Curse

Mordakai · Sep 25, 2006, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff

What I wanted to suggest would be some way to keep GWN locked for the first char that does it (forcing him to go through the storyline), and then let it remain more "open" for the rest.

I don't think this option would satisfy the "pro-gaters." After all, their main complaint is low-level characters somehow stealing their fun by being in a place they shouldn't.

Plus, as a staunch "anti-gater" myself, I don't necessarily want my First characters experience to be hamstrung for the sake of future characters...

In short, I think all characters should have the same potential* experience, which in my book, means as little gates as possible.

I use potential here for a reason. Let's say I want to just take my first character exploring, not worrying about the missions (I'll do those later), but just seeing the boundries of the map and general sight-seeing.

After I experience that, my next character just wants to do all the Missions in order (having already explored with my first character, I'm less interested in that aspect).

My 3rd character (a lev. 20 from another campaign) doesn't need more XP. His goal is to cap some Elite, so he will just want to run to that bit of the map, cap, and be done.

That's just three examples of how different characters and situations go best with different "play styles." As long as I can do this, I'll be happy.

saphir · Sep 25, 2006, 10:05 PM // 22:05

I also find locked gates somewhat annoying, although the first time I bumped into the blacktide den gate I thought it was because I had reached the end of the map for the WPE event =)
But later I ended up fighting lvl 13-15 mobs on my lvl 8 w/ my heroes and finding a way into town from the backway, that was pretty cool. So it baffled me what the Harbor would be locked. Funny thing is that the message told me the same thing before and after - We've heard you're a great hero, we don't need you, go protect your own town, you can't come in.
And then after I had done the proper quests - We've heard you're a great hero and everything, please come in.
Made no sense to me...
I did think making the missions unavailable but the towns available depending on the quests you've done to be a good compromise. But please, no locked gates.

Clawdius_Talonious · Sep 25, 2006, 10:21 PM // 22:21

I don't dislike locked gates, everyone constantly complains about the locked gates in Factions, and while I can see some of the locked gates screwing with immersion into the game, wouldn't you imagine that a city plagued with monsters might want to beef up it's security? Nevertheless I do see it as a valid enough complaint, they wanted to force you to experience every bit of the storyline to artificially enhance the shorter/smaller continent of Cantha.

However, you're on an island at the begining of Nightfall and the island is being plagued with pirates. The locked gate that has so many people up in arms may not even exist in the retail version of the game, you may just get to the NPC that takes you to the mainland and he may say something like "My brother sailed for Elona a fortnight ago, I cannot risk my ship to these corsairs piracy, until something is done I will not be sailing anywhere"

Then what? Well, from what I've seen, we'll have people complaining they can't build their own boats or an ant bridge of corpses over to the mainland. You can please some of the people, some of the time, but no matter what you do you'll have vehement opposition in online forums.

=HT=Ingram · Sep 25, 2006, 10:34 PM // 22:34

its more locked regions then gates... there are certain primary quest and missions you will need to have completed in order to progress to the next region of the game... Stick to primaries only... that will help a ton if you are going for a record on completing the game as we all tend too anymore so we can help with mapping efforts... the point is your prob not going to survive long in Kourna unless you have leveled some in Istan first. and running to Vabbi would make Istan and Kourna regions almost too easy with lev 22 heroes and max best armor and weapons... so some blocks make since I think... Sorry I know that's unpopular but I hate seeing games exploited in this way and Evidentally Anet does too.

Badger2 · Sep 28, 2006, 09:19 PM // 21:19

I still think if you lock the NPC's to prevent a lvl 1 - 15 from buying or selling anything in a lv 20 area you will remove the reason for being there. Yes they will still be in the city/outpost but they won't be able to purchase max armor or weapons (or anything else) to get an undue advantage.

Another thing that might discourage these guys from being out of place is to stop allowing them into your pug for THK and such.

Planeforger · Sep 29, 2006, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff

Played any real great Old School RPG like Ultima 4-7? Thought so.

Ultima VII had locked gates - you couldn't leave the first city until you solved the murder!

