Curse

yesitsrob · Aug 27, 2006, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Rits: Need a buff to a significant number of their skills, and Rit Lord needs toning down, as it is, you've got the dullest class ever, it's a VoD machine with 1 build.

Rangers: Something, I don't know what... I don't really care about touchers because they're a complete joke anyway, but some scrubs can't seem to handle them... I think the ridiculous power of expertise was emphasized this ladder though, via thumpers (not scrub touchers)... I'd rather not see a nerf to the hammer skills... so something on the ranger side :\.

Ele: I'm really content with them being the utility roll, but wouldn't mind a buff on some of the fire line.

Quote:

Necromancer
- Soul Reaping gives full energy whenever a spirit dies.

don't be silly. the 15 pip energy regen feast spike was like a lot imba. It's still extremely effective.

makosi · Aug 27, 2006, 11:04 PM // 23:04

I think Conjure Nightmare should be reduced to 15 energy but the duration should also be reduced to maintain balance. Conjure Phantasm is -5 regen where as Conjure Nightmare is -8 regen so is 25 energy really worth it for another 3 degen?

Eles would benefit from a few casting speed improvements, more in the way of self-healing and damage buffs across the Water and Air lines.

Since the inherent effect of Divine Favour is restricted to monks spells only, I'd like to see a greater health gain from Divine Favour (four or five health points per rank of DF) and extend this to monk skills, not just spells. Also, some energy management wouldn't go a miss.

As for rangers, clarify the expertise description or fix the 'bug' that allows skills that aren't 'attack skills' to be used at a reduced cost. Yes, I'm talking about touchers but I'm not suggesting that they're overpowered in any sense. My point is that these touch skills are neither "traps, preparations or attacks skills" therefore there is a discrepancy somewhere.

Warriors and necromancer are fine the way they are. As for Assassins and Ritualists, I haven't played them enough to asses their needs.

ChildeOfMalkav · Aug 27, 2006, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

As for rangers, clarify the expertise description or fix the 'bug' that allows skills that aren't 'attack skills' to be used at a reduced cost.

It's not a bug. The ingame description is as follows: "For each rank of Expertise, the energy cost of all your non-spells decreases by 4%."

I think it's pretty straightforward. It never said in the description that the skills have to be traps, preparations, or attack skills. Go look ingame for yourself.

Saider maul · Aug 27, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

I do not think touchies are hard. However it does limit variety. Thus it does need nerfed. Many Feel the same way both PvE'ers and PvP'ers agree. I shall not flame the way you did, However expertise does make a swiss army knife out of the ranger with better energy managment then most classes.

If you are angry then these changes would effect builds you run. These changes would mean you would have to adapt. Flaming that way show your not willing to do so.

We have had both high ranked players and players of the class state expertise does require a change to ranger skills only due to over exploitation.

Attitude is not appreciated in a forum of public opinion.

makosi · Aug 27, 2006, 11:42 PM // 23:42

You're right but they must have updated it without listing it on the site. This is what it looked like before:

Saider maul · Aug 27, 2006, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

Definition of abuse:

To use wrongly or improperly; misuse: abuse alcohol; abuse a privilege.
Improper use or handling; misuse: abuse of authority; drug abuse.

In the context of the discussion of Touch Rangers, "over abused" and "overpowered" mean practically the same thing.

Maybe you should be the one to pay attention.

Overabuse is proper description for what is happening with the ranger.
Overpowered does not mean practically the same thing.

Please do not twist my word to suit your need to flame.

This is a game. just a game . not a life. a game.

expertise does allow a slightly larger advantage to secondary abilities. basically if it has the title of skill its half the cost.
having most stance defenses attached to expertise makes this both an attribute energy managment system and source of protection ability.

Its pretty bad when a ranger has better energy managment and implimentation with some of its secondaries then those classes would as primaries.

Now lets stop the flaming and stay on topic here of what we think should be changed.

Phades · Aug 28, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChildeOfMalkav

Nice job on nitpicking, poindexter. It still doesnt change the fact that youre totally ignorant. I'll say it again, all primary attributes except for DF, can benefit secondary skills. You were wrong and whatever reasons you stated doesnt change the fact that you were wrong.

