Curse

Kai Nui · Aug 14, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

if you haven't beaten the game or don't care if you know the ending, then feel free to read the below, as it may contain some spoilers.

========

Alright, well when I played through the game, I never quite understood why what happened to Shiro happened. So let's replay what happened:

Shiro is told that he's going to get murdered by the Emperor during the harvest ceremony.

The fortune teller that told him the Emperor would kill him has told him things that have become true later, so she's pretty legit.

The Emperor looks like an evil guy.

The Emperor breaks the rules of letting people in with him into the harvest temple.

We see Shiro freaking out because he sees everything adding up.

Shiro kills the emperor because he fears for his own life.

We pretty much witness that he kills the emperor, but we don't witness Archemorous, Viktor, and Vizu kill Shiro -- but we know Vizu "turned the tide of battle" while A & V finished Shiro off.

==foggy area==

We don't know what the emperor was planning that day.

When Shiro died he released the Jade Wind, and we don't know how he did it.

After that he became an Envoy, and we really don't know much about the Envoys really...

==/foggy area==

Then like 200 years later he turns people into afflicted for no reason it seems

He wants to become mortal again because he didn't deserve to die

when he comes back, he's killed again and for some reason he just becomes a normal dead person this time.

Then he's banished to a horrible part of the UW for eternity.

---

NOW, please correct me, but I just don't see Shiro as being such a bad guy. Maybe turning people into afflicted was bad, but I think that most the people he killed were from the government which was pretty corrupt. And somehow the Emperor was so great even though the ministries were so horrible. Well sorry to say, but it takes 2 to tango. The Emperor deserved to die. Too bad he killed Togo, still I just have a hard time seeing Shiro as being bad...

Demesis · Aug 14, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Shiro didn't die because he was bad. He died because of his bad voice acting.

EtherealByte · Aug 14, 2006, 05:32 PM // 17:32

The Old Shiro i have to agree was good. The returned envoy shiro was evil. He did kill without remorse and turned people into afflicted. Sure it was revenge, but you can not take revenge on innocent civilians. I do wonder though if the emperor really was planning to kill him. Macbeth anyone? maybe the fortune teller saw the assasination and shiro's death incident and she told him that he was going to die at the emperor's hand (vizu works and protects the emperor) and he made it come true.

[email protected]

maybe they tried to make an american imitate an asian accent?

Doomlord_Slayermann · Aug 14, 2006, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Shiro was good. Sure he consumed the Emperor's soul with ancient dark sorcery. Sure he once crushed a rebellion and then hung the rebels' heads from the walls of the palace without the Emperor's permission. Sure he killed the fortune teller without second thought. Etc.

Sorry, Shiro was evil.

Clone · Aug 14, 2006, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Eh, just another in a long line of Guild Wars plot holes. How did Shiro release the Jade Wind? What exactly is the Seer, and why does he want to help you fight the Mursaat? What happened to Gwen?

Doomlord_Slayermann · Aug 14, 2006, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone

Eh, just another in a long line of Guild Wars plot holes. How did Shiro release the Jade Wind? What exactly is the Seer, and why does he want to help you fight the Mursaat? What happened to Gwen?

I can answer some of that...

The Jade Wnd is the result of Shiro's death while he was in the process of consuming the Emperor's soul to become some sort of demi-god. It's logical to assume that the explosion was actually the Emperor's soul being rended after it was pissed for being betrayed.
First off, there is more than one Seer. They are an ancient race that have been fighting the Mursaat for ages. They are somehow linked to Glint and want to help the Flameseeker prophecies be fufilled. I'm just going to guess that the Mursaat have imitated gods to mess with the other races before, and because of this the Seers have a grudge against them.
Gwen killed everyone in the betas, and is just in the game as a cameo/subject matter for conspiracy theorists.

Michel Longshorts · Aug 14, 2006, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

We pretty much witness that he kills the emperor, but we don't witness Archemorous, Viktor, and Vizu kill Shiro -- but we know Vizu "turned the tide of battle" while A & V finished Shiro off.

http://www.guildwars.com/gallery/video/

Download the Guild Wars Factions Cinematic from there and you shall "witness" it.

Deadly Panda · Aug 14, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Omg, that whole story of factions sucks big time..

pcredsox99 · Aug 14, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Yes it does it sucks very bad and if u watch the final movie and or read the guide it tells u that shiro was looking at dark magic and the death wale thing that caused the jade wind was planed

Enko · Aug 14, 2006, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Well that's the thing about prophecies that are told directly to those who are supposed to fulfill it. Most of them are what are considered self fulfilling prophecies. If you read enough fantasy series, some have them. The Sword of Truth series has a fairly good description of them and why they're stupid.

If Shiro had never heard this prophecy, would the emperor never had tried to kill him (since Shiro goes after the emperor)? Since we don't know if the emperor was really planning on killing Shiro, we don't know. With the information given, the only thing we know is that the emperor tried to kill Shiro after Shiro went after him.

