Curse

Yunas Ele · Sep 01, 2006, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuixotesGhost

So if a player didn't buy Prophies and only bought Factions can they still buy the unlocks?

If that's the case:

Awesome ANet, freaking Awesome.

Hold on a second. I'm confused here. Some people are saying what the above quote says, you can buy the skills from a campaign you don't own and be able to use them. If thats true, then thats great and I take back anything negative I've said before. I mean then I can just buy the 2 nightfall characters for $20 instead of shelling out the full $40 or $50 for nightfall since I have little to no interest in the PvE side of the game.

However, I think the above is a misunderstanding. Instead I think you must first purchase the campaign, which comes with NOTHING unlocked. From there, you can either unlock it by faction or pve OR pay for ANet to unlock it for you. So basically you'll be paying $40 to first buy the game, and then another $40 if you CHOOSE (its optional) to come fully unlocked, which is quite different the the above paragraph's understanding.

Correct me if I'm wrong. If the first paragraph is right then thats great but I think the second paragraph is what it actually is.

Mercury Angel · Sep 01, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

I don't care about UAS being in the store. In fact, I think more choices is better.

However, the one thing that puts me off about this is back when UAS was a check box during preview events, if I recall correctly, it was made out to be pretty clearly, and very strongly, that we'd NEVER see UAS again.

2 chapter previews later, and we never saw UAS. Which, well, wasn't nearly as bad as having to play PvE over just a weekend each month to grab your skills just to be able to PvP, or use very crappy premade templates, due to the implementation of the faction unlock system.

But, having been around for the UAS/UAX threads that always turned into disasters and flamewars, eventually becoming a forbidden topic on many forums, I can't help but think back to the absolutely adamant sentiment expressed that we'd never see it.

And if it's going to be that way, it'd be my strong preference that we bring back UAS for preview events. For those unfamiliar with how it worked, on the PvP character creation screen, you had a check box that said, "Unlock all skills for [date] BWE" or something to that effect.
After checking it, all skills became usable as long as you had that check box ticked, but they were NOT permanent unlocks. Without the check box, you lost access to all the skills you didn't have actually unlocked.
The first 2 and a half days, in my experience, people devote almost their entire time to playing what they're good at to farm faction so that they can afford to unlock the skills, runes, and weapon mods to [get a more whole sense of] the new professions. The end result is that testing of the new professions' skills is far more limited than it should otherwise be.
Though, it could just be that testing the skills is only a secondary effect of the preview, and it's more of a teaser.

Even so, if the stiff refusal for UAS is gone, I don't see how it'd be much of a problem on any level, since the system has been available before the release of Guild Wars.

Back on topic, I'd like to reiterate that the actual sale of the skills is a positive, in my opinion, and I say kudos if they manage to sell it to anyone.

*Edit: Wording change. I definitely didn't mean competitive, which is obtainable by simply farming 10k balth's before the event, and playing a few hours to finish wrapping up the rune and weapon mod unlocks. What I'd meant to convey was really getting a feeling for what the new professions are about, how they play, and what they do, which takes a more complete sampling of the skills than you can get without some heavy faction farming. I personally unlocked slightly over half the skills, and had the entire third day to play around with, but I also had a lot more time to play over the weekend, and a lot of experience faction farming. Well, that, and the medallions really helped.

kh1ndjal · Sep 01, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

its clear the unlocks that cost money dont make u abetter player, so the other thing that remains is choice: you NOW have the choice whether to unlock with money or not, one less reson to complain about (oh, i wish i could buy them, oh i wish i could unlock them in pve, oh i wish i could do both, oh, i wish i u couldnt do both) see what i mean, just do what suits you best, again, theres one less barrier

Tegami · Sep 01, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

This is an incredibly stupid idea.

1. It makes players like myself who spent 200 hours unlocking stuff they will never use feel stupid. Did I enjoy playing that time I spent? Yes, but part of the enjoyment was working towards a difficult goal that can now be bought for 40 bucks. Players like this are your core anet, and your pissing them off. Unless nightfall is really amazing, there will never be another generation of players who play guild wars for 1000 hours.

2. It sucks more people out of the already empty proficies PvE system. Have you seen how hard it is to even form a complete group in some missions? Now people don't even need to get skill caps.

3. It sucks PVP players out of Profices PVE. It was easier to unlock alot of skills by playing though PVE Proficies than PVP, plus the players actually learn how to use the skills rather than in Factions where they are thrust upon you. (Why do you think there are so many shitty assassians and rits)

It doesn't cost you anything to have players NOT play does it. The skill buying just shows you don't really care about the people who play your games anyway. A quick 40 bucks or 10 bucks. Once again insted of giving players what they want you give them what they don't.

I've already ordered nightfall, but unless it is truly an incredable game, it will be my last Guild Wars.

