Curse

Pagan Greyfeather · Sep 25, 2006, 02:43 PM // 14:43

We ran into the Sig of Might bug a couple of times. Annoying to say the least. One of our members even suggested we do it but he was promptly shot down and called a bunch of names not repeatable here. (Yes, we are so honorable and noble. Build statues to glorify us please.) Fortunately, we are not very hardcore and just enjoy the competition of a hard fought match so its not that big of a deal to us. I disagree with Gaile that ladder locks during a preview event would lessen the participation (and testing) of new skills. Most of us addicts...er...players are going to be in game regardless and would be much LESS hesitant to GvG if we knew that imbalanced skills and the inevitable lag and err 7s were not going to affect our ranking. In regards to the exploiters, I don't want any solution that will delay Nightfall (darn, that game looks fun) or detract from making sure its as good as possible prior to release. My vote is for public humiliation. Post the Guild names for all to see. And lets face it. If they have to resort to using these kinds of tactics, its probably the only time we will ever hear of them anyway. lol. Peace!

Bastmanu · Sep 25, 2006, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Gaile Grey, you wrote, you use such kind of Week-End to find Exploits and Bugs, allright....

Then give Prizes to people who report Anet as first an Exploit-Bug, and fixed it just after.

Means noone can use this Exploit-Bug, who find the Exploit-Bug is

and you have a real testing Week End.

Misa · Sep 25, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Is Pyrrhus

The guilds that exploited this are going to get knocked back down the ladder because they don't deserve their rating. It's as simple as that. There's still plenty of time left in the season, and the wins garnered from a few hours of exploits are inconsequential compared to the rest of the season. IMO, what Spearmen did during the last preview event doesn't even come close to [sTar] farming rating with this exploit, but that's just me...

Sig of Might IS a bugged skill. Whoever expolited it should be punished.

The D/Mo ladder farm didn't using ONE single skill that is out of their skill description. It was a fair play of Dervish's overpowerness during the PVP weekend.

Yichi · Sep 25, 2006, 06:18 PM // 18:18

This is case point that even if it is a fun season and there is nothing like a championship on the line, any time that something comes out like a beta test weekend or anything else that would affect OPEN ladder play should be done on a locked ladder. This way there is no need to take action for guilds abusing an exploit and affecting the ladder even more.

Ghull Ka · Sep 25, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I'd like to comment on something: Locking the ladder during the Beta Test sounds like a poor idea to me. During the events, we're able to have tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people try out the skills, reveal the exploits, and generally help us make a better game. They get the fun of an early look, and the interest of seeing how things are and, upon release, what they become.

To lock the ladder during an event sounds counterproductive to me. We want and need people playing PvP, and locking the ladder will discourage that.

Hmmm... maybe the answer is some sort of "event ladder" that has no impact on the overal system. So if you find an exploit, good job, but it's not going to give you a leg up on a championship or a fast run for a trophy.

I just don't see where locking the ladder is the best idea, for it seems that the number of people playing will drop dramatically, which means we'll have less testing and less feedback.

I disagree. If you give the PvP crowd a whole slew of new skills to play with, they'll play with them. No other "reward" or incentive to play would be necessary. None of the GvG-minded people I know lose interest in playing GvGs when the ladder is locked. They break out the notepads, cook up new builds, try new things, and new skills.

When the ladder is not locked, people tend to stick to what they know, and what will get them wins. Locking the ladder affords risk-free experimentation, which is something that GvG players who care about their rating can appreciate. Throwing a few hundred brand new skills to experiment with is just icing on the cake.

Please lock the darn ladder when you want us to beta-test new skills. It preserves the ladder and the achievements of those teams that are on it. Your skills will be beta-tested and bugs/exploits will be reported just the same.

JR · Sep 25, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

If you punish for the use of Signet of Might, you are literally talking about punishing hundreds of players. It simply isn't feasible.

It was a beta weekend, a bug was found, big deal. The ELO rating system balances out hiccups like this eventually.

Yichi · Sep 25, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

/agree with JR. It was around for a few hours and towards the end of it, it was basically a race to see who could SoM the GL first. there were literally hundreds of players that would get punsihed by this. I do not think that it will require anything more than the simple fix of the bug, due to the fact it will be treated like spearmen running the d/mo build. they ran it in gvg up to r19. when weekend was over, you never saw them in gvg again. The same thing will probably be true with guilds that used this bug. they ran it for a quick run up the ladder and faction farming for unlocks for ch3.

