Curse

kaya · Sep 01, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

Same thing I said about 12 pages back.

Anet has started up a bad trend that's only gonna get worse over time without strong guidance.

IF they must sell things, sell things AWAY from the game. Soundtracks, tee shirts...something.

But if I see PvE things there, then its time to move on. Because its not about the game anymore. I'd rather pay a monthly fee.

that is a bad trend...
i also think that the high price for these unlocks could be a bad trend too.
not that i want to buy UAS, but i still cant believe they'd charge this much for these.

Gigashadow · Sep 01, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

This was a great move.

A couple people who were thinking about playing GW to join us in PvP, but didn't want to deal with all the unlocking stuff, are now interested in playing the game.

Epinephrine · Sep 01, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

I don't understand how anyone can say this is a bad trend.

We wanted this; the price is a bit higher than some might like, but say you make eight dollars an hour, and just bought Nightfall. You love it, and want to PvP more, but don't want to spend forever to get there. For forty dollars you can get full core+prophecies unlocks. You don't need to buy prophecies to do this - you don't need to spend the money twice; sure, you don't get to explore Tyria, but you can still buy other chapters to explore, and if you feel like PvEing you can buy Prophecies later anyway. But for 5 hours of work (pay) you have access to your whole set of skills from 6 classes, which would take probably 200+ hours of play to grind out, and the forty dollars to buy the game anyway. For a PvPer entering in Nightfall or Factions that's a sweet deal.

I am glad for it, it sounds pretty good to me - though I'd like it if it came with the rune/item unlocks, as you aren't PvP ready till you have those.

(Note - I actually like my unlocking, and have full unlock from combined PvP/PvE - I enjoy both, so I'm not a PvP-only person making that remark - but I can totally see why people would want this, and it hurts nobody. It is 100% voluntary, gets you nothing you can't get with a few hundred hours work in game, doesn't alter the economy and really doesn't affect anyone except the player. Good move ANet!)

kaya · Sep 01, 2006, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

[B]
people are bitching about how long it takes to unlock only 1 chapter so how do you expect someone new to unlock 5 just to play?

how do i expect him to play. we'll if he really wants to, he can fork out $160 extra bucks for the needed skills. *rollseyes*

...And all you do is bitch about peoples concerns!

i say enough

Henchman · Sep 01, 2006, 05:27 PM // 17:27

The fact that this thread reached 20 pages in less then 24 hours, and the numerous posts by Gaile Gray justifying the addition, indicate that there is a huge amount of controversy among this issue.
While many may agree that this is a legimate option, many others such as myself beleive that this is a line Anet vowed never to cross.
Realisticly, aquiring skills the regular way is not that hard- players who will buy are the skills are those who are lazy and rich.
On the other hand, those who object to this update are people who earned their skills by being good players.
Anet decision is leading them down a path which the gaming community will consist of more lazy rich people (undoubtfully many of them 'noobs'). Skillfull players who object to this option and earned their skills traditionally will abandon the game and not purchase Nightfall (such as myself, and friends and many of the posters in this thread).
Thus, the GW community will consist of more 'noobs' and less mature players.

Phaern Majes · Sep 01, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Eh, personally why buy a game if you don't intend to play it the way it was meant to be played? Online RPG's have always been grinds. Whether its for xp, gold, items, skills whatever. Dunno I enjoy actually earning the faction or gold to unlock stuff. Makes me feel that my hours of playing aren't completely pointless.

To each there own. I did read some of the reasons people posted for this, and its reasonable. As stated somewhere in this 21 pages, by chapter five there will be over 1000 skill and someone just picking up the game will have a tough time catching up. Or for you pvp only players, meh who needs ya :P j/k

Sir Skullcrasher · Sep 01, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

I think this is great for those who don't have time to cap all the skills available out there. But it's like a double-edge sword, the downside is that almost everyone now has a chance to get all the pvp skills.

Count Feanor · Sep 01, 2006, 05:44 PM // 17:44

I think it's a great idea. I've unlocked and capped tons of skills for every profession except for ranger. I think I'll purchase the unlocks for that class. Yeah, sounds good and will save me tons of time for unlocking.