Now that I think about it, most 'good' RPGs force you to do things and only open areas after certain other things have occurred. The Ultima, Fallout and Elder Scrolls games are some of the few I can think of that allow almost total freedom.

Back on topic - I didn't notice a single locked gate during the preview event. If you played through the game as it was intended (ie. not going to the best town to get the best armour for your lvl 1 character), then the whole locked-area thing isn't a problem.

I think the pacing for it all was perfect, although some quests were ridiculously hard even with a full high-level party. That 'Assault on Beknur Harbour' quest was just insane!

reverse_oreo · Sep 29, 2006, 01:29 PM // 13:29

locked gates have always pissed me off. I cant tell you how many times i have wanted to go cap an elite and had to take an extremely long way around because i cant go out the door where the elite is....locked gates are freaking stupid and need to be removed from the game.

NeHoMaR · Sep 29, 2006, 02:49 PM // 14:49

I vote for closed gates ONLY the first time you open it, then will be opened forever for all your characters. So, make opened/closed gates per account, similar that you unlock a skill, chat window must show: You unlocked XXXXXXXX gate.

Edit: You unlocked Bill Gates, sound cool

Da Cebuano · Sep 29, 2006, 10:23 PM // 22:23

People who are PRO locked gates:

How does not having gates affect you? If you want to play through the game with every single char, then by all means, go ahead, but the rest of us don't/shouldn't have to, being forced to grind is not fun. Prophecy rocked that way, if you're worried about not find people to play, guess what? theres always people like you guys around, even then hero's make your lives easier, so there should be some kind of compromise so that grind should be limited for those who want to.

Oh and since this thread was made by someone who asked for a compromise and obviously doesn't want gates, then you guys come here saying you like gates, thats trolling as your post don't really validate the topic.

The whole "OMG LOW LEVEL" or "They not good enough to be here" is very petty, as you DON'T HAVE TO PARTY WITH THESE PEOPLE and those who aren't good enough? who's to say he didn't play the game, heck, I've seen hella bad people who play every single inch of the game, and great people who just want to get key points of the game done to get a pve char pvp ready. The intellects around here are obviously limited if they think locked gates are to prevent "noobs" from advancing. Running is optional, remember that, if it ruins your fun cause people aren't doing what YOU THINK they should be doing, well maybe you should stop being so egocentric.

Ensign · Sep 29, 2006, 10:56 PM // 22:56

The reason for the gates is a product of two things. First, the #1 complaint about Guild Wars, from people who don't like the game, is that it is too short. Once they have completed the missions and hit 20, there is not too much more for them to do. This is part of the model.

The second part of this, is that after the first few weeks that Prophecies was out, the game started to develop a culture of rushing through the content. Get to Ascalon City, get run to Yak's Bend, then maybe get run to Beacon's Perch so that you could hire another runner to get you to Droknar's Forge so that you could craft your endgame armor. This was prevalent enough that it was difficult to find people to actually *play the game* with in many outposts, as a majority of the population was just looking to hire a runner.

So what do you do when you have new players joining the game, seeing a culture of rushing to the end of the game as fast as possible, and then complaining that the game is too short, too boring, and there isn't enough to do? You cut out the rushing.

The game is better for it.

I'm not going to knock people for not wanting to play through the PvE a fifth time just to have another high level option to play with in the end. It's a legitimate complaint. But that complaint is drowned out by the needs of a new player to encounter a good environment.

Let me put it this way. Ascalon City is populated by the gold houses conducting their daily business. Yak's Bend is a chorus of people looking to hire runners. No one even goes into the jungle anymore. On the other hand, The Marketplace in Cantha is heavily populated by players that are often *forming groups* to *do quests*. There are even experienced players forming these groups on their second or third or fifth characters. While those players might have preferred the marketplace to have been another chorus of "LFR", the casual and new players - the people the game has to cater to for long term success - would appreciate seeing people actually playing the game and grouping.

I don't have to like the system, it certainly doesn't benefit me most of the time. But I can respect why it's there.