While i agree with JR that the ladder ELO system will rebalance itself within time, i personally feel, as do many others, that events and such like this that would affect open ladder play (fun season or not) should be done on a locked ladder so that it shouldnt have to rebalance itself.

JR · Sep 25, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

While i agree with JR that the ladder ELO system will rebalance itself within time, i personally feel, as do many others, that events and such like this that would affect open ladder play (fun season or not) should be done on a locked ladder so that it shouldnt have to rebalance itself.

To quote myself from another forum:

Quote:

I never said lock the ladder, infact I completely disagree with that.

Let me explain again:

Think about SB/RI; that got noticed as an overpowered combination of skills because it was ran extensively during the ladder season by guilds farming rating. Had the ladder been locked, players would have had no motivation to run something that is basicly boring and mindless, and so it may never have been fixed.

If you want a game to be extensively tested in a very short period of time by a group of players who aren't gettng paid for it, they NEED motivation. I agree that it is sad when good teams get beaten by bad guilds imba skills, but at the end of the day it is a single weekend. The ladder will balance out by the end of the season, and this will just be a memory.

Locking the ladder would be counter-productive. People would just end up testing new skills that synergize with their builds, running joke builds, or not playing at all. You wouldn't have nearly as many people searching for that one broken skill combination, and then running it into the ground. And the running it into the ground is the seriously KEY thing. In order for the devs to SEE what is broken and why, they need to see it getting played a lot.

If you want a fun weekend with no bug abuse, lock the ladder or stage a mini-event. If you want to actually test, leave the ladder open. It's a sacrifice you have to make for the greater good of the game, that really isn't worth all of the QQ seals getting so upset about.

If you got tanked over the weekend multiple times by Fragspike, Signet of Might or Toxicity builds; your bad. Don't play next time if that bothers you, or you aren't prepared to CONTRBUTE by finding and testing broken skills.

Untill Anet starts to pay outsourced QA staff to test their games, they need to test in events like this (or opening up a test server, but that is a whole different topic). In order for events like this to work, you need to give incentive.

The idea came up of running a very short ladder based event during skill testing weekends, which I almost like. It IS simply going to reward who finds the most broken crap the earliest, which is hugely good in terms of skill balancing. However I can't say I like that idea ethically, but I would be fairly happy with it if the prize was something trivial like a few skill pins. If they got a cape trim or something permenant that would supposedly put them up there with other top guilds I think people would be pretty rightfully annoyed.

Yanman.be · Sep 25, 2006, 07:29 PM // 19:29

I love this thread. Show alll the different problems the GW community has. Learn from them.

Lord Dobo · Sep 25, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tremere

Lmao...

Seems 'someone' didn't get enough fibre in their breakfast cereal this morning

And yeah, it is a good idea, thank you.

Lol, yeah something like that. I've been cranky, I admit it. Your idea is sound, but you can't really judge the effects on this end, all of the ideas whould have to be implimented to really find out, and we know they won't get to them all.

On punishment, I think that it's too late now. Games have gone on and it would inversely punish those who've played since the cheating. The only real punishment you could hand out would be to the majorly obvious climbers and any screen captures specifically showing offenders. Other than that, I say let's drop the past and just reiterate to the devs... lock the ladder or provide some alternative incentive to play. It's only a weekend every 6mo.

Cloudpiercer · Sep 26, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Well this is Anets fix for the problem:

http://www.guildwars.com/support/net...correction.php

I think its a good solution for the problem, I'm still wondering if the guilds that used it are gonna get punished.

Chris Blackstar · Sep 26, 2006, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Anet fixed the problem, why should the guilds get punished for something that was beyond there control, in fact they did get punished in a way, all that lack of effert on there part to take advantage of an unfair exploit, cost them all there points, problem solved.

Just be thankful to all those who stepped up, indentified the problem, reported it, then refrained from using the exploit. Thank You.

reverse_oreo · Sep 26, 2006, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Blackstar

Anet fixed the problem, why should the guilds get punished for something that was beyond there control, in fact they did get punished in a way, all that lack of effert on there part to take advantage of an unfair exploit, cost them all there points, problem solved.