Yichi · Sep 01, 2006, 05:45 PM // 17:45

its a double edge sword because it should have been available from the beginning or not at all. your "Casual" pvp players that didnt have the time to aquire full skill unlock now can, but for anyone who wanted to be a casual pvp player in the past year and a half, well heres a shaft for ya.

while after thinking about it and reading some justifiable opinons online and talkign to friends, i do agree with this, just not how it was implimented. and in some ways i can see where it is comparable to buying things from other sites, etc... to try to just "jump" ahead of the curve, but the only difference here is that buy a pvp player buying skills from the online store, it doesnt affect the economy of the game or the state of the game whereas buying gold would. if u think prices are inflated now, imaging what they would be if they allowed you to legally purchase gold...

Loviatar · Sep 01, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaya

how do i expect him to play. we'll if he really wants to, he can fork out $160 extra bucks for the needed skills. *rollseyes*

...And all you do is bitch about peoples concerns!

i say enough

EXACTLY.

you left off the only other alternative which is spend 200 dollars and the amount of time it takes to unlock the previous 4 chapters as well as the one he got.

do you know anybody who has the time to unlock 5 chapters (my example) worth of skills?

for someone who enters the game a few chapters in the future can you see them buying 4 additional chapters and spending the unlock time on them?

on the other hand they may buy the game and the skill lines they need to add to what they have.

smitty-gw · Sep 01, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Overall, a good idea and a smart one for Anet.

Straight PvE'ers are unaffected. They enjoy playing to unlock skills and won't buy it.

Straight PvPer's are blessed. They have no desire to grind out all skill unlocks. They choose to buy or not determining whether they can "afford" it.

The price seems high because they are not shafting those who already own Prophecies and already put the time in to unlock. The newer pure PvP players are still basically paying for Prophecies w/o actually getting the game. Noone feels slighted, and most important, it is OPTIONAL.

Only PvP grind-tards are against it. They do not want to see a level playing field. That would mean skill could actually be the determining factor, a dire prospect for many.

I also think its a measuring tool for Anet on what direction to take this game and future games. If they make a bundle off of this they will assume that PvP is the absolute way to go. If it fails, they might think otherwise. It's a win-win for them as opposed to guage what the masses really want by listening to the rants of the few on a forum that makes them no money.

The bottom line is still, "money talks". They didn't make this game because they know people like to play on-line games.

Think about it and enjoy!

Epinephrine · Sep 01, 2006, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henchman

Realisticly, aquiring skills the regular way is not that hard- players who will buy are the skills are those who are lazy and rich..

Rich? It's one day's pay at 5 dollars an hour (and some of us make more than that, too...). And if you don't care about PvE, it's the same cost as buying the game, so instead of paying 40 dollars for a game you don't care to play and spending 200 hours getting the skill, spend the money on the unlocks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henchman

On the other hand, those who object to this update are people who earned their skills by being good players.

Predjudiced much? I'm a good player, and I don't object.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henchman

Anet decision is leading them down a path which the gaming community will consist of more lazy rich people (undoubtfully many of them 'noobs'). Skillfull players who object to this option and earned their skills traditionally will abandon the game (such as myself, and friends and many of the posters in this thread).
Thus, the GW community will consist more 'noobs' and less mature players.

No it won't. "skillful players" won't care - it doesn't affect PvE in the slightest, so PvE players could care less, and skilled PvP players will welcome the influx of players this might bring, and may even opt to save time on chapters themselves. Only those who've somehow convinced themselves that skills are "earned" and value their achievements in game because of the time invested (hello Cognitive Dissonance) will care.

I figure the only people threatened by it are those that derive their idea of self worth from mundane accomplishments like having unlocked skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty-gw

Only PvP grind-tards are against it. They do not want to see a level playing field. That would mean skill could actually be the determining factor, a dire prospect for many.

Hehe, I was trying to be polite about it. Yeah, those who can only win because of better gear objected to PvP equipment. Those who can only win because of having elites unlocked railed against unlocking. Those who only won in games like D2 and WoW by having "godly" gear and being max level keep whining about the level cap.