Peace,
-CxE

NinjaKai · Sep 30, 2006, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Unlike factions the sheer area of nightfall is very large before you hit your first closed gate. I really can't understand what is so wrong with closed gates in nightfall. Unlike factions I doubt i'll get bored of repeating the same missions and quests with different characters this time tround.

mqstout · Sep 30, 2006, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaKai

Unlike factions I doubt i'll get bored of repeating the same missions and quests with different characters this time tround.

It's not just boredom; it's time involved.

Sir Mad · Sep 30, 2006, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

I don't power level and I don't farm, I just don't want to have to play the game

This quote made me LMAO - thanks

But honnestly do we really need to have another argue pro/con locked gate? Anyway it's too late to change. If ANET decided to use locked gates, then locked gates there will be, and vice-versa.

The 1st post of the topic starter sounded like the strat a discussion to try and guess whether there will be locked gates or not. Not a rant about it. I think that what this topic should have remained.

=HT=Ingram · Sep 30, 2006, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

It's not just boredom; it's time involved.

That makes no sence at all. if you didnt buy the game to play it what did you buy it for? NVM I'll stay out of it. but that comment made no sense at all...

Navaros · Sep 30, 2006, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Locked gates suck. Anet has said they have no problem with legit runners - so then why do they keep making runners unable to do their jobs properly in all the new Guild Wars games?

If people want to run they should be allowed to hire a runner.

Those who do not want to be run don't have to be run.

Players should have the freedom to choose how they want to play the game especially since Anet said legit runners are fine with them.

Remove all locked gates from all Guild Wars games.

Sir Mad · Sep 30, 2006, 04:13 PM // 16:13

HELLO? Is there someone here? It's TOO LATE to remove the locked gates! Do you understand that?

sakura75 · Sep 30, 2006, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Anet get rid of the gates. I can take a lvl 1 character to lvl 20 in 1 day without ever setting foot in pve. Scrimages in GH you gain exp.

So low lvl characters in at the end content is not a big deal. I'm very surprised other people don't do this.

Thumbs Up !
Totally agree with you.
The idea is simple. You and one other guildie (with 7 Heros without skills or weapons or armor, all level 20) fight vs each other. You are level 1 fighting vs 8 level 20 without skills. Fast powerlevelling and you can get stage one of the survivor title easily.

mqstout · Sep 30, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

That makes no sense at all. If you didn't buy the game to play it, then what did you buy it for? Nevermind, I'll stay out of it. But that comment made no sense at all...

Correct. I want to play the game in the few precious hours I can. I don't want to have to spend time jumping through hoops just to be able to get to the next mission or part I enjoy playing. (People who like hoop jumping love FFXI.

)

Case study: None of my Tyrian characters have made it to the Jade Sea, where I really enjoy playing. The whole city is really crappy, and all the locked gates and forced, unskippable, "fedexing" quests and lame missions there ensure that I'll probably never get any of them out to the exciting and fun zones to play in. It's a shame really, as I'd really like to be able to capture some of the elite skills that are only available out there in the Luxon and Kurzick areas.

Another: I don't run or get run, but I do sometimes try to rush myself through some zones. There's a lot of good thrill in making it to the zone warp with 10 hit points left, phantasm on you and a mob on your tail. This experience is completely ruined by locked gates -- and even MORE ruined if you actually fought your way to get to it. Basically, locked gates removes any joy there is in exploration.

Mercury Angel · Sep 30, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

That makes no sence at all. if you didnt buy the game to play it what did you buy it for? NVM I'll stay out of it. but that comment made no sense at all...

PvE unlocking blitz for many people, I'd imagine. Running a character through is still faster for initial unlocks for fun and competitive PvP. You get all the initial skills garnered from quests, purchases, and capping, and then any rune drops and weapon mod unlocks.

And then, many highly competitive people run PvE chars in PvP for the extra armour and weapon sets.

For some people, PvE is only a gateway to rush through so they can get to PvP, and that is no more, and no less, valid a view than any other, in my opinion.

