Curse

Batou of Nine · Aug 24, 2006, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Oh FFS!!!

ANOTHER mistaken banned account by Anet. I cannot fathom the amount of innocent people who have been banned because of Anet's "assumptions". In EVERY posted/quoted email from Anet, they admit it was an ASSUMPTION based on behavior observed...

...That is UTTERLY ridiculous. Now 700+ hours of farming @ 6 hrs a day average spans across about 116 days. Admittedly, that is a long span of farming as an individual. Despite that fact, Anet neglected to offer ANY kind of proof whatsoever, such as the dates or span of time that they were observing his account, offering instances of specific repeating behaviors, or even specific times that he was observed making suspicious actions.

All too often we hear these stories, and i shudder at the day i farm for a couple days straight in an effort to get FoW armor, only to be banned the next day because Anet simply thinks i'm a bot. Like the many thousands of you out there, i am a legit, clean player who NEVER breaks the EULA using pure common sense! I can honestly say, if i ever get perma banned, and they refuse to lift the ban, i will bring it to the courts. i payed for the game, i follow the rules. For them to take away the use of something i payed for out of suspicion is again, completely ludacris.

The way they go about this is comparable to cops putting some kid in jail cause he looks like a thief, while offering no other reason, no other proof, without FINDING any proof and without first listening/asking the kid. Reasonable suspicion ONLY works if you have some degree of visual/audible proof. Without such a thing, if an action is taken, cops are reprimanded...

Anet, get your act together. If you cannot do it correctly, hire someone who CAN. I do admit, Anet in some cases comes through and actually helps mediate the community by keeping real botters out. But so many stoires like these, makes me wonder...

My personal experience thus far and currently is just as dissapointing and i pretty much don't ever hold out hope that they can help me anymore these days.

Cheers.

gasmaskman · Aug 24, 2006, 01:18 AM // 01:18

File a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.

http://www.bbb.org/

It might not do good, but it might be able to get you unbanned, if you haven't broken any of their violations (as they have NO physical proof that you were running anything, unless of course you were).

Dirty Panda · Aug 24, 2006, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

Just try not to do anything..... robotic like.

no dancing as an assassin

Cancel Skill · Aug 24, 2006, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by gasmaskman

File a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.

http://www.bbb.org/

It might not do good, but it might be able to get you unbanned(...)

I think you haven't read all the replies, but it's okay, it's a bit long to read. The guy got his account back.

I read everything you guys wrote and I have a question: How is it possible to make a bot able to solo farm? I have to say I know only some bases in programming. I think any type of solo farming needs a human controller. Spawns often change each time you exit a town or outpost. I thought a bot was like: go there, then do that. get drops then go back to town. rinse and repeat.

But how can you tell a bot to: Use prot spirit before it flashes, so if it gets interupted, you can cast it again without dying. Don't use Hb if you have only 1 or 2 foes attacking -> Mending will heal you enought. If you use Hb, you may get out of energy, and those 1 or 2 foes could kill you.

I mean, this may look stupid, but if I could be able to get a bot able to solo stuff as well as I do,(Sf, Uw, Fow, Giants, Bosses, Desert, and some others) I'd get it. I'd buy another Guildwars, run the bot, let it farm, transfer the good items and money to my account. If they ban my "bot" account, haha okay, thx. I buy another Guildwars, run the bot, let it farm, etc. I'd really do it(I would not really do it, read till the end please), but I really, really doubt someone can do such a bot. Even as a human, I get to like 10-15hp, and save myself by using a certain skill, using certain skill in an unusual order, running away, I don't know.

This is mostly to know if today, the 23th of august (year=2006), it is possible to make a bot able to think? If yes and since the 2 last paragraphs you are like: "Omg, this guy has to get off his bike and learn about programming, what a no life!" then I'm really sorry, I didn't know. If you think it is not possible, then my point is: Why arena net could have thought wilderness was a bot if he was soloing stuff(He said he was mostly soloing the FoW)? Do soloers really need to worry about being mistaken for bots?

Silver_Fang · Aug 24, 2006, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cancel Skill

I think you haven't read all the replies, but it's okay, it's a bit long to read. The guy got his account back.

I read everything you guys wrote and I have a question: How is it possible to make a bot able to solo farm? I have to say I know only some bases in programming. I think any type of solo farming needs a human controller. Spawns often change each time you exist a town or outpost. I thought a bot was like: go there, then do that. get drops then go back to town. rinse and repeat.

But how can you tell a bot to: Use prot spirit before it flashes, so if it gets interupted, you can cast it again without dying. Don't use Hb if you have only 1 or 2 foes attacking -> Mending will heal you enought. If you use Hb, you may get out of energy, and those 1 or 2 foes could kill you.

