Curse

Sli Ander · Sep 29, 2006, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Heres what I want to discuss: How is the gameplay of GW changing?

First off I'll mention heroes. Love 'em to death, but now the game will more often resemble an rts than an rpg. They are great because they take little coordination between two people to get a fully workable group together. The downside is that this game is multiplayer.
Closed gates (in some ways) forced more of us to team up because we could by pass most missions if we felt like it(I don't like the gates, but they have their uses I suppose). This changed the game in minor ways, making it more focused, and with the timers going, needing better teamwork.
Third would be certain skill changes. Let me say first, however, that I believe there are no bad skills. Just bad uses for them or bad players using them. So what about older skills like Unyielding aura? You don't see many ( if any) builds using skills like this. I'm sure it has its uses, but I think possibilities would be interesting. Especially with new skills coming out. Take Death pact signet, for instance. How much would you be willing to trust someone to use this(or what use could be found for it?). Once the person dies again(after being ressed by it), you die along with them. I suppose it would be good for necro fodder, but we'll have to wait for Nightfall to really see.

So to sum up my rambling mind: New skills, new abilities are changing the basis of how this game will be played. What creative uses are we going to get from these tantalizing new skills(I'd like to see some interesting uses from that signet)? And is GW going to change drastically from it?(it being heroes/new builds)
Please discuss.

And remember this is just my humble two cents

lyra_song · Sep 29, 2006, 01:50 AM // 01:50

well i love the new RTS function, since im a big RTS fan.

The micromanagement of their skills and runes and stuff reminds me so much of pokemon

Koss, go! Use mending!!

In the core, its still Guild Wars. You dont have to use Heros. You can use actual people.

Closed gates forces people to play through the game, its annoying after multiple classes, but it has a purpose.

Paperfly · Sep 29, 2006, 01:56 AM // 01:56

I'm not a fan of the RTS branching - I opposed the hench system in Neverwinter Nights (before the game came out) for almost two years on their official boards!

...Having said that, after the preview I'm fairly confident that I can just run generic builds on the heroes, put them on the correct AI setting, and treat them like any old henchman. I'm just hoping there aren't too many missions that force the use of the waypoint system.

Trvth Jvstice · Sep 29, 2006, 03:12 AM // 03:12

The new options of controlling henchmen and your hero are simply "options." If you prefer the old style of playing the game ,play it that way. I think, over time, the new skills and hench/hero options will become as familliar as any other aspect of play.

To me, the more options/ways to play, the better.

Lumenil · Sep 29, 2006, 03:27 AM // 03:27

I dont know.. douring the preview it was virtually impossible to find PUGs for the quests, since everybody had a group full of heroes and henchies.

Sli Ander · Sep 29, 2006, 03:33 AM // 03:33

I'm not trying to complain about the new system of heroes(I do like to be able to mess with their skill bars and stuff), as I tend to use henchies a lot. But this is downgrading(in some ways) the basis of teamwork that the game is based on. Look at it this way:
Pro:better henchies in areas with fewer people
Con: harder to find a good pug, because more people will follow henchway.

I don't want the hero system to go away, I just hope that people don't learn to prefer them to their fellow players(as this is supposed to be a multiPLAYER game)

Curse You · Sep 29, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

I think one thing that would help the comunity would be to CEASE these short "mini events" as they only create areas of problems, and then make the rest of the GW world rather baren.

Also, as a game progresses, it must change and adapt in order to remain "new" and "fresh."

And I'm pretty sure that Unyeilding Aura has a use. I found it out once a good while ago in RA. Mo/A with Shadow of Haste can be really annoying.

Priest Of Sin · Sep 29, 2006, 05:26 AM // 05:26

I can't quite remember if you could have a sub-class with your Heroes, I didn't test out the GWN preview very well. But personally, I like the idea of fitting my monk henchie out the way I want, equiping my ranger henchie with Barrage, and making an IWAY out of my warrior henchie. But I wonder how a Necro MM Henchie would fare?

Ozric · Sep 29, 2006, 05:44 AM // 05:44

I'm thinkin the pug is deader than dead with the arrival of the Hero system. I mean, if you thought getting a real group together in Unwaking Waters was hard, now something like that would seem impossible to me. What about those that try to put the parties together, and those they pick up begin insisting on bringing this hero or that along? I didn't test to see whether the party leader would be able to kick someone's Hero.

Yawgmoth · Sep 29, 2006, 06:20 AM // 06:20

What i don't like is that Nightfall is strongly encouraging single-player play. In Prophecies most missions henchies were lower than acceptable level and not very intelligent. Now in GWN a hero is in most cases better than a random PuG newb that you never know what to expect of. And heroes have similar level to you, they're using the skills you gave them quite well, they got excellent reaction times (interrupts, monking)
During the event i had little to no interaction with other players - there was simply no need for that. While faster and often more efficient, this is not the Guild Wars PvE we loved 1-2 years ago... Nightfall could be an Offline RPG game. I think the whole storyline will be finishable with just you+3heroes+4henchies and thats alarming.

Navaros · Sep 29, 2006, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

During the event i had little to no interaction with other players - there was simply no need for that. While faster and often more efficient, this is not the Guild Wars PvE we loved 1-2 years ago... Nightfall could be an Offline RPG game. I think the whole storyline will be finishable with just you+3heroes+4henchies and thats alarming.

