never wasted. When a skill is changed to be less effective, you can just think up a new bar and go try it out.

Kaida the Heartless · Aug 21, 2006, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Best way to fix the toucher is to increase the recharge time on Touches. A Necro can't spam them effectively, so theres no need to have them at such a short recharge time. Something between 4 and 6 seconds would work greatly.

What was SS like before? I don't recall...

The MM nerf was pretty bad. Poor, poor Verata. Even though I enjoyed having a gazillion man undead army, it needed some change. I still think it would have been much more fun to just retrain the monster AI to spike the MM, ending the run effectively :P

Chewbacca Defense · Aug 21, 2006, 06:00 PM // 18:00

LOL! With all the distain for "nerfing", I wonder what the GW world would be like if ANET would Buff everything! If, for some miracle, they could buff every skill everytime there was a complaint about it, would there be distain for the "buffing".

I guess people would complain about buffNet. hahaha.. but it would be hilarious if they changed EoE to the following:

Create a level 1...8 Spirit. If a non-Spirit creature within its range dies, Edge of Extinction deals 14...43 damage to all nearby creatures of the same type. All nearby allies of the will be healed 2 points of health for each point of health lost by nearby creatures of the same type. All nearby foes will suffer 30s of bleeding if still alive. This Spirit dies after 30...126 seconds and cannot be the target of any attacks or spells.

Otherwise, they could turn GW into Sims 3 where nobody dies and we could all just play house all the time. Then everyone would be happy 'cause then it would totally be balanced.

Winx.ZN · Aug 21, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

EDIT:
No. Shatter Enchantments, and then watch them squirm. IWAY is a SHOUT, and so cannot be removed.

Its +10 regen, EVERY 45 SECONDS. I said their shout is equal in regen as of a +3 mending and a +7 healing breeze (since it lasts for 10 seconds) and the mending ending in 10 seconds too.
Why would I even want to shatter that(or "silence")? They have 10 seconds which to get back to full hp while I have 45 to whittle them back to 0. They depend on being in melee range and not having various other counters (like anti-adrenaline, blind, weakening) that make it so the most they can do is stretch out the time of the match. An unprepared and noobie group will fall to iWAY. They would have fallen to any of the spike groups, smite groups and balanced as well.

Maria The Princess · Aug 21, 2006, 09:36 PM // 21:36

i like Sims

and yes how about just stop whining... every build has its own strengh and weakness, som eare stronguer some are weaker...

People learned how to deal with IWAY, Spikers, Trappers... if you are asking to nurf a whole primary attribute because you fing that a certain build is "anoying", im sorry but the problem is your play style.

ANET made a twin copy of Vamp touch for a reason, after doin research and observations. if they wouldn't want Touchers coming, they would convert Vamp touch in a "core" skill and non in a "twin" set.

get over it and use criplings and interrupters.

Kaida the Heartless · Aug 22, 2006, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Heres an idea for some of you. This isn't a touch ranger thread. Stop bringing it up and acting like you are supreme master overlord of guild wars for killing a touchie. It's about balance and equallity, not rather or not they can be killed.

I also didn't say buff every skill every time. I said buff some skills some of the time, and nerf some skills some of the time. Read over pls. Geez. There's loads of skills out there just waiting to be used, but they are so trashy that there is no point. Perhaps give those skills a buff when the situation approves.

And btw Winx, IWAY lasts for 10 additional seconds for each dead ally in range. With 4 dead pets, its 40 seconds of +hp regen and +attack speed. That's what makes it strong. Sorry if you knew this but I thought you didn't realize that from your post.

explodemyheart · Aug 22, 2006, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Heres an idea for some of you. This isn't a touch ranger thread. Stop bringing it up and acting like you are supreme master overlord of guild wars for killing a touchie. It's about balance and equallity, not rather or not they can be killed.

I think the point is that just as easily as it's said that Anet could nerf touch rangers, you could actually use some of your own ingenuity and come up with a build that can kill touch rangers and not whine about how they're too powerful.

When you mention that you think touchers should be nerfed, I think making such statements against why or how it can be countered, instead of nerfed, is perfectly relevant.

Maria The Princess · Aug 22, 2006, 04:14 AM // 04:14

to kill a touchie? ONLY 1 skill!!! VIRTULENCE

explodemyheart · Aug 22, 2006, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

to kill a touchie? ONLY 1 skill!!!

Are you kidding me? There's plenty of things that can kill a touch ranger, so I hope you're kidding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

VIRTULENCE

Virulence.

Maria The Princess · Aug 22, 2006, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

Are you kidding me? There's plenty of things that can kill a touch ranger, so I hope you're kidding.

lol no im not kidding, but i know PLENTY of ways. I was responding to a post that suggested to fing a BUILD to kill a touchie. no need for a whole anti-touchie build, all you need is that 1 skill on your skill bar and you are equiped.

ya theres blackout, cripling, mass degen, and all that...but i was satting that al it takes is 1 skill...

Dirty Panda · Aug 22, 2006, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Weekes

Anyway, you should know that there is huge amounts of analysis that goes into any changes that are made. That extends from forum posts, through obs mode monitoring, through data, through the alpha test. There is *always* a reason for any change that goes through. It may not always be obvious, but there will be a reason.

ive seen gaile say something like this before, but i have to ask while we play do you secretly watch us?can you obs anyone, anywhere, anytime?

now you got me looking over my e-shoulder

JR · Aug 22, 2006, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Panda

ive seen gaile say something like this before, but i have to ask while we play do you secretly watch us?can you obs anyone, anywhere, anytime?

now you got me looking over my e-shoulder

I believe he said on an episode of Weapon of Choice that he has multiple monitors constantly monitoring matches on Observer mode, run with a script that automatically picks games to watch. So no, only matches that are already on observer mode.

