Curse

»§wåñvè§tå«© · Oct 05, 2006, 11:16 AM // 11:16

i been playing gw's for near on a year, only ventured into hero's ascent with friends or guilds which i have been in, and just before the 6vs6 weekend i had 8 fame, i wanted to join a pvp guild so i could learn the game, and saw and then and then and [then] were winning alot, so i asked about, well i was told i was a noob and that i didnt even know my way around, which was kinda true, and rejected, was told that i'd never beat them too after i said i'd come back to beat them one day, and bet 100ecto's and 100k to the same end by illusion from there guild,

so i become iway lol.. im a monk always liked the character but there i was getting in teams and going all battle crazy true warrior style, and in the weekend 6vs6, i managed to get well over r3, nearly r4 now, and now im a blessed light/woh monk, lol

so does this mean im a good player, or bad player for that matter, or does it mean i learned how to play a specific job and done it well?

what people seem to forget in places such as ha, is that we are all capable of learning, just depends how much you want to,

and i'll be more then obliged to take ur items and money illusion ..

Healing Swan [MEOW]

Sol Is Pyrrhus · Oct 05, 2006, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Wow, what the hell is up with all the bashing of HA players by the PvErs?

Let me just set something straight. Everyone knows that nothing in life is free. People come straight from PvE and get offended because they can't get into high ranking groups. It's not going to happen! It's like being mad because you just graduated middle school as starting pitcher on your local baseball team, and you're mad because the Atlanta Braves won't draft you.

You need persistance. I'm speaking from my own personal experience. I was an officer in a PvE guild for more than three months before I decided I wanted to try out PvP. I got both Protector titles and both explorers 95% on my mesmer. I never once eBayed gold, and I've got FoW armor on my mesmer and 15k on all 4 other PvE characters. Please don't start flaming me about how PvPers are no-nothing assholes.

When PvErs go into HA, they have to be willing to start at the bottom of the ladder again. It's hard after being good at PvE, but it's the simple truth. No matter what you think, rank and fame is a measuring stick to experience and time spent in Tombs. Before I had any fame, I thought the exact same way you do. Now that I'm almost rank 8, I can look back and see that the experience matters.

Build your friends list. Unlock skills. Join unranked PUGs. 180 fame will come sooner than you know it, and with it, your first emote.

Quote:

- Dealing with cocky asshats that think they know everything
- Dealing with other players that don't know anything
- Spending a LOT of hours doing it
- Idle time, hanging around waiting for groups (unless you create your own)

Hm. I must have been in all the wrong districts, but I dealt with cocky knowitall asshats through Tyria AND Cantha. I went through Prophesies with my mesmer back when it was hard for "mesmer n00bs" to get a group. PvE is just as elitist and full of assholes as PvP. If you aren't a tank, nuker, monk, or MM, it's hard to get a group!

Quote:

Top 20 GvG-ers are the real winners but don't get the shiny emotes or crystallines and their names don't appear on your screen... although they do win some serious cash now and then.

"I'm using Martyr on GvGers!"

Nice try, but top 20 GvGers are on Obs Mode every single second of play time; the only time HA guild make it onto Observer are when they win HoH itself, or go against a top 100 guild on the way there. Plus top 16 gets silver capes. gg.

HolyHawk · Oct 05, 2006, 12:48 PM // 12:48

It's really just the way things work. As above poster said, pve is really full of assholes and noobs as well; I do understand what you mean by "mesmer noobs" era, but I don't think it's over anyways, I have hard time getting into some groups. The point is, it's really hard to prove that you are a good pvp player if you do not possess rank, and almost impossible for _new_ players to get into this system. But hey, we will have 6x6 from now on, look at the new opotunities and don't waste them.

Sagius Truthbarron · Oct 05, 2006, 01:06 PM // 13:06

To those of us who IWAYed when the build first started, it was like a rebellion against rank elitists. All of them had gotten their ranks from Spirit Spam and Air Spike. Probably the "Golden Age" Guardian described was durring the forgotten Wamo era and early Air Spike.

Well, look at it now. All those rankless people I IWAYED with back in the day are now ranked 7-10 and are completely elitist XD The opressed become the opressors.

See, what you need is a good gimick that hasn't been done before and ambitious players to run it with

Loq · Oct 05, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light

HA is indeed not as good as it was when I got my sigil.

TIMELINE

The Golden Age

When everyone was accepted, balanced PuGs were common, it was noob friendly

Introduction of IWAY

Don't hate me for this but IWAY did change HA it took advantage of noob balanced groups and chased away many noobs

The IWAY hate period

Many people at first accepted IWAY as a cool new build at first but hate spreaded and people noticed that it became overdominate in PuGs. Balanced members and IWAY members begin flaming each other.

The IWAY nerf

Anet answers the calls of many whiners and nerfs IWAY. IWAY is surpressed and many of the noobs who converted to IWAY now leave HA

Elitism of IWAY

IWAY struggles with the nerf and it no longer is a noob build. Elite players figure out many new powerful builds. To replace IWAY in the mindlessness Vim-way comes.

The future?

the change to 6 man may bring back the noobs and recreate the golden ages. Vim-way is balanced and balanced may be able to function along side of it.