Unless you want to do something wise like lower your warrior based damage by doing something like using ranger or assassin skills as your primary method of attack, you will realize you are speaking from your ass.

Energy storage is neutral, as it doesnt do anything other than create more space to put exhaustion into. Which doesnt help much since its the exact same wait everyone else has before it goes away.

Soul reaping was just a gimmic to give free energy to power corpse exploitation skills. It wasnt until the ritualist came along to "break" the attribute. Furthermore, to really get the full benefit out of it, you will require running 1 specific build not just inserting a necromancer into any build to try and take advantage of what soul reaping could do. Even with a ritualist, you are looking at roughly equivilant numbers across each necromancer as ether prodigy without any drawback aside from those inherent with the build.

Spawning power is only useful on spirits really and only creates a synergy with the self damaging spirits, that also happen to be ritualist only skills.

I also fail to see where critical strikes is causing rebalancing considerations at all for any other profession's skills, since it is random when it does trigger and the effect is minor and only applies to basic attacks and attack skills. Its not like critical strikes is causing critical blackout durations, or critical trap damage and durations, critical pet attacks, etc.

Then you have the mesmer's fast casting, which is the only place you can have any kind of argument that it makes a real difference. Then again, if you have been paying attention to the trends within pvp, you will notice that mesmers are used in virtually every build, similar to rangers, monks and warriors. Then again, the fast casting does more for the bulk of ele skills and necromancer skills than the majority of the mesmer skills anyway, as the actual effect of it is more noticable on spells with a cast time of 2s or greater due to the consideration of aftercast times.

Its been more common for ANET to nerf the vehicle that drives the builds (ie the source of the energy) than it is to rebalance the entire profession(s) skills to make it fair. So, then you have expertise, which is purely energy management and fast casting which is not. Hamstring the engine where its being used out of place compared to other professions, then re-evaluate.

ChildeOfMalkav · Aug 28, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saider maul

I do not think touchies are hard. However it does limit variety. Thus it does need nerfed.

You're contradicting yourself. You say that touchies limit variety. Yet you want Expertise to only affect Ranger skills. Guess what genius. That would limite variety far more than any lame touchie build. Good job.

Ado · Aug 28, 2006, 12:26 AM // 00:26

They need to buff "I Will Avenge You!"

Just kiddin

Rent · Aug 28, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Keep in mind this thread is not "what do you want to be changed", it's "what changes do you think will be implemented?"

I honestly think touch rangers will be looked at, somehow, knowing Anet.

ChildeOfMalkav · Aug 28, 2006, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Unless you want to do something wise like lower your warrior based damage by doing something like using ranger or assassin skills as your primary method of attack, you will realize you are speaking from your ass.

Whether or not Im speaking from my ass, it still makes more sense that what you're saying. No one said that warriors bow or dagger attacks will be effective. Thanks for throwing out some blatantly obvious examples.

On the flip side, we can say that a Ranger using a sword or an axe is seriously gimping his damage. So we should say that Expertise is horribly underpowered right? Of course not. Unlike you, we dont make assumptions based on a few builds that obviously dont work.

You've listed only the cons for each of the primary attributes and compared them only to the "overpowered" pros of Expertise. Of course they have drawbacks, even Expertise has one....it doesnt affect spells.

But hey...keep on whining about Expertise okay?

samifly · Aug 28, 2006, 12:31 AM // 00:31

add a second or two to the recharge, or make expertise work 2% on non ranger skills, or... "this skill is not affected by expertise"

Lambentviper · Aug 28, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

I don't think at all they'll touch stuff like Vamp Bite.

was that pun intended? :P

anyways....I'd hate to see DebilShot nerfed....though i can see it coming.

Echo Debilitating with serpent's quickness makes for a better and easier (not to mention less targeted) e-denial.

Theus · Aug 28, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Make Channeling actually useful.

Hitting a Ranger Boss with a 10 energy spell for 26 damage is idiotic.

Swampgirl Inez · Aug 28, 2006, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Since the original topic was based on speculation and some of you can't seem to grasp the concept of No Flaming/Trolling allowed and staying on topic, I am closing this.