Curse

Unaccurate · Aug 30, 2006, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matix411

Edit:
This advertising, which started about 20 minutes ago, is still going on.

Dear god, hes been spamming for 20 minutes and hasnt been banned yet. What are anet admins doing?!?
Everyone is telling anet to go ban the bots in elona/droknars. They go and ban people who play like bots and everyone is complaining.

ChildeOfMalkav · Aug 30, 2006, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unaccurate

Everyone is telling anet to go ban the bots in elona/droknars. They go and ban people who play like bots and everyone is complaining.

And they're wrong for complaining that they're banning the wrong people? Uhh what?

TheLordOfBlah · Aug 30, 2006, 03:32 AM // 03:32

This thread scares me.

Mustache Mayhem · Aug 30, 2006, 03:52 AM // 03:52

I had some dealings with support.. it seems they only deal with your ticket once a day in the morning pacific time and sometimes the ticket gets messed up and is missing stuff- it's not the same guy that handles your ticket everyday and they go by what's on there I think.. I had to put information that was left out of the ticket after around 4 days and it was resolved

but maybe you were botting though who knows for sure

Feminist Terrorist · Aug 30, 2006, 04:24 AM // 04:24

I hope you fight like hell to get them to realize their mistakes. There definitely needs to be more accountability in the support section. Not to mention that the automated email people get back in no way indicates that a person has any recourse. It's only through forums that I knew to respond and/or update the ticket.

bart · Aug 30, 2006, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilderness

This is making me laugh now...

I have already recieved an email from Areanet (which I posted earlier in this thread) that clearly stated that my account would be unlocked in 24 hours.

It has been five days and still nothing, so after sending yet another email to ask what the problem is, they send the same automated response I recieved before.

Another semi-automated response, this time from a different GM who hasn't even bothered to read the rest of my ticket's thread, it seems.

This company has little or no idea how to handle customer relations. I will fight for my account to be unlocked, as a matter of principle, then I think I will be leaving this game.

The way they've handled this situation is a joke.

maybe GM Trent has been replaced by GUS!

ubermancer · Aug 30, 2006, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cancel Skill

I think you haven't read all the replies, but it's okay, it's a bit long to read. The guy got his account back.

I read everything you guys wrote and I have a question: How is it possible to make a bot able to solo farm? I have to say I know only some bases in programming. I think any type of solo farming needs a human controller. Spawns often change each time you exist a town or outpost. I thought a bot was like: go there, then do that. get drops then go back to town. rinse and repeat.

But how can you tell a bot to: Use prot spirit before it flashes, so if it gets interupted, you can cast it again without dying. Don't use Hb if you have only 1 or 2 foes attacking -> Mending will heal you enought. If you use Hb, you may get out of energy, and those 1 or 2 foes could kill you.

I mean, this may look stupid, but if I could be able to get a bot able to solo stuff as well as I do,(Sf, Uw, Fow, Giants, Bosses, Desert, and some others) I'd get it. I'd buy another Guildwars, run the bot, let it farm, transfer the good items and money to my account. If they ban my "bot" account, haha okay, thx. I buy another Guildwars, run the bot, let it farm, etc. I'd really do it(I would not really do it, read till the end please), but I really, really doubt someone can do such a bot. Even as a human, I get to like 10-15hp, and save myself by using a certain skill, using certain skill in an unusual order, running away, I don't know.

This is mostly to know if today, the 23th of august (year=2006), it is possible to make a bot able to think? If yes and since the 2 last paragraphs you are like: "Omg, this guy has to get off his bike and learn about programming, what a no life!" then I'm really sorry, I didn't know. If you think it is not possible, then my point is: Why arena net could have thought wilderness was a bot if he was soloing stuff? Do soloers really need to worry about being mistaken for bots?

I will address your points later, but simply, no it is not possible to make a bot 'think'. It is however possible to have a bot make decisions and act on those decisions in such a manner that even active observation would reveal nothing suspicious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

I'm no programmer, but I would think that making a bot for a game like GW would involve capturing incoming packets and knowing what information is being transmitted. That information can tell the program what enemies are where, what drops to pick up, etc. Then a series of commands tell the character to use which skills in which scenario/mob setup. That's how I'd do it, at least.

Luckily, I am. Capturing packets is a bit tricky to do in Guild Wars, as best as I can remember it is all encrypted (but the last time I looked at that was when I reverse-engineered the move speed/perma regen hacks in the Prophecies Beta/early post release days).

What most amateur botters do is make a script in the language au3 (AutoIt v3), which is really just a scripting language running off of a collection of C++ functions that interface with the Windows Application Program Interface (API). This does not give them access to packets, or allow them to look into the memory of the client, but it does enable them to read pixels off of the monitor, and send keyboard/mouse movements. These sorts of bots are amongst the most harmless, as they are often simple, limited in functionality, and require use of your mouse and keyboard (ie, you cannot surf the web while the bot is running).

Alot of those functional limitations are removed when people switch to a program which hooks itself into the memory of Gw.exe, which allows them to directly call functions native to Guild Wars, and read variables in real time. Thankfully this requires more technical knowledge then your average teenager has, and is easily detectable. (Or, at least it should be - GW does not check for memory hooks, like D2, WoW, and so many other games do!) The bots which you see captured in the picture below use such a technique:

After I took that picture I was inspired to hunt down the script they were using, and see what sort of botters ANet was having to compete with. After around an hour, I found what I was searching for, and it was laughable. I obviously wont go into details of how to obtain this script here, as it would do nothing but worsen the problem (though there is something to said about making the problem SO bad it MUST be addressed).

The script was the most advanced and capable of several available at a free-ware website distributing a program that used a memory hook and the LUA scripting language to allow amatuers to make their own bots. It was capable of farming several locations (Droks, Elona, and Gates of Kryta appear to be the most common places for botting), and demonstrated some (ultimately weak attempts at) randomization.

Every time the bot walked out from Droknars to Talus, it always went to an area within the box inclosed by the points (-160, 10843) and (-150, 10883). The actual destination was randomized evenly, so each point within that box has an equal chance of being the destination. This bot also makes no checks to see if it is near the destination before it tries to walk to it.

If ANet wanted to get a list of botters together for their next mass ban, a damn good start would be watching people who path out into Talus Chute using ONLY those points for many runs a day, day after day. Also, having the server check if you were, say, next to the Armor Crafter when you began pathing to the exit (something thats impossible to do on an unmodded client, due to line of sight).

Of course this is not a long term solution, people would use different scripts, different programs, etc. But the simplest way to combat botting is through reaction: as most, commonly used, bots are publically available ANet can simply find a weakness and detect it. After that is done, it is feasible to make the move to pro-active efforts, which is where you try to find closed-exploits, bots and programs which are NOT available to the public, and you assume you are unaware of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

people making that statement are not thinking, are botters, or just plain bandini for brains.

*ok botters here is exactly what we are looking for in a bot so you can avoid doing any of the above to avoid being detected*

/total complete bandini brains (bandini-the finest name in fertilizer)

Your premise is right, in this explicit situation your logic is flawed.

While technical specifics of bot combation techniques should be left obscured, the simple truth is that to obtain many of the things which people like to have (15k armor, a shiny weapon or two, etc) you have to farm. Farming is what bots do, and its by its current nature a repetitive, nigh mindless task. And this is only aggrivated by the fact that bots farming gold (as most bots farm gold, not rare drops) causes inflation and drives up the prices of the things which everyone likes to have.

It is only common sense that if ANet has a policy of 'farming for 6+ hours a day 5+ days a week = ban' it should be publically known.

As the OP brings up, many (I would say most) people who are chronically ill will take refuge in online games, often playing them to excess - and I say this because I include myself in those numbers.

I have no doubt that if not the OP, then many other people, have been wrongfully banned. Case in point, a friend of mine was banned for saying something to the effect of "lol virgoods sucks" (virgoods being an ingame gold distributer). He contacted support about it, and got some bullshit answer back about how they agreed the banning was in error, but were unable to restore his account until the week long ban had run its course. The spam bot he was mocking continued to advertise in (pre zaishen) Tombs for a good couple of weeks.

Combine all this with the lawsuit pending against NCSoft for having a company policy AGAINST deleting bots on the Lineage games (for purposes of profit), and I can only come to the conclusion that ANet closes botting accounts to cause botters to buy new accounts, and generate more revenue... not as a deterrent to botting itself. [again, why I favor ANet just selling ingame gold and or items in their store over this current policy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Response

Wait, how do you know so much about this sort of thing!?

That answer your question?

PS: Oh, and Star Force IS a joke, and no, no it is not a funny one.

sabretalon · Aug 30, 2006, 10:00 AM // 10:00

In game yesterday, I was doign a short chest run outside jade flats. Did several runs then went back to guild hall. A little later I got a whisper that simply said "Hi" from someone I did not know! I said Hi back but had no further response?

I did not talk to anyone on these runs and saw no one in the outpost before I run out, if it was a friend they would have said more and it was not a guildie either.

I had read this thread before and wondered if it was a reaction to what was being said in here? i.e they talk to you to get a response, if you respond then they don't monitor you any longer. No response then they monitor your actions a little longer.

Some of my guildies have become paranoid because of this, they have other accounts and from time to time they swap money from one account to the other. This normally is them handing over large sums of gold, logging off their account, logging on their other account and then collecting the gold! Now that could be seen as money laundering, since no items were traded!

I do also think, like someone else mentioned, ANET ban accounts but yet all they do is buy a new account and they are up and running again. Therefore more revenue for ANET.

It is a tough call for ANET and I don't think anyone here disagrees that something should be done about the bots and gold sellers! The main issue is the banning without proper evidence, how they get that evidence is the problem. If they rely on people "observing" then you get such a small amount of people caught but a large probability of them being wrong! They can use a software solution to search for 3rd party programs, this would detect a larger number but also have a large probability of being wrong! ANET are exposed to high probabilities of being wrong, whichever way they choose to go. That is their risk and if they look at it and can find a simple solution then all the better. Having a go at them is your choice and in a lot of cases people who have experienced their "support" first hand will know how well ;p it is run!

Put yourself in the same situation as ANET, and think, what would you do if faced with the same problems?

If they wanted to, they could get rid of the gold botters quite easy! They could sell gold cheaper than they do! Take away the supply for it and earn money themselves. They won't do that because it would just throw the economy ingame and items will cost millions to buy. Yes some items are getting that way at the moment, but they are rare and the market for them is small and you have to have somehting to aim for!

Personally I think that banning is the right way to go about it, but they just need to make sure they have the evidence.

Priest Of Sin · Aug 30, 2006, 02:30 PM // 14:30

I've been molested by Anet before (Items Removed), but never banned... When I farm, personally, I go on auto-pilot with my mind, i block out all the chat, and turn off the sound (put on some Rammstein) and go slaughter trolls and stuff. I can kinda see how I would look like a bot from a distance, because i go through the gate, to the merchant, to the storage, back out the gate (as i'm sure most of us do).

Anyway, you should Email ANET and ask for PROOF that you used a bot. Ask for the time, date, location, ect. that you were observed using a bot or exhibiting bot-like behavior, then when they pull some "We can't do that" BS, go sue. Or something.

/signed (if only this was a pettion to get this poor person's account re-instated)

PRIEST HAS SPOKEN

Eviance · Aug 30, 2006, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Gus is a new one to me...

Anyways, I too hope you saved those emails so that you can rub them in their faces! And I too would fight for it....

I think ubermancer posted the most completely intellegent post I have seen in here and I agree that their banning of botters is likely for further profit rather than to clean up the game. I too have see that line of bots running in and out from point A to B and back... And they are all still there! I've had some guy wisper me over and over for days on different accounts about virgoods (I WAS IN THE GUILD HALL!). Finally I told him that he and his company could either stop messaging me or I would report them.