The accessibility of top level play is the principle on which the game was founded. Skill, not hours spent. This is FINALLY being done, and is a good move.

As for those who worry because now others will have unlocks...grow up. Bullying was never cool, and wanting to beat people because you have better skill unlocks is essentially that - it's like the moronic twinking at Ascalon arena. Learn to play the game, enjoy the competition. You'll see better games, with opponents sporting more varied skills possibly - since you can unlock everything you can try everything.

Xenrath · Sep 01, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

They should just release a "stand alone PvP only edition" of each game, for slightly lower pricer than the regular edition. In other words, it comes with no PvE content at all, just the PvP side of things, fully unlocked.

If that's what this is equivalent to, then it's overpriced (same price as regular edition but without all the PvE content and just paying to skip grind)

If you still need to buy Prophecies as well as the skill pack (not sure if that's the case) then it's even more overpriced.

Personally I'm just waiting to see what starts to get offered up in the store next, if it ends up like Oblivion where things like S.F. and new items/equipment etc. become a thing of the past unless you pay for them.

Sea Edge · Sep 01, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

people are bitching about how long it takes to unlock only 1 chapter so how do you expect someone new to unlock 5 just to play?

Why do you need to unlock all the chapters? You can use only 8 skills.

Xenrath · Sep 01, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

The accessibility of top level play is the principle on which the game was founded. Skill, not hours spent. This is FINALLY being done

That brings up the question, why was grind introduced in the first place then? If it was truly supposed to be about the skills why was there any need to grind for faction/gold-to-unlock skills? Even more appropriate if the original form of the game had all skills available for PvP to begin with? But was then changed to make the grind happen... and then sell back that original functionality? I guess the question is, if it was really just about the skill/s why weren't all the skills made available to start with, instead of adding the grind element to it, then charging to remove it?

kaya · Sep 01, 2006, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

EXACTLY.

you left off the only other alternative which is spend 200 dollars and the amount of time it takes to unlock the previous 4 chapters as well as the one he got.

do you know anybody who has the time to unlock 5 chapters (my example) worth of skills?

for someone who enters the game a few chapters in the future can you see them buying 4 additional chapters and spending the unlock time on them?

on the other hand they may buy the game and the skill lines they need to add to what they have.

For somebody to come into the world of GW PVP at chapter 5 and be competetive (as is what they're trying to accomplish at with this update), he would have to buy chapter 5 ($40), then purchase the skill unlocks for the core professions (+$40) and of course he can't do without the chapter 2,3 & 4 professions which he doesn't have yet (+$120), oh ya and since he bought the skill unlocks for the core professions he'll be buying the skill unlocks for the 6 new professions he just purchased (+$60), and he's still left with the time to unlock the skills for chapter 5... unless at that time they have available the skill unlocks for chapter 5, then he'll just buy them (+$20).

Now let me reverse that question on you... Do you think that people will actually fork out the money ($280) just to be competetive in a silly game? I'll help you with that... Yes, there will be those people that will.. but i can bet you that the number won't be high. I'll bet it won't even be as high as the number of people there is out that that would rather unlock they're own skills. But... it's up to them.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have this option... but the price is ridiculous.

Mouser · Sep 01, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Upon further reflection, I've decided that it's not a big deal, and it actually furthers the philosophy of GW as being a "no-grind" game, and enhances the commercial viability of the game.

I'm paraphrasing Smitty a bit here; as we know this game has a few distinct player bases:

PvP-only players
PvE-only players
Hybrid Players

The PvP-only players want to be able to use a particular build out of the gate. The prebuilt PvP characters are of limited use with the builds that are being used today. So, before these "Skill Pack" sales, a PvP-only player was forced to grind through the PvP arenas in order to get enough Balt's Faction to unlock the skills and items that they need to be effective. We all know that regardless of the build you use, you need practice and a thorough understanding of the build to be effective. The skill packs provide the tools, but the player still needs to learn how to use the tools. Impact? Negligable.