Do we even know what the deal is with the fortune teller? or was she just some random person that Shiro came across . ..

It fits in line with all of Factions since Factions compared to Prophecies seems to have been incredibly rushed. Prophecies cinematics were fairly decent (at least all the sub text was synchronized with the vocals). Factions cinematics were disjointed, some in random places (ooh a random cut scene with a door opening someplace that we don't know ...), and had awful voice acting. Come on now, this is supposed to be set in an Asian environment yet most of the characters had what seemed to be Boston or New York accents. Danika is most memorable for this. The ending to Factions was also pretty anticlimatic. The final mission with Shiro only takes about 2 minutes with an ok team while the final mission with the Lich could take quite a while.

So back on point, the plot holes in Factions just seem to be a product of bad writing and a rushed product since the production team was probably pressured into releasing it according to schedule.

noblepaladin · Aug 14, 2006, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Yeah, I was hoping Factions would have had a better storyline. It was cool how they had flashback to when Shiro was "good", I thought it might be something like a StarWars type storyline of how Anakin turned into Darth Vader. However, Shiro killed the emperor trying to save his own life (the fortune teller said to choose: "either him or you"). The books said that when Shiro was struck down, he released a wail with so much hatred that it turned the sea into Jade. Why was there so much hatred? At the time Shiro was trying to defend himself. From the reading at first, it seems like Shiro was evil and he planned to kill the emperor, but the game shows that it is not true. So Shiro should not have been so full of evil and hatred that his death caused the Jade Wind.

My guess is that he became an Envoy because he was a very powerful warrior. It looks like all the other Envoys were heroes too. But rather than leading newly dead people to the underworld, Shiro decided to abuse his powers and try to take over the world. This Shiro is purely evil, but there is nothing in the storyline that explains why he changed from an ordinary person who was defending himself into someone who wants to take over the world.

Overall, a very incomplete storyline.

Don Zardeone · Aug 14, 2006, 08:03 PM // 20:03

They shoulda brought Rurik back.

What happened to Adelbern anyway?

gosl · Aug 14, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06

There is another thing I'm a bit confused about. When Shiro was an envoy, right after the Vizunah Square mission, he kills everyone by just doing a small movement. Then he waits until *after* he's mortal to fight us again. He seems to be a lot more powerful as an envoy. Seems like a bad move to be mortal again when he can obviously do whatever he wants (an a lot more) as an envoy in the first place.

TheMosesPHD · Aug 14, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone

Eh, just another in a long line of Guild Wars plot holes. How did Shiro release the Jade Wind? What exactly is the Seer, and why does he want to help you fight the Mursaat? What happened to Gwen?

Gwen still crashes at my house from time to time. She's a bit of a party animal these days, and is really messed up with drugs. It's no wonder she's got problems what with the troubled childhood she had. Following around wammos, watching necromancers transform dead farmers into undead minions, and don't forget all those red iris flowers people gave her. Those things were as potent as opium. I'd really like it if she grew up and got a job, but I'm afraid if I kick her out she'll just get picked up by some ill-intentioned wammo in full-knights. Also the last time I kicked her out she burned down my garage with Inferno.

Anyway...I like EtherealByte's statement about the fortune teller misinterpreting the assassination, and I agree with the rest of his post as well. Shiro's response to his assassination was wrong, regardless of whether or not his lifetime was noble. He was pressed into the position of power that he was not seeking by the Emperor, and led astray by the ramblings of a poverty stricken muse.

But once he was dead, rather than fulfilling his duties as an envoy, which seems to have been an honorable position bestowed upon him despite his final crime, he chose to become bitter rather than using his power for good deeds or watching to try and prevent other humans from falling into the same position that he had been in during his lifetime.

Shiro was put into unfortunate positions in his lifetime, but just like troubled lives in real life, it's up to the individual to decide whether they turn their bad experiences into opportunities to do good, or use their past as an excuse to relay pain on others.

It's like if someone was abused as a child. Will they take what they experienced and live their lives to prevent future children from being abused, or will they wallow in their pain and let it overflow onto the people around them?

Rathcail · Aug 14, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by gosl

There is another thing I'm a bit confused about. When Shiro was an envoy, right after the Vizunah Square mission, he kills everyone by just doing a small movement. Then he waits until *after* he's mortal to fight us again. He seems to be a lot more powerful as an envoy. Seems like a bad move to be mortal again when he can obviously do whatever he wants (an a lot more) as an envoy in the first place.

Obviously the "Kill target and all adjacent parties" spell has long recast.

Edit: Heh, seriously it's most likely what the other envoys did that prevents Shiro from using it on you again.

Charqus · Aug 14, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

I thought shiro was good but just went slightly mad after his experience.
Shouldnt this be in druids outlook?

The one Casey Squid · Aug 14, 2006, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Yeah! What in the hell happend to Adelbern?

Zinger314 · Aug 14, 2006, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by The one Casey Squid

Yeah! What in the hell happend to Adelbern?

Play the Titan quests.

Xenex Xclame · Aug 14, 2006, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote: