Curse

Minus Sign · Sep 01, 2006, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Roflmfao

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus Icon

Hold on, are you PvPers so dim that you can't see a rip-off when it's being waved in front of you?

Yes. Yes they are. And so is every1 else who is applauding this online store. Its not "mandatory", its just giving a clear advantage to players who are willing to pay more. Its not a violation of EULA, its just doing something Anet said they would never do (unless...skills aren't content either now

).

Welcome to Pay to Upgrade folks. Enjoy it and remember:

YOU ASKED THEM TO DO IT TO YOU!

TheMosesPHD · Sep 01, 2006, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by milan

Having had some time to think this over I can see the many pro's to adding this option, a few things still confuse me though.

Although gaile did give us an analogy about why this wasn't offered sooner (the borrowing the car at 10) which I feel wasn't relevant to this in the slighest for reasons I hope you all find obvious, I can't help but wonder how this doesn't make the faction system obsolete and puts some players at a disadvantage.

Take Billy and Johnny. Billy is a player who owns both chapters, he's working away at gaining faction to unlock his skills, would dearly love to UAS but doesn't have a CC or can't afford the $40, so he continues trying to unlock what he can.

Johnny has played the same amount of time, owns both chapters but he's got his Amex card all bright and shiny, UAS in seconds.

Now who's at a disadvantage here, and why?

As for the faction system, it was put in place so that pvp players could unlock the skills/runes/mods they wanted without pve, so it was clearly obvious that Anet wanted players to gain the skills through game play and not UAS immediately. Now that Anet is offering the option for UAS surely they have changed their mind on this and faction for skills could be removed?

I'm aware that this is currently only being offered for chapter 1 skills however I don't think many would argue with me that it will be offered for further chapters once that Anet feel that enough time has passed since release of said chapters.

Well this feature is mainly here for Johnny Latecomer. For most people who already have both chapters, and have had for a long time, this feature isn't worth buying at all, because whether or not they PvP, they probably have a lot of the useful skills unlocked already, either from faction or from buying/capping the skill in PvE.

Johnny Latercomer though is already at a disadvantage just because he hasn't played as long, doesn't have as many high lvl characters/gold, doesn't know as many players, and doesn't have runes/mods unlocked. With the skills unlock feature though, he has an opportunity, for a fee, to try and catch up with the people who have been playing for a long time.

Though he still won't have many advantages like the ones I listed earlier in this paragraph, he will have all of the basic Guild Wars skills, which will give him a jump start and let him learn how to use skills at a little faster rate than that of someone who has to wait and unlock something to then try it out and learn how to use it.

Though he'll still have a lot of catching up to do with the rest of the veteran gamers, he'll have a solid foundation to start from, and won't feel overwhelmed.

With all this said and done, dear ol' Johnny Latecomer ends his day with a smile

The release of buyable unlocks will always be delayed, probably by about a year, so that there still will be a use for Balth Faction. People will still be in a race to unlock the good new skills, and use them against the other teams as soon as they can, but for a newcomer, unlocking all of the old skills is like running a race that's already been decided a year ago.

lyra_song · Sep 01, 2006, 03:26 AM // 03:26

We should reiterate every 10 posts to everyone that

THIS OPTION WAS IMPLEMENTED BECAUSE PLAYERS WANTED IT

I think the ONLY thing we should be arguing over as a community is PRICING.

Its waaaaaaay too expensive.

Gun Pierson · Sep 01, 2006, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Well done A-net, I'm expecting a lot more where that came from. Would like to buy that perfect +5 20% Gold Platinum Wand from the store too instead of waiting for months hoping one will eventually come on the market. Paying with real cash or ingame money, I don't care, I just want that wand and a pimp cup (divine symbol) thank you

I prefer giving it to anet instead of giving it to some elitist (buy/resell) who would exploit the situation.

Nobody forces you to buy anything. It's just another option available in GW. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

lg5000 · Sep 01, 2006, 03:33 AM // 03:33

The thing is, it's not way too expensive IF it means you don't have to buy the (more) pve side of things by buying the actual chapter first.