Pretty justifiable, as if it's not in the top 100 on the GvG ladder, or dominating Halls, who cares?

mqstout · Aug 22, 2006, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Also, why people don't understand the concept of kiting if something that requires them to be adjacent to do damage is chasing them.

Because most touch rangers I see can't be kited -- they use +speed ranger skills a lot.

RotteN · Aug 22, 2006, 01:30 PM // 13:30

bring a snare :P

Clone · Aug 22, 2006, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Have some nerfs helped balance certian areas of the game? Yes.

Have some nerfs alienated players by changing other parts of the game that really didn't need to be changed at all? Yes.

When you have so many various skills, you'll always be able to find one or two that really shine for some specific task. EoE bomb on these missions is just another example of it. Is it their fault for using a skill as it was designed? Is it the fault of the level designers for leaving it open to issues like this. Is it the fault that nobody was running defense against these builds? I admit I haven't done any PvP in a long time, but Unnatural Signet seems like it might work pretty well there. And finally, does somebody who never does these missions also need to be affected by the change. Anet is a bit heavy handed with the nerfs sometimes, and I think this could have been countered without making the skill useless.

lyra_song · Aug 22, 2006, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Panda

ive seen gaile say something like this before, but i have to ask while we play do you secretly watch us?can you obs anyone, anywhere, anytime?

now you got me looking over my e-shoulder

Im pretty sure they have logs of your actions and text, otherwise how would they track botters.

I'm just imagining but they would have databases like:

Player Lyra logged on 10:04 PM EST IP: 123.456.345.2.1
Player Lyra selected character Yachiru 10:05 PM EST
Player Lyra maps to Guild Hall #41354566 x, 14, y 32 10:05 PM EST
Player Lyra maps to Elona Reach American Server 2 x: 56, y 09 10:06 PM EST
Player Lyra local chat: Hello botters! 10:06 PM EST
Player Lyra sends pm Player ____: Whatcha doin? 10:08 PM EST
Player Lyra sends pm Player ____: Fine dont talk to me >.< Im gonna go kill minos and pretend its your face 10:12 PM EST
Player Lyra sets Do Not Disturb: 10:12 PM EST
Player Lyra enters mission Elona Reach instance #245 10:15 PM EST
etc.....

And im sure they can pull up any data they want....

Kaida the Heartless · Aug 22, 2006, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Player Lyra sends pm Player ____: Fine dont talk to me >.< Im gonna go kill minos and pretend its your face 10:12 PM EST

LOL

Here's why touchies need a surprise attack from the supah-nerfer.

- Incredibly strong versus elemental attacks due to armor type.
- Incredibly evasive versus physical due to all the stances.

There goes effective DPS against them.

- Immune to conditions via plague touch. Crippling would work if people knew how to kite to avoid being plague touched.
- Counter's any kiting via constant speed boosts. Want to run? They'll keep up with you. Your's is going to run out before theirs.

There goes kiting, unless your a mesmer but well get to that later.

- 65-71 damage, spammable, life stealing attack. Can be spammed approximately every second. This results in a 65 dps + healing move.

High self healing and damage at the same time.

So, a touch ranger is strong versus both physical and elemental damage, technically immune to conditions, unescapable, and has the ability to deal high damage whilst healing at the same time. This seems balanced to you?

The only weakness a rouch ranger has is the lack of the ability to remove hexes. Who doesnt suffer from that weakness?

If someone can post any other build that is immune to 90% of all that is guild wars, i'll rest my case. 55's and Spirit Bonders aside, since it only takes shatter enchantment/removal to wreck them (gaping weakness).

Chilly Ress · Aug 22, 2006, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Pretty justifiable, as if it's not in the top 100 on the GvG ladder, or dominating Halls, who cares?

Umm...lets see...the thousands of players who arent there?

Unaccurate · Aug 23, 2006, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

LOL

Here's why touchies need a surprise attack from the supah-nerfer.

- Incredibly strong versus elemental attacks due to armor type.
- Incredibly evasive versus physical due to all the stances.

There goes effective DPS against them.

- Immune to conditions via plague touch. Crippling would work if people knew how to kite to avoid being plague touched.
- Counter's any kiting via constant speed boosts. Want to run? They'll keep up with you. Your's is going to run out before theirs.

There goes kiting, unless your a mesmer but well get to that later.

- 65-71 damage, spammable, life stealing attack. Can be spammed approximately every second. This results in a 65 dps + healing move.

High self healing and damage at the same time.

So, a touch ranger is strong versus both physical and elemental damage, technically immune to conditions, unescapable, and has the ability to deal high damage whilst healing at the same time. This seems balanced to you?

The only weakness a rouch ranger has is the lack of the ability to remove hexes. Who doesnt suffer from that weakness?

If someone can post any other build that is immune to 90% of all that is guild wars, i'll rest my case. 55's and Spirit Bonders aside, since it only takes shatter enchantment/removal to wreck them (gaping weakness).

How about you stop sitting there and taking all the damage from the touch ranger, and actually move away from the touch ranger. Kite anyone? sure they run faster than you, but they have to cast a spell. So you manage to keep them down to a touch every 10 seconds.