I mean, this may look stupid, but if I could be able to get a bot able to solo stuff as well as I do,(Sf, Uw, Fow, Giants, Bosses, Desert, and some others) I'd get it. I'd buy another Guildwars, run the bot, let it farm, transfer the good items and money to my account. If they ban my "bot" account, haha okay, thx. I buy another Guildwars, run the bot, let it farm, etc. I'd really do it(I would not really do it, read till the end please), but I really, really doubt someone can do such a bot. Even as a human, I get to like 10-15hp, and save myself by using a certain skill, using certain skill in an unusual order, running away, I don't know.

This is mostly to know if today, the 23th of august (year=2006), it is possible to make a bot able to think? If yes and since the 2 last paragraphs you are like: "Omg, this guy has to get off his bike and learn about programming, what a no life!" then I'm really sorry, I didn't know. If you think it is not possible, then my point is: Why arena net could have thought wilderness was a bot if he was soloing stuff? Do soloers really need to worry about being mistaken for bots?

Actually, using logical statement ofcourse.

A simple bot is go there do that and repeat. But what we talking about isnt simple bot that repeat order, we are talking advance bot that using logical statement to determine what skill to use.

You dont make the bot to think, you insert simple logic statement to make the bot to determine which skill to use. Like a normal procedure and a interupt call, the normal procedure will rince and repeat but if certain criteria met, they will execute the interuption call. They wont act as good as human does and adapt all situation, that why people revise and tune the bot 'AI' or logical statement.

An experience Soloer or a soloer that do the same farming again and again for a lots of time would likely develop a pattern, maybe not the exact same pattern everytime, but similar. That pattern can misinterpret as a bot action.

The only limitation on bot is, how hard is certain criteria to be defined, they wont know what to do if a special situation occur, like he suddenly mapped to another place(this was used to find botter in another game, warp the bot to another place and see it reaction, better than trying to chat with him), another method is to empty the area or spawn some mobs in the area and see it reaction, of course, the bot can log off. But if the person in question keep log off everytime you 'trick' it, then they have reason to suspect it is a bot.

arcanemacabre · Aug 24, 2006, 02:15 AM // 02:15

I'm no programmer, but I would think that making a bot for a game like GW would involve capturing incoming packets and knowing what information is being transmitted. That information can tell the program what enemies are where, what drops to pick up, etc. Then a series of commands tell the character to use which skills in which scenario/mob setup. That's how I'd do it, at least.

Alias_X · Aug 24, 2006, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solar Light

Lol.... When you can figure out a way to run GW without a OS, then you can claim Windows does not interact with GW

1. Windows OS is a thirdy party in relation to GW

2.Windows interacts with Gw

so dont argue about this silly point.

Windows doesn't get picked up on Norton Antivirus because apparently it isn't coded similarly to a virus. The program he used does.

IrishCatholicNewYorker · Aug 24, 2006, 02:18 AM // 02:18

lmao no dancing like an assasin ohhh and thnks for not closing this post unienaule I think this is important for people to see

EDIT: Due to my mild dyslexia lmao

Silver_Fang · Aug 24, 2006, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alias_X

Windows doesn't get picked up on Norton Antivirus because apparently it isn't coded similarly to a virus. The program he used does.

Do you still not understand? Norton or anykind of AV can capture false positive result.

A-Net have no way to know what you have installed on YOUR computer. They cannot install any scanner program on YOUR computer without notifying you.

The interaction of said program and GW are probably using the standard windows function to minimise or hide if any interaction between them occured. And i doubt said program will interact with GW.

A lot of legit program have been picked up by Norton(BTW, Norton is not the end of all virus AV) or any AV software.

How do you know said program is programmed like a virus? Are you the programmer of said program?

Cancel Skill · Aug 24, 2006, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Thanks for the information Silver Fang! Now I know I really have to worry, all I do is soloing the same things. I guess I need to try pvp.

Silver_Fang · Aug 24, 2006, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cancel Skill

Thanks for the information Silver Fang! Now I know I really have to worry, all I do is soloing the same things. I guess I need to try pvp.

Actually, i dont think you need to worry about it. It happens when it happens and you have no way to prevent it happens if it really happens. So, no need to worry.

there are lots of farmer and only few(compare to the total number of legit farmer) of them have been banned.

lol, you know what im talking about? And actually, i used way too much actually in my posts.

Oh, isnt american use the innocent until proven card?