Murchad · Sep 01, 2006, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

Well this feature is mainly here for Johnny Latecomer. For most people who already have both chapters, and have had for a long time, this feature isn't worth buying at all, because whether or not they PvP, they probably have a lot of the useful skills unlocked already, either from faction or from buying/capping the skill in PvE.

Dear ol' Johnny has to spend $90 to be able to use all those Prophecies skills. If that's not a turn off to new PvPers, I don't know what is. They're basically shooting themselves in the foot since you have to buy the $50 game in order to actually use the skills you unlock for $40.

And no, this is not what PvPers have been asking for since the beginning of the game. We've been asking for UAX immediately. We don't want unlocks, we want competition. We don't want to spend $50 for 2 new classes and more skills to unlock. Just give me the option to unlock a class and all of its skills for something like $10 and I'll be happy.

TheMosesPHD · Sep 01, 2006, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thallandor

Now my question more rather than those who try to defend (6) by saying it makes no difference if you decide to buy UAS or not, is that how many of us would have actually bought GWP in the very beginning had the online store been there with the character slots and UAS or whatever will be added later in the first place?

Though some may argue that these are requests made by the player community i wonder and marvel at the marketing scheme that Anet adopted over the year and it scares me to think that all this have infact been planned all along by gaining a large player base and and throwing the store in after hiding behind its fan base who supported them.

Well at least by their current explanation and reasoning for released the UAS, the UAS wouldn't have been available even if the store was there from the start. Guild Wars is about the skills, so part of the fun is the race to aquire the new skills and use them either against AI monsters, or other players in PvP. For a newcomer though, there is no one to race against; most of the community has already run the track and gotten all of the skills. Also it's a futile race if you're running a year behind everyone else.

Where is the fun in racing all by yourself? Some people push themselves to the limit in the real world and do it all alone, working to improve their minds or body, and they are successful with that. But this isn't a real world achievement. It's a game that's supposed to be played for fun and entertainment.

The goal of the Guild Wars business is to increase it's customer base, and keep that customer base as long as it can. If some new guy shows up and can't ever catch up with the majority of the community, it's not going to be very fun, because there won't be many people around to baby-sit these newcomers while they play through for the first time, what you and I have all played through countless times. This new person will eventually regret buying the game, and will not buy further games to be released.

Back last November I came across a game called Eve-Online. This was the first time I had heard of it though apparently it had been out for quite some time. I really liked the way the game played, and all of the amazing features in it. It was a game I could really get into. The problem, though, was that I was pretty much alone in my noobness while I was trying out the 14-day trial. I didn't know who or where to ask my questions, and was flying around the entire time watching all of these longstanding veterans fly around in their superships, zooming past my cute little pod flyer. I really liked the game, and still do, but I had come into it to late, and saw that I would be spending most of my time just by myself in that huge world playing the endless game of catch up.

Yes, Guild Wars could've planned this sales strategy from the start, and I wouldn't be surprised if they did. A good business looks way ahead. But at the same time, all it's really doing is making the customer happy, which is what consumer's are always looking out for when they buy.

Newcomers still have a lot of catching up to do. In PvP alone the strategy has been evolving since the beginning, and ranks are climbing higher and higher. I still think all PvE rewards should be done with hard work and dedication, without any interferance from store-bought boosts. For PvP however this new feature is just a small token of welcoming to new players, and is also a profitable way to keep the servers up and running.

I don't feel we're being decieved or lied to, or being forced in a corner by product limitations. If none of their tactical gains are inherently evil, thinking about how far in advanced they planned their marketing strategy doesn't make me feel sick at all. I think they've done a wonderful job building and maintaining their business, and wonder what of this they planned, and what of it was simply tossed into their laps.

Avarre · Sep 01, 2006, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

Its not "mandatory", its just giving a clear advantage to players who are willing to pay more.