ValidusMonachus · Sep 01, 2006, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Anyone can buy the skills. It takes a skilled person to use the skills correctly.

Gaile Gray · Sep 01, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValidusMonachus

Anyone can buy the skills. It takes a skilled person to use the skills correctly.

Well, there ya go! Much more clear than how I tried to say it!

Stockholm · Sep 01, 2006, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Just cancelled my Nightfall pre-order.
Whats next weapons and armour for sale?

Loviatar · Sep 01, 2006, 03:21 PM // 15:21

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tegami

This is an incredibly stupid idea.

1. It makes players like myself who spent 200 hours unlocking stuff they will never use feel stupid. Did I enjoy playing that time I spent? Yes, but part of the enjoyment was working towards a difficult goal that can now be bought for 40 bucks. Players like this are your core anet, and your pissing them off. Unless nightfall is really amazing, there will never be another generation of players who play guild wars for 1000 hours.

complete bandini as you will never see one of these skill buyers using a single bought skill in your precious PVE

Quote:

2. It sucks more people out of the already empty proficies PvE system. Have you seen how hard it is to even form a complete group in some missions? Now people don't even need to get skill caps.

and how many threads have we had about people spoiling missions because they were pvp people only there to cap a skill and then left the party short?

remember the threads saying how much better it would be without the group you want in?

breaking-benjamin · Sep 01, 2006, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Gaile, two questions:

1- If I only have Factions, can I still buy this pack?
2- This packs unlock the skills 100%? or you have to buy the pack then unlock the skills.

Thanks

Celab · Sep 01, 2006, 03:27 PM // 15:27

If you have a part time job or something, ie at £4 a hour, and all the skills cost £25 (i think anyway) means you only have to work for 5.25 hours to earn the money to get all the skills, now, theres 450 skills, and some of them are elite. I'm not doing the majority of the math but i believe those 5 hours of work will be less time spent in RA or anywhere else to get and unlock all of those 450 skills.
Sure, you may want to earn your skills but i think if you want to get in there without having to spend hours and hours to unlocking them you shouldn't have to.

Now then, wheres our UAR

SpeedyKQ · Sep 01, 2006, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by supaet

This is bad, they finally start selling something that can be obtained in game with time and effort.

QFT. This is a line that just shouldn't be crossed. I fear the slipperly slope.

And the way skill trainers work, this most certainly DOES affect PVE! Imagine two people who buy Prophecies and want to play MM's. One buys the necro unlocks and the other doesn't. One gets all the good skills right away, the other doesn't get Blood of the Master until Kryta and Animate Fiends until the desert. Do you think one person might have bought themselves just a little bit of an edge for ten bucks?

Loviatar · Sep 01, 2006, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by breaking-benjamin

Gaile, two questions:

1- If I only have Factions, can I still buy this pack?
2- This packs unlock the skills 100%? or you have to buy the pack then unlock the skills.

Thanks

SIMPLE ANSWER

1 YES

2 THIS IS A TURNKEY READY TO PLAY PACKAGE

YOU DO NOT NEED TO BUY THE GAME FOR THAT CHAPTER
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO UNLOCK A SINGLE SKILL YOU PAID FOR.

THIS IS TO AVOID HAVING TO PAY FOR A CHAPTER AND TO AVOID THE TIME SPENT UNLOCKING THE SKILLS

shadowfell · Sep 01, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

I am very dissapointed that arena net did something as greed driven as this.

I have spent 11 months in this game unlocking the most I could for my account through pve. I was prepping pve born, pvp chacters. I ended up going uax 11 months into the game and with only 135k faction spent before capped. That is a lot of work. That means that I unlocked the majority of runes, skills and upgrades through pve.

I think skills, (note that they're called skills), should be unlocked through either pve or through pvp faction. I think its utter bullshit that you can plop down a credit card and wahlaa, pvp ready account. Is this just some sort of attempt to undercut the ebay market? Who cares about the people who buy into guild wars in chapter 5 and 6 needing to buy skills, you think they really will even want to buy back 4 chapters and try to get into groups within ghost town outposts and mission areas.. Will GW even still be around then? Why cant those people work through the chapters, just like we have.

Will this affect capping groups?

What is this gaile said about this here being what people have been asking for? I thought people had been asking for reconnects, and improved storage, auction house. Where are those, or shall I say, how much EXTRA are those.

Better yet, gaile, how many skills have you capped on your level 7 ranger. I bet you know exactly how this feels right!

And.. Stockholm: I do not blame you. I'm not even bothering until after reading what is said on the forums about it anyhow, but yah.. I fear that is next. Weapons pack skins, fow armor.. any new storage, etc. It will be all pay for. Wait and see. What is even funnier is they will turn around and say; "But you asked for it!!"

breaking-benjamin · Sep 01, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Ty, but I would like to know Gaile's confirmation.