Just be thankful to all those who stepped up, indentified the problem, reported it, then refrained from using the exploit. Thank You.

beyond their control??? are you serious? it was a choice to use the skill, they were not forced to do so. Therefore it was within their control, and personally i think any guild that used it should be banned from the ladder.

viper008 · Sep 26, 2006, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Ladder Correction Made

As you may be aware, we experienced some technical issues on Saturday. Consequently, we need to remove the results of approximately 13 hours of Guild Wars GvG battles that took place between 00:01 AM and 13:40 PDT on Sunday, September 24th. We decided to make this adjustment because the overall tournament ladder integrity was at risk. During a portion of the Guild Wars Nightfall event, a game error appeared that allowed battles to be won unfairly. A large number of the battles that took place during the hours in question were impacted by the error. The outcomes of those battles, if left intact, would have devalued all of the true GvG effort put in by so many guilds this season and would have threatened the integrity of the tournament ladder.

Since the removal of these games would have a mathematical effect on the results of each subsequent match, we have recalculated the point results of all battles that took place past after the reset on Saturday and have adjusted them.

We have an absolute commitment to take whatever means necessary to protect the tournament ladder and, by extension, to protect the results of all the hard-fought battles played. We apologize for any inconvenience that this removal may have caused.

We will continue to remain diligent to assure that a repeat of this weekend's incident does not take place.

Thank you for your understanding,

The Guild Wars Team

http://www.guildwars.com/support/net...correction.php

Kali Magdalene · Sep 26, 2006, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by selber

This is what happens if a PvE-player raises his hands on a GvG-issue. Ouch. Nothing more to say here.

Please don't. My PVP experience is fairly limited (two unrated GvG matches, plus leaving Pre-Searing), and I'm in complete disagreement with Admin's Bane. Exploits are pretty clearly defined. This is pretty clearly an exploit. One is not clever or cool or awesome because he used this broken skill to win; one is simply abusing an unintentionally broken game mechanic.

Chris Blackstar · Sep 26, 2006, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by reverse_oreo

beyond their control??? are you serious? it was a choice to use the skill, they were not forced to do so. Therefore it was within their control, and personally i think any guild that used it should be banned from the ladder.

I would say. learn to read things through, before you comment on them. Beyond there control was the programming that caused the action with in the skill. New skills have been known to act differently then what is discribed in the skill, meaning it was beyond there control to control the reaction, what I am sure they wanted to do was bombard the guild lord with spirits that do 3 times the damage (Spirit pain, painful bond, signet of might), and when it malfuntioned, hey a bonus or bug.

Andro · Sep 26, 2006, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Blackstar

I would say. learn to read things through, before you comment on them. Beyond there control was the programming that caused the action with in the skill. New skills have been known to act differently then what is discribed in the skill, meaning it was beyond there control to control the reaction, what I am sure they wanted to do was bombard the guild lord with spirits that do 3 times the damage (Spirit pain, painful bond, signet of might), and when it malfuntioned, hey a bonus or bug.

I hope you dont mean that...

Doomslay · Sep 26, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Do any of you poor PVPers want some Cheese with your (WINE) LOL poor things

Permasiel · Sep 26, 2006, 02:51 PM // 14:51

DO any of you poor PvEers want some brains with your heads LOL
poor spammers

Yichi · Sep 26, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Blackstar

I would say. learn to read things through, before you comment on them. Beyond there control was the programming that caused the action with in the skill. New skills have been known to act differently then what is discribed in the skill, meaning it was beyond there control to control the reaction, what I am sure they wanted to do was bombard the guild lord with spirits that do 3 times the damage (Spirit pain, painful bond, signet of might), and when it malfuntioned, hey a bonus or bug.

Honestly i wouldnt know where to begin with this, but here goes...

Yes it was beyond their control in the way that the players never ment for it the skill to opperate this way, thats about it. After it was found, according to the EULA, it is to be reported and not taken advantage of such exploit. Those teams knowing there was a problem, continued to take advantage of such problem. They in no way ment to bombard the GL with spirits... that excuse is just ... well ... dumb.

This was probably discovered by accident with someone testing random builds and found that it works on a different npc or player. was probably then thought, hey what if it works on the gl/ghostly.. was tested, worked, mass chaos insued. while was funny to watch some of the gank races on ladder observer, was absolutely REALLY broken and was never ment for players to use it in that way.