How so? The vast majority of PvP players at upper levels are completely UAX already, this simply helps people get to a point where the builds don't restrict them, only their current player skill. Having skills unlocked is no advantage when you should have them anyways... or are people afraid this will let people get Drain Enchant to remove their RA mending? Oh noes!

The people who don't purchase UAX are at a slight advantage as they've used more skills through PvE and PvP progression, giving them a much better understanding. As TheMosesPHD said, this helps give a solid base for new players to work up from, rather than the huge task of capping all the useful skills, especially as more chapters become available and people may wish to purchase skills from a previous chapter rather than buy the game and play through it.

<--- Fully UAX via 1 character in PvE, and I don't feel 'robbed' or anything...

GJ anet at making it easier for new players to jump into PvP, which tends to push new people away.

TheMosesPHD · Sep 01, 2006, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murchad

Dear ol' Johnny has to spend $90 to be able to use all those Prophecies skills. If that's not a turn off to new PvPers, I don't know what is. They're basically shooting themselves in the foot since you have to buy the $50 game in order to actually use the skills you unlock for $40.

And no, this is not what PvPers have been asking for since the beginning of the game. We've been asking for UAX immediately. We don't want unlocks, we want competition. We don't want to spend $50 for 2 new classes and more skills to unlock. Just give me the option to unlock a class and all of its skills for something like $10 and I'll be happy.

Of course. it's still just an option. He doesn't neccesarily have to buy anything but one game. But however, if the newcomer feels this will help him even the playing field, I don't see it affecting me, and don't see it affecting the game balance, so more power to him if he chooses.

I still like the idea of no instant UAX as soon as the new skills come out. Part of pulling ahead of the other players is decisively choosing which skills/elites are best to unlock first. You've gotta try and gauge the potential of a skill before you're able to test it out personally. I think this helps the diversity of the game and helps keep new builds popping up over time when people finally get around to unlocking an elite and try it out. Practiced Stance hasn't been used very mainstream until just recently, yet it's been around since the beginning, and I don't think it's had any major (if any) buffs/nerfs the whole time. I like the idea of players not completely knowing whether or not a skill is worth it until they take a chance and test it out themselves.

Gun Pierson · Sep 01, 2006, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

Welcome to Pay to Upgrade folks. Enjoy it and remember:

YOU ASKED THEM TO DO IT TO YOU!

Thank you, I'm happy to be part of it. At least the option is there. How many software houses listen to their playerbase like a-net I ask you? None. So stop b1tching and enjoy the game. Nobody forces you to buy it.

*lemming* · Sep 01, 2006, 03:54 AM // 03:54

It's more expensive than I liked, but Anet,

I <3 you

Sol_Vie · Sep 01, 2006, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Really? You guys need to read the fineprint. Yes, skills when unlocked unlock for both PvE and PvP chars. However, ANet, in their nonignorance (and likely they heard it from the concerns of the players because they do listen) thought ahead! These skills, when bought, don't unlock on PvE chars.

It is a bit pricey, but I'm fine with a little more grinding and keeping my money. Once again, it's an option.

And TheMosesPHD, thank you for being a source of common sense.

Minus Sign · Sep 01, 2006, 04:01 AM // 04:01

If you didn't see the advantages to UAS/UAX, you wouldn't be supporting it in your post, now would you Avarre. And I won't go into detail about how this is unfair/unbalanced/poorly ethical in Guild Wars Guru ever again, especially not in another person's thread. When I do--even managing to keep the conversation relatively troll free despite community attempts to thrash me for nay saying the online store--threads tend to be locked, posts deleted, and the entire issue swept under the rug.

So mostly I'm just going to watch, enjoy the show, and lmao in your faces as people realise just how deep that stick got shoved up the orifice of their--Anets; you have surrended your say in the matter--choice.

No trolling Avarre. Just restating Fact: You asked them for this. And though it has no direct impact on you atm remember that when it does--and it will--you applauded it now.