Osirus · Aug 24, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

I too was banned for no apparent reason. Anet claimed that I was running a bot, when I wasnt. Im just like the guy that started this thread. On the day in question, I farmed for about 3hrs, I didnt use the same route, I didnt use the skills in the same order. But during those 3 hrs their was a period of an hour to an hour and a half were I just left my char standing in town, or in the area I was farming, because I had some work to do, and its a pain to restart guild wars on my pos laptop every single time. Im still in the process of trying to get my account reinstated. Ive been sending messages to the support team trying to get my account back. Im really upset, I spent hundreds of hours, I farm so that I can get better equipment and progress through the game, and pvp better. I farm so that I can become a better player. I just realized when reading over the Guild wars box/book. Anet states they dont reward players on how long they play, but how well they play. How can I become a better player if Anet wont let me farm to my hearts content? The Rules of conduct and EULA dont state that farming is illegal. Im just really disappointed right now.

bart · Aug 24, 2006, 03:18 AM // 03:18

heh its quite funny really that ppl who farm have to resort to talking to themselves or dance in order to not be recognised as bots and thus not get banned. Sounds like Anet is creating a bunch of crazy ppl who talk to themselves and dance around for nobody to see

Feminist Terrorist · Aug 24, 2006, 03:53 AM // 03:53

So...standing around is botlike behavior and subject to banning.
Farming is botlike behavior and subject to banning.
Apparently, from other things I've read, selling things for a large amount of ingame cash is also suspicious and subject to banning. At this point, simply playing the game could get you banned. Pretty sad.

I'm really curious about how much Anet can actually detect in individual's computers. Say, for example, my firewall minimizes my game screen without warning several times a day, interrupting my play. Since that is technically a third-party program, am I subject to the ban stick?

I want to laugh at the ridiculousness of the paranoia, but I can't. It's all too real.

Curse You · Aug 24, 2006, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver_Fang

A lot of legit program have been picked up by Norton(BTW, Norton is not the end of all virus AV) or any AV software.

It's true. My anti-virus seems to hate Gamespy (for playing SWBF, BF2) and always gets anoyed with it.

About this whole thread and bannings in game.

This game is owned by ArenaNet. None of the players own the game. The servers for the game are run and maintained by ArenaNet, and as such they own all content of Guild Wars.
Attempting to file a lawsuit based on a change in game, or banning of your account is like trying to sue the Government (only the government is not as powerful in reality).
ArenaNet IS the authority in the Guild Wars world, you cannot do anything about that.

Now the thing that should be fixed to help prevent unjust bannings, is the implementation of a warning system.
1)First Warning - A message pops up when you log in, warning you.
2)Second Warning - You are banned for a week, warning messages are displayed.
3)Permanent Ban - You have obviously not stopped by now, and so even if you are not a bot, you should have figured it out.

The numbers would not disapear over time; if you get a 1st warning in January, then get suspected again in December, it would go to a 2nd warning. This way botters couldn't temporarily "retire" an account.

Also, accounts that recive a 1st or 2nd warning would not be able to trade for 1 week afterwards (to stop botters from "killing" the account).

Opeth · Aug 24, 2006, 05:22 AM // 05:22

[rotfl mode] is vent or ts a 3rd party program?? [/rotfl mode]

Mr_eX · Aug 24, 2006, 06:33 AM // 06:33

This is really beginning to get ridiculous.

I appreciate that AN is trying to eliminate botters and enforce their rules, but this is too much. There have simply been too many false bannings.

Personally, I'm not worried about getting banned myself. My playtime is at inconsistent times throughout the week, I play and have played nearly all of the PvE/PvP modes in the game, and my in-game wealth is consistent. What I am worried about is all of the negative PR that this brings to AN, which will in the long run hurt sales and the size of the playerbase, which will ultimately shorten GW's lifespan.

AN's banning criteria and attitude towards its paying customers who may appear to have broken a rule needs to change. They're not running a bank or a stock exchange, it's just a video game. A potential botter or even a real botter is not a criminal.

KurtTheBehemoth · Aug 24, 2006, 08:20 AM // 08:20

This is why i have 4 accounts. Arenanet better not delete one of them or i shall send 12 Wammoes to Gailes avatar and hump her into oblivion.

Guardian of the Light · Aug 24, 2006, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Well spotting a bot is hard because well after you do things over and over you don't want to put in the ffort to make each run unique, so ya you look like a bot.

wilson · Aug 24, 2006, 08:40 AM // 08:40

all in all i believe it's a good thing a-net is so determined to get rid of the bots. but i think, banning someone just on the way he moves or behaves in an outpost, without even trying to whisper to that person, isnt the right thing to do.

when im farming in an explorable, i zone to the closest outpost, walk up to the merchent, go to my storage to store my crafting materials and off i am again, to the portal. i myself always click on the signs next to the portals, because im too lazy to walk all that way over and over again. :P so, yeah, this might look actually look like a bot is running my account, when im just too lazy to do it myself. but walking in a "mechanical" way is not a reason to ban a person. a moderator who sees strange behaviour like that, could at least try to pm the player and start a conversation. im pretty much sure theres no bots around who can have a discussion with you about a news related subject or whatever you want to ask that player.

you shouldnt get banned just on an assumption, thats just plain wrong.