The PvE players aren't really impacted, apart from being able to twink a character with a particular build right out of the gate (since the skill vendors make any unlocked basic skill available.) You still have to cap elite skills, which is really where the game is. And personally, if there is a skill quest in Prophesies that allows me to earn a particular skill I want, I'll go do the quest, even if I can just buy it at Drok's, because I want to save the gold. Impact? Negligable.

The hybrid player plays PvE with the intent of capturing skills for PvP. This player is interested in playing both aspects of the game. For the most part, the hybrid player is going to play the game like a PvE player, and cap the skills required for a PvP build. This kind of player has probably been playing for a while, and can already field the build required for a particular PvP engagement, as well as being able to use the build effectively. Impact? Negligable.

We all have to remember that we don't pay a monthly fee to play GW, and I sincerely doubt that just selling periodic expansions is covering the total cost of development. Remember that even in the subscription-based games, you still have to buy the expansion, PLUS the monthly fee. My friend who plays WoW spends over $220/year to play the game on a single account ($12/month, plus about $45 for the base game, $35 for expansions.) We're getting GW for a song, in comparison. The extras that are available in the on-line store are enhancements, but none of them are a REQUIREMENT to continue to play the game. You can just plop down your $45 for one of the chapters, and never spend any money again. You don't NEED the extra music. I bought it anyway, because I happen to like the music written for GW.

So, I've decided that if selling these skill packs allow Anet to continue developing GW, I'm all for it.

-M

Loviatar · Sep 01, 2006, 06:28 PM // 18:28

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaya

but i can bet you that the number won't be high. I'll bet it won't even be as high as the number of people there is out that that would rather unlock they're own skills. But... it's up to them.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have this option... but the price is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

i agree completely on that and will even guess your low figures are optomistic.

as for the price i read a Gaile response that you may need the game to buy the unlocks which would make that price even worse.

last post Gaile said she would check to see if the chapter was needed as well as the unlocks.

that would bring it up to 80-90 dollars a chapter or,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

400-450 dollars

how does that tickle your fancy?

Solange · Sep 01, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Could all of this have been avoided if they just increased the amount of faction you get in PVP battles...or hell why not just give everyone unlocks on PVP characters? I LIKE FREE!!!! thats why i'm playing Guild Wars in the first place, no monthly FEE, FREE TO PLAY!!!!....MORE FREE PLS!

The hardcore players with more time to play Guild Wars will always be able to get things faster than casual players, why not just speed that process up of acquiring faction and unlocking all skills on your account by double, tripple, quadruple the amount of faction earned in PVP battles...

Scrap the idea exclusive skills for classes in each expansion and start having those new skills up for sale as well on the NPC trainer in towns who sells skills...new elites i don't know how much trouble it would be to add bosses in the original game to acquire these ---> Entice PVP players to buy expansion packs by adding new PVP gametypes like Factions has alliance battles

A.NET had to have known in the future where these exclusive skills for each expansion would lead to new players having a hard time to get involved with PVP...they could have gone the FREE route but I guess everyone just throws its a business excuse and that makes it alright for them to be going this $40.00 unlock route.

New players are STILL going to have to buy the first game, buy factions, buy nightfall AND then buy unlocks for each expansion if they want UAX in PVP to start off with...thats like $150 for all 3 games, $120 for 3 game unlocks...how enticing is that to the new player wanting to get involved in PVP right away?

aron searle · Sep 01, 2006, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

This is FINALLY being done, and is a good move.

This is something ive wanted

But im a little bitter that its come so late, and its a high price. Personally im not that against it (other than the cost), but im not buying it because i have something like 95% of non elites unlocked and 30-40% elites unlocked, it wouldnt feel like a sensible spend. If it had come sooner, or id know it was coming id probably not bothered to grind skills (which is how it felt), instead waiting to buy them, but shiz happens.

Personally i dont see it as much as of incentive to new players, everybody(well "them" people) will feel that unlockes really help you be competative, whether you want to argu if thats correct or not dont matter, because thats how they will feel.

Hey buy guild wars, you dont need time just skill

Dont they sell unlockes though?

well yea...

So i can buy the game then spend another x bucks to be competative, ermmm no thanks.

Wrong or right thats how people will think about it, how many and weather it will actually matter one damn i have no idea (neither do you).