[email protected]: I'm not complaining. I'm give over on complaining. If you re-read, your last sentence only restated the part of my post that you didn't quote.

Like I said, I'm just here to enjoy the show. I guess the real question is, why are people so upset that someone thinks this is funny?

Boofhead · Sep 01, 2006, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehlemming

It's more expensive than I liked, but Anet,

I <3 you

I'm sure part of the cost is that you can buy UAS for prophecies without buying prophecies.

Phoenix Ex · Sep 01, 2006, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Its really not that serious, having a bunch of skills doesn't mean that its going to be used right.

Now we need options to buy full time access to Uw/Fow/The Deep/Urgoz and CE dances and pre-order collectors and event items so that people can be on equal stylish footing as other

.

Energizer Deth Buni · Sep 01, 2006, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

RoflmfaoYes. Yes they are. And so is every1 else who is applauding this online store. Its not "mandatory", its just giving a clear advantage to players who are willing to pay more. Its not a violation of EULA, its just doing something Anet said they would never do (unless...skills aren't content either now

).

Welcome to Pay to Upgrade folks. Enjoy it and remember:

YOU ASKED THEM TO DO IT TO YOU!

If enough people ask to buy FOW armor in the on line store, will ANET do it?
I mean it doesnt hurt anyone else its just a skin, it gives no unfair advantage in how you play the game? Lets all rally and ask for FOW armor to be in the on line store... I d pay 10 bucks a char for full FOW armor...

Murchad · Sep 01, 2006, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

I still like the idea of no instant UAX as soon as the new skills come out. Part of pulling ahead of the other players is decisively choosing which skills/elites are best to unlock first.

That may be fine for some, but there's plenty of us out there who really don't want to unlock anything at all. I want to be able to read a skill description, test it out, then use it in a build... not grind RA for an hour just to get a non-elite skill. It's this exact reason that large droves of PvP players fled Guild Wars within the first 2-3 months after release. Unlocking is just a terrible mechanic for a competitive game. Competitions are supposed to be about player ability when all other variables are the same for both sides. I don't have the time to unlock more classes. This game is supposed to be both casual and competitive. Unlocks are the antithesis of both.

Gun Pierson · Sep 01, 2006, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Energizer Deth Buni

If enough people ask to buy FOW armor in the on line store, will ANET do it?
I mean it doesnt hurt anyone else its just a skin, it gives no unfair advantage in how you play the game? Lets all rally and ask for FOW armor to be in the on line store... I d pay 10 bucks a char for full FOW armor...

Are you that cheap dude?

I would pay up to 100-200 euro to get that perfect platinum wand. They can use that money on servers or development or something.

TheMosesPHD · Sep 01, 2006, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murchad

That may be fine for some, but there's plenty of us out there who really don't want to unlock anything at all. I want to be able to read a skill description, test it out, then use it in a build... not grind RA for an hour just to get a non-elite skill. It's this exact reason that large droves of PvP players fled Guild Wars within the first 2-3 months after release. Unlocking is just a terrible mechanic for a competitive game. Competitions are supposed to be about player ability when all other variables are the same for both sides. I don't have the time to unlock more classes. This game is supposed to be both casual and competitive. Unlocks are the antithesis of both.

Hmmz. Instant gratification, eh? Where's the fun in that? You may think you want everything at once, but if your wish really came true, you'd get bored and unsatisfied very quickly. Within days or at the most a couple weeks you'd be asking, "what's next?", only to find that there is nothing else left to be had. As a human being you will always be searching for something more. It's just plain unhealthy to spoil yourself with everything all at once.

I'm gonna call the thread dead, at least for me, and go to bed. I'm gettin tired. thx for the conversations everyone.

tomcruisejr · Sep 01, 2006, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Are you that cheap dude?

I would pay up to 100-200 euro to get that perfect platinum wand. They can use that money on servers or development or something.

yea, they need to get rid of err7s/lags asap and profits from sales may help hasten solving the server problems.