If they add back in the Zaishen Medallions, which effectively doubled faction gain for winning teams, I'd imagine most of the less competitive PvE->PvP'ers will be more content. Unlock rates are VERY satisfying at that speed, in my experience

And then, you have the PvE'ers that enjoy the challenging portions of PvE, and just want to get to FoW, UW, and the elite missions in Cantha. They don't have to play AGAINST human players to enjoy themselves, but that doesn't mean they dislike thrills and tests of skill and knowledge any less.
If we were talking about this in the context of school, they'd be the ones whose grades are not as good as they could be, because the normal classwork feels remedial to them. Only when you give them those big, complicated, projects, and truly immersive coursework do their eyes light up and their passion comes into play.

In other words, just because they like PvE, and gaming, doesn't mean they like the ENTIRE experience. Some things are just annoying stepping stones to get where the good stuff is.

This also is an equally valid view.

Both of these kinds of people have their reasons to dislike gates, and perhaps even most of the PvE content, and both are wholly respectable. Is it any wonder that some of these people felt like they got a slap to the face when the locked gates concept was introduced?

If the Nightfall gates are as rare as Blacktide Den vs all of the preview content, and barely number more than the Prophecies Pseudo-Gates, I don't think there will be too many complaints.

Sir Mad · Sep 30, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Thanks Mercury for talking the time to explain the point of view of the players against the concept of locked doors in detail.

However the pro-locked gates also have their own reasons.

I'm going to take the last char I made in Tyria as an example. I LOVE the concept of closed gates (of course as everybody I may be frustrated by the lack of space between 2 missions, and I understand players frustrated because they're not able to explore as much as they'd like to, but it's due to the comparatively small size of Cantha, not the locked gates). However the first thing I did when I got my mesmer out of pre-searing was to find a run to droks and Marhan's Grotto. Why? 2 reasons: having a max armor makes the game easier, and (I know it's silly but still) I wanted to have a nice looking armor as soon as possible. Am I hypocritical then when I say I'm against locked gates? No. With locked gates I wouldn't have been tempted.

Want another reason? Let's keep going with this mesmer. I wrapped back to Ascalon, and for the first time I decided to take my time to make this char. Because I wanted to funny play the game. I decided I wouldn't leave a region without having visited all the outposts, completed all the quests, and all the missions with the bonus. I arrived in Kryta, wandered around, explored the outposts, and went to ToA. I did a quest around and as I had cleared a part of the map I decided to take this as an oportunity to do more exploring and went south to Fisherman. From there I did another quest and arrived in front of the gate of... Sanctum Cay. I hadn't completed any mission in the Jungle but I was still about to embark for the Desert.

A simillar thing happened in the jungle where after having completed a few quests, one of them leaded me to.. hmm.. was it Quarrel Falls? where a member of the Shining Blade offered me a quest consisting in helping them defeat the Mantle around. The thing is I hadn't even completed the Wilds and was still according to the storyline an ally of the Mantle, considering the Shining Blade as murderers. And all what I did was to try to complete the quests I had before I do the next missions. There is one thing I love in games, it's the story. This is my thing. I'm expecting a game to have a coherent storyline. With unlocked gates, it cannot.

Another problem of unlocked gates. It happened to me yesterday. I was helping a friend with RoF. We noticed a guy in the team was dying REALLY quickly. He was not infused. He had a run to the desert, ascended for the XP (and probably got power level with trolls), had another run to THK, did the mission, and unfortunately joined our team in RoF. He didn't even know where to infuse. And there is also the lack of experience. When I'm in RoF I wanna suppose my team mates have already played with their char, enough to get the hand of them.

More reasons to have locked gates? Just imagine how it is when you're new to the game arrive in Ascalon with your pre-searing collector armor, and see people around with uber-strong armors/weapons, elites, etc. And I don't dare mention Ascalon arena... What would do then? You'd either get a run to droks as well not because that's what you really want but because everybody do it, or you decide not to get one but you're frustrated.

That's it. Just a few reasons to show people who like locked gates also have their own reasons to do so.

EDIT - Now wouldn't it be possible to find a compromise? Let's say what about opening the gates but you'd be able to get the quests or do the missions only if you have completed the previous missions? There is still the problem of high-end armors on lvl 3 chars. What about letting players buy up to the last but one armor, but they'd have to complete a mission to buy the max armor or do a quest (for Tyria that would be Glint's mission for example - that's just an example it's too late to change Tyria).