Making henchmen not suck and hence making PUGing unnecessary is not alarming - it's long overdue and the best thing since sliced bread! (Presuming Heros are good enough to make this be the case).

Having to PUG was almost never fun considering that most players are abysmally bad.

Nexus Icon · Sep 29, 2006, 07:02 AM // 07:02

If it means that I no longer have to put up with ragequitting, "OMGWTFBBQ!!1!1!", screaming eejits, I can't see the problem.
Now people will really have to prove their worth before being let into a group where a hero could potentially do their job, only better.

Also, the other really fun thing was doing the 8 man areas with a friend and his / her choise of heroes (2 humans and 6 heroes). You could sit and compare and design really intricate builds. It has the potential to teach people a lot about group dynamics

Coridan · Sep 29, 2006, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus Icon

You could sit and compare and design really intricate builds. It has the potential to teach people a lot about group dynamics

I agree...I primarily play warrior...yes some think this means i am a noob...compared to some i am and compared to others i am not...either way this ability to design your "teams" build will make all players learn about the different capabilities of alot of classes that they normally would not play. I am actually getting interested in figureing(sp) out how to make a good balanced team build. rather than asking the group leader what they want me to bring or dictating to others in my group what i want from them..but let them decide the skills to bring... SO Yes i think this is a great thing.

Maybe they should make a few missions that you can not take any heros/henchies in with u only real players...(they may already have this in Factions not sure since I didnt buy it )

cheers

Ninna · Sep 29, 2006, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

you+3heroes+4henchies and thats alarming.

I'll take 2 players and 6 heroes anyday

I grouped with my guild during Nightfall

Stockholm · Sep 29, 2006, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozric

I didn't test to see whether the party leader would be able to kick someone's Hero.

You kick my Hero

and I leave, we are a team.

Cicada Sopita · Sep 30, 2006, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coridan

Maybe they should make a few missions that you can not take any heros/henchies in with u only real players...

Hopefully not - I want to go through the plotline without having to deal with PUGs.

To those who can't do the missions with their friends/guild, this would make things more difficult.

While the game is meant to be played with other people, I see no positive effect in forcing people to do so - just like many complain about locked gates which force them to do something they don't want to, this would also limit the players choice too much.

Omega X · Sep 30, 2006, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sli Ander

I don't want the hero system to go away, I just hope that people don't learn to prefer them to their fellow players(as this is supposed to be a multiPLAYER game)

Regardless whether this is a multiplayer game or not. Forcing people to play with mindless pugs is not a good thing to do.

xXa1 · Sep 30, 2006, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

What i don't like is that Nightfall is strongly encouraging single-player play. In Prophecies most missions henchies were lower than acceptable level and not very intelligent. Now in GWN a hero is in most cases better than a random PuG newb that you never know what to expect of. And heroes have similar level to you, they're using the skills you gave them quite well, they got excellent reaction times (interrupts, monking)
During the event i had little to no interaction with other players - there was simply no need for that. While faster and often more efficient, this is not the Guild Wars PvE we loved 1-2 years ago... Nightfall could be an Offline RPG game. I think the whole storyline will be finishable with just you+3heroes+4henchies and thats alarming.

i have to agree. prophesies was all about guild wars, nightfall is all about bot wars. it promotes single player gaming, no need for guildies to help you out and assist you in missions and quests, no social interaction, just you and AI. might as well take the game offline instead and save on server costs.

Sli Ander · Sep 30, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

Regardless whether this is a multiplayer game or not. Forcing people to play with mindless pugs is not a good thing to do.

How did 'forcing someone to play with mindless pugs' come out of all this? Even with heroes you have these options: Heroes, henchman, pugs, guildies/alliance, friends list. I don't think anybody mentioned forcing someone to do anything(except maybe the locked gate thing).I'm not trying to change anything about the game(i.e. force anybody to do anything), as this would be in Sardelac if I were; I'm just saying that the game has taken a turn from the multiplayer aspect toward the RTS way(and I'm not even saying its a bad thing).

It'll be nice to have an alternative to 'mindless pugs', but I'm thinking that some people will take it a bit far. I've read in other threads that a lot of the good players tend to hench anyway(it was in some thread about pug monks), so how many half decent players will we lose to heroes? If its taken to that extent, we will be left with new players, bad players, friends helping new players, and the random person who prefers human interaction to henchmen on occasion.

/edit corrected word choice

Sluggs · Sep 30, 2006, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumenil

I dont know.. douring the preview it was virtually impossible to find PUGs for the quests, since everybody had a group full of heroes and henchies.

Quoted for truth...
It may be a necessary evil to keep the game playable, as there are already many mission outposts where its near impossible to form a PUG: they're empty. With players scattered over more and more chapters, it's possible you may not meet anyone at certain hours, unless you arrange a meeting.

That said, I would have preferred improved ways to form PUGs (rather than spam, change districts, and wait, and wait...), some kind of automated global matchmaking. Anet apparently preferred to give us a way to avoid forming PUGs entirely.... at least this extends and renews gameplay a bit with pokemon elements