Curse

Clawdius_Talonious · Sep 20, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

but you can't say it's not new PvP content.

He can say it, he won't be correct, but he can spout fallacy if he wants to.

Mordakai · Sep 20, 2006, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clawdius_Talonious

He can say it, he won't be correct, but he can spout fallacy if he wants to.

I stand corrected!

Former Ruling · Sep 20, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Factions wasnt any more PvP based than Nightfall is turning out to be...

What did Factions get PvP?
4 Guild Halls
Skills
Few maps in the arenas
Alliance Battles
The two missions, Quarry and the other one*

*Note, Jade Quarry and that other mission are not PvP to me. PvP is Player vs Other Players, those missions have OBVIOUS PvE goals even though you CAN technically kill the other players in the mission, this isn't your goal and really amounts to little in getting to these goals.

Nightfall?
4 Guild Halls
Skills
2 New Arenas
*I can pretty much tell you they'll be a few arena maps too, I bet ya*
HvH*

*As it is described now. As they are promoting it, it is PvP with HenchWay (except customizable henchies). I can call it PvP as long as the GOAL as a Player Vs Player oriented goal - no matter how many NPCs are involved.

Fluffyx · Sep 20, 2006, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khift

It's ridiculous to think that Factions IS geared more towards PvP. PvP was given three piles of yak dung that appeals more to PvE players than to PvP players.

This isn't just my opinion. This is the opinion of the PvP community as a whole. Go over to Team-iQ or the Rifts forum and ask about it - you'll get the same response. The PvP community has a distinct hatred for FA, JQ and ABs because they don't meet those three tenets. They won't like HvH either for the same reasons.

The only purpose FA, JQ, ABs and soon HvH has is to try and pull PvE'ers into PvP which interestingly enough miffed a bunch of PvE'ers too. PvE'ers see those formats as PvP. PvP'ers see those formats as PvE. In truth they're neither, just sewage.

Well then god forbid if the Khifts three T's say you're not playing pvp. I guess all you people in FA, JQ, RA, and ABs aren't really pvp'ing you're just versing another player but you're not pvp'ing remember that. Khift has spoken.

Yeah, if only this was the true case and not just the ramblings of someone who is trying to make a point that is going nowhere because the foundation of their arguement is just plain wrong. PvP is Player vs Player, if you're fighting another player and not the environment you've got a PvP.

JR · Sep 20, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

I too was slightly dubious about the PvP content of Nightfall. There was a thread I started on another Guild Wars forum quoting Gaile Gray saying that Factions was PvP oriented, and Nightfall would be more PvE oriented. It caused a bit of a stir at the time, and much controversy was raised.Since starting that thread, I have heard a very different and far more promising story...

However, we shall wait and see. I have faith in the Devs to produce something that has appealing features to all.

As for HvH; I see that more as a possible bridge between PvE and PvP, to help more players get into the extensive end-game content that Guild Wars offers. I don't see it as any kind of serious PvP, certainly not meriting a ladder or ranking system. I could be wrong.

Silly Warrior · Sep 20, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Now how much you wanna bet theres going to be new titles for being really good at HvH?

That will once and for all, show whos the most awesome

But seriously, get a HvH title, and you'll probably get more respect, same as a illustrious hero or something. The title will mean alot, unlike Friend of the Kurzicks.

Mordakai · Sep 20, 2006, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

Note, Jade Quarry and that other mission are not PvP to me. PvP is Player vs Other Players, those missions have OBVIOUS PvE goals even though you CAN technically kill the other players in the mission, this isn't your goal and really amounts to little in getting to these goals.

Fort Aspenwood?

Just curious, what if the goal is to capture a flag or kill a ghost. Is that not PvP either?

Tozen · Sep 20, 2006, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Ok, again, let me focus on why Heroes vs Heroes is such a good idea.

1) Many of us who play GW used to play FPS games. In an FPS it is possible for one person to dominate a game because of his incredible skill, whereas to this point this has been near-impossible in GW due to the team nature of the game.

2) ANet responded to this (among other reasons probably) by giving us Alliance Battles and PvP missions where teamwork was not as strongly stressed.

3) However, in those modes noobs and leachers still made it hard to win and people still screamed... so "scrimmage mode" was put into place for testing builds, practicing, and 1v1 "grudge matches."

4) Even so, the GW classes are not balanced for 1v1.

SO, WHAT ANET HAS DONE IS BRILLIANT. We now have a mode that is perfectly balanced (in theory) for players to test their 1v1 abilities.

I'm personally looking forward to this because it really allows for player creativity. While cookie-cutter builds will probably still happen, they shouldn't be as frequently used in this mode as in others. After all, Heroes won't object to you giving them strange bars and they won't yell at you for being an idiot. Actually, I'd be willing to place 100k + millions of ecto that many of the creative builds that emerge in this mode will CARRY OVER into HoH and GvG (no, I'm not being serious about the bet, but you get the idea)

In my opinion, this new PvP is far more "elite" than the PvP presented in Factions because for the first time, individual skill will be more important than team skill.

Sorry if I rambled on!

Clawdius_Talonious · Sep 20, 2006, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tozen

Ok, again, let me focus on why Heroes vs Heroes is such a good idea.

1) Many of us who play GW used to play FPS games. In an FPS it is possible for one person to dominate a game because of his incredible skill, whereas to this point this has been near-impossible in GW due to the team nature of the game.

2) ANet responded to this (among other reasons probably) by giving us Alliance Battles and PvP missions where teamwork was not as strongly stressed.

3) However, in those modes noobs and leachers still made it hard to win and people still screamed... so "scrimmage mode" was put into place for testing builds, practicing, and 1v1 "grudge matches."

4) Even so, the GW classes are not balanced for 1v1.

SO, WHAT ANET HAS DONE IS BRILLIANT. We now have a mode that is perfectly balanced (in theory) for players to test their 1v1 abilities.

I'm personally looking forward to this because it really allows for player creativity. While cookie-cutter builds will probably still happen, they shouldn't be as frequently used in this mode as in others. After all, Heroes won't object to you giving them strange bars and they won't yell at you for being an idiot. Actually, I'd be willing to place 100k + millions of ecto that many of the creative builds that emerge in this mode will CARRY OVER into HoH and GvG (no, I'm not being serious about the bet, but you get the idea)

In my opinion, this new PvP is far more "elite" than the PvP presented in Factions because for the first time, individual skill will be more important than team skill.

Sorry if I rambled on!

^^^
Gets it

EternalTempest · Sep 20, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

My feelings

PvE = Fighting Against NPC/Monsters
PvP = Fighting Against other human players.

Now I do feel there are breakdowns within each group

PvE = Quests, Missions, Co-Op Missions, Exploring, Challenge Missions
PvP = RA, TA, HoH, GvG, AvA, FA/JQ

Now as a casual player that only did PvE, Factions managed to draw me to Ava, FA/JQ and I could see GvG down the road as well as my love of PvE.

From the looks of things, I can see ava/FA&JQ removed and replaced with the Hero's 1v1 (aka alternate 4vs4) which I hope is not the case but it may be. Plus we don't know if there going to change any current pvp formats, I tend to think they will with all the "weekend" events. It screams to me beta testing styles.

Spura · Sep 20, 2006, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Main problem with a lot of pve content and less pvp content is simple. Pve is crappy to play if you don't have really good group. People are tards who won't take you into the groups if you don't fit into healer/tanker/nuker holy trinity. SS necros and MM necros are still permitted. Try to complete orozar quest in sorrow's furnace as an assassin. The whole outpost is full of oro farm tards who only take eles, monks, tanks and necros. I couldn't get a groups in 2 hours. And that is why pve sucks. Can't enjoy it because people won't take you into groups unless you fit specific build for that mission or general holy trinity build.

Vilaptca · Sep 20, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

A note to all. If you report a post for flaming. Be sure you aren't the one inciting it. When you flame someone else, and then they respond with a flame, you are just as guilty as them. Reporting them and asking for their post to be removed is silly.

Also, this thread has turned into yet another PvP vs. PvE debate. Until people learn to keep their opinion on whether PvP or PvE suck to themselves, you will continue to see threads like this closed.