Loviatar · Sep 01, 2006, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedyKQ

QFT. This is a line that just shouldn't be crossed. I fear the slipperly slope.

And the way skill trainers work, this most certainly DOES affect PVE! Imagine two people who buy Prophecies and want to play MM's. One buys the necro unlocks and the other doesn't. One gets all the good skills right away, the other doesn't get Blood of the Master until Kryta and Animate Fiends until the desert. Do you think one person might have bought themselves just a little bit of an edge for ten bucks?

considering they said it would NOT be available in PVE i dont see the problem .

they simply do not have those bought skills available at the skill trainer for the PVE character to run up and grab.

Avarre · Sep 01, 2006, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedyKQ

QFT. This is a line that just shouldn't be crossed. I fear the slipperly slope.

And the way skill trainers work, this most certainly DOES affect PVE! Imagine two people who buy Prophecies and want to play MM's. One buys the necro unlocks and the other doesn't. One gets all the good skills right away, the other doesn't get Blood of the Master until Kryta and Animate Fiends until the desert. Do you think one person might have bought themselves just a little bit of an edge for ten bucks?

Firstly, I think most people will accept that the complexities of PvE, such as they are, don't really exist till post-ascention. A perceived edge pre-desert is so minute to be nonexistant - you're not gaining an edge against anything but the missions, which aren't an obstacle in any cirumstance and in a way that does not block other players.

Secondly, how is that 'edge', any different from the vast majority of PvE characters belonging to people that have played through the game once before?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tegami

1. It makes players like myself who spent 200 hours unlocking stuff they will never use feel stupid. Did I enjoy playing that time I spent? Yes, but part of the enjoyment was working towards a difficult goal that can now be bought for 40 bucks. Players like this are your core anet, and your pissing them off. Unless nightfall is really amazing, there will never be another generation of players who play guild wars for 1000 hours.

Don't try to speak for the entire demographic. I've spent well over a thousand hours gaining xp and gettings skills on my mesmer, and I don't agree with you.

And since it hasn't been said in awhile :

People asked for this, Anet didn't add it purely because they thought it would be a profit engine.

Loviatar · Sep 01, 2006, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by breaking-benjamin

Ty, but I would like to know Gaile's confirmation.

possibly this thread will help a bit

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10037365

Murchad · Sep 01, 2006, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

a PVP VERSION with only the skills already unlocked and ready to use but maybe a bit cheaper.........say 10 dollars cheaper than the regular version?

well they gave it to you including the 10 dollar discount

now stop bitching because they gave you what you asked for in pvp

You don't seem to understand the gripe, here. It's $40 ON TOP of buying the chapter. It isn't an ability to buy a PvP version of the game since they won't offer it until several months after the release of the game. If I could just spend $10 to access and UAX a single new class, I'd be happier than a pig in slop. I really don't see how spending $90 in order to play older classes is going to appeal to a casual PvPer who just picks up Nightfall or Factions, though.

The problem, as I see it, is that the two different facets of this game appeal to completely different gamers. I can't speak on what appeals to a PvE player because I'm not one. PvP appeals more to the FPS and RTS crowds. These players typically don't like spending extra money in order to play a game they've already payed for. They don't like unlocking, they just want to get on with competing. We aren't the PvPers from other ORPGs that typically like to get the best gear and gank noobs. We're the guys who like to duke it out in the trenches in order to complete the objective. Personally, I could spend 6-8 hours in a row playing a game where there's no reward other than winning. This is the kind of gameplay that was supposed to lure in the FPS and RTS crowds. Unlocking ruins that. Skills are the tools we use to fight. However, they are also supposed to be a reward. There's a huge part of me that rebels against that idea.

I'm pretty much done buying new chapters of Guild Wars. That's not a threat or some cry for attention. This is a fact. I'm done with unlocking, I refuse to do it anymore. I'll sit back and play what I've got until the metagame becomes so unbalanced against the older chapters that I'm unable to play any of the builds required (which will probably only take a few months after Nightfall is released). I am part of the crowd that Anet was trying to court during beta. I am different from most of you because I don't enjoy PvE. I hope I was able to shed some light on why people like myself complain about Guild Wars. It's a great game, really, but it could be so much better. Unlocks are a barrier, not a reward for PvP players. We shouldn't have to pay more money than PvEers to play the part of the game that recieves significantly less attention from the development crew.

Gli · Sep 01, 2006, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

considering they said it would NOT be available in PVE i dont see the problem .

they simply do not have those bought skills available at the skill trainer for the PVE character to run up and grab.

So there are now 2 levels of unlocking?

Unlocked by playing and available at every skill trainer for every character.

Unlocked by paying and only available for newly made PvP characters.

How do we tell the difference? A dollar sign in the interface?

breaking-benjamin · Sep 01, 2006, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

possibly this thread will help a bit

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10037365

I still dont know if a person that only have Factions can buy this pack.