The fact is even if they do ban these gold farming bots - unless they are just your typical one person didn't know bots were illegal "blah blah" then I am willing to bet that by now they have well over enough money earned from farming and selling on ebay that they could go out and buy more accounts to cover the one lost... Hell for every ONE account that they lose to banning, I'm almost willing to bet that they can afford 3-5more!
So I guess until Anet comes up with some fool proof way to stop botters from even being able to enter the game, then banning is netting nothing but trouble since they can't seem to ban the right ones -_-

natuxatu · Aug 30, 2006, 03:05 PM // 15:05

I'd be so angry if that happened to me but in al honestly I probably wouldn't have it in me to fight them.. maybe i would try to have one of you guys fight them for me

Its just scary that it can happen to anyway. That being said if they want to stop 3rd part programs the FIRST place they should do it as is Elona or Dronkar or what not. It's foolish in my opinion for them to do it randomly all over when it's so clear what's going on in those farming spots.

Gwmaster · Aug 30, 2006, 03:35 PM // 15:35

i hope some from anet will say something in this thread...cuz this is scaring me because like Priest say, i too put myself offline and put music on wen chestrunnning/farming and i dont want to be banned for no reason because i missed a "hi".

Hyaon · Aug 30, 2006, 03:46 PM // 15:46

So that's who those randoms whispering once and never replying were....

*looks around paranoid*

King's Spectre · Aug 30, 2006, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyaon

So that's who those randoms whispering once and never replying were....

*looks around paranoid*

I would hope that if a Mod is PM'ing you to see it you are a bot that it would be "god" colored or something. I can easily see how I'd look like a bot - zone in, click one the merchant, click on the door. I could also easily miss a PM if it's in the middle of a battle.

Total Rogue · Aug 30, 2006, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

In game yesterday, I was doign a short chest run outside jade flats. Did several runs then went back to guild hall. A little later I got a whisper that simply said "Hi" from someone I did not know! I said Hi back but had no further response?

I did not talk to anyone on these runs and saw no one in the outpost before I run out, if it was a friend they would have said more and it was not a guildie either.

I had that happen too! (also yesterday)

he/she said "hi" and i said "hi" back... but then there wasn't a reply for a few minutes until i asked "who are you?" and then it kinda devolved into nothing - the person claimed he/she didn't exist or something... i got a good laugh out of it, but it was still freaky and i never found out who the person was.

wilderness · Aug 30, 2006, 04:23 PM // 16:23

No further response as of yet.

I have a copy of all emails. I have just sent them a copy of the one that I posted earlier in this thread that clearly states they will unlock my account.

I sincerely doubt that saying "Hi" is something A.Net would do to check for a bot. I recieve many PMs, mostly I think due to Items I am auctioning on guru, that I completely ignore. I know there are many other traders who do this also.

Maybe this coupled with other checks, but still, I know exactly what I have andhaven't done, and anything that A.Net could witness me doing that would seem automated would have to be based on a massive assumption.

I'm really quite bemused with the way they are treating this situation.

ubermancer · Aug 30, 2006, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by King's Spectre

I would hope that if a Mod is PM'ing you to see it you are a bot that it would be "god" colored or something. I can easily see how I'd look like a bot - zone in, click one the merchant, click on the door. I could also easily miss a PM if it's in the middle of a battle.

Mod's can choose to speak in a Violet color.

calithratheheala · Aug 30, 2006, 11:44 PM // 23:44

The exact same thing happened to me! I ran GuildWars with nothing running and I don't use any kind of that stuff... I would never wanna run the risk of wasting 1000+ hours... I got the same message. Extremly frustrating!

I can't find the support e-mail adress any help?

wilderness · Aug 31, 2006, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by calithratheheala

I can't find the support e-mail adress any help?

http://www.guildwars.com/support/

Follow the above link.

tuna-fish_sushi · Aug 31, 2006, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Oh man i really gotta stop running with those bots looking like im cool ><

Also if Anet start to do those random checks like pming you "hi" then waiting to see if you respond, then what will happen if they do it while your afk? or if your on dnd? what would be the point of this if the bots could just go dnd mode before they start botting? And if they do get banned they can say some guy and his friends were spamming them and it was very annoying...