I just register because I need to put more detail into this time line.

Let's start 14 months ago:

Era 1: The time of the elementalist

At the start in HA, you will find mainly ele air spike builds or elementalist builds. I have to say this was the golden age of Korea, they hold halls and favour. Koreans owned this game and were the first to use wards and other stuff.

In this time rangers and warriors pretty much couldnt get into teams!!

Era 2: The revenge of the rangers and how thry change the game!! The Long and long SPIRIT RANGER SPAM ERA!

Ranger got toghether and BANG ranger spike was born, then the bonder become more famous, but there was a twist: This rangers little by little started to use spirits and abuse them.

For 3-4 months Anet didnt nerf ranger spirits and HA was 90% ranger spirit spam builds, it was disgracefull, but abused and Anet took ages to nerf them.

In that time you could have 2-3 spirits of the same spirits, it was ridiculous. I was running one of the only smith teams and I'm not talking about healing balls. I'm talking about proper smith with 8 monks!!! What an era, it was newbi era.

Era3: Ranger spirits get nerfed and the era of the balanced is born aka: Mesmer and Necros become popular!!!!!!!

This era is relative short or long depends how you see it, This is time when Migraines, E.surge builds are born, this is the era Have funn GG IS born and sir conversman start winning hall more regularly.

Necros become stronger also, ranger spike is strong also with power of my ranger still going strong.

This is for me the golden era, because you could see Balanced teams with 2 Mesmers (migraine or surge), you had ranger spikers, you had ele spikers, you still could smith with 8 monks, but then IWAY started was born around the end of this period. But botton line in this time you could see so many different builds, you will find Hex builds with full Mesmer teams and full necro teams, double smith with E/Monk and 2 Ws etc.....

Era 4: IWAY and the anti-IWAY builds

Iway changed things, Math started to dominate and the anti-WAY builds started.

This is for me the decline of HA, I don't mind IWAY, but because of this build a lot of builds desapear, IWAY took advantage of the poor balance of ranger spirit and dominate hex builds aka full mesmer grps died, a lot of balanced combinations died.

In this era, also 2 things happen, Elementalist for nerfed becoming more of a support profession.

What I didnt like of this time is that balanced team got stuck with the : 3 monk classic build + Warder in this time is when IWAY was the noobie build, because any good team with a good warder and 3 decent monks will destroy them and it was true.

Also E.Surge become more popular and the classic build: 1 W, 2 Surgers, 1 trap, 1 warder was the most popular balanced build to counter the wave of invasion of IWAY noob teams.

I made so much fame by killing IWAY like this

thank you lol.

Era 5: Smith is flavour of the month and gets nerfed in 3-4 weeks.

Then suddenly E.surges get nerfed and smith becomes more popular and then HA become the smither and IWAY builds , but smith get nerfed very very fast.

Between era 4 and 5, you have blood spikers coming strong, but not that strong until the ritualist is here, once the ritualist was here it basicly become stronger.

Era 6: faction makes gimmick builds stronger and kills creativity.

I got desapointed with faction, instead of killing IWAY, bloodspikes it made them stronger and made balanced teams weaker!

Yeah the actual balanced team build got nerfed a lot of changes had to be done, but it was ok. balanced teams still manage to adapt and survive, but making HA a bit harder to handle. Rangers interup become more common also.

The ritualist gave a lot of defence to the B-spikers, IWAY evolved and introduce apostacy + Mesme fast cast, the IWAY + rit was a failure. Ranger spikers evolve and manage to survive.

In the other hand, Eles got a boost and area of dmg got a boost what was good, but ritualist and assasin didnt bring nothing to the metagame, it was crap, they brough nothing to HA.

Alleji · Oct 05, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loq

Era 6: faction makes gimmick builds stronger and kills creativity.

I got desapointed with faction, instead of killing IWAY, bloodspikes it made them stronger and made balanced teams weaker!

Yeah the actual balanced team build got nerfed a lot of changes had to be done, but it was ok. balanced teams still manage to adapt and survive, but making HA a bit harder to handle. Rangers interup become more common also.

The ritualist gave a lot of defence to the B-spikers, IWAY evolved and introduce apostacy + Mesme fast cast, the IWAY + rit was a failure. Ranger spikers evolve and manage to survive.

In the other hand, Eles got a boost and area of dmg got a boost what was good, but ritualist and assasin didnt bring nothing to the metagame, it was crap, they brough nothing to HA.

Era 7: VIM and Interrupt-way

That is how I would describe the present HA situation, in 2 completely unrelated statements. The Lower levels are swarmed with VIM, for a reason I still cannot fathom (since they never win anything), IWAY declined significantly and isn't really a strong presence anymore. Blood spike became an actual clean spike build with OP gaze, rather than QZ-based pressure...

The second part is mostly related to Hall of Heroes itself. A good portion of the teams in HoH are balanced who successfully slog through all the VIM noobs at the lower levels. These teams run 2 choking gassers, obviously warrior interrupts and more often than not, leech sig on monks. Oh, did I mention PD? Once in a while, you see that as well. This leads to complete bullshit in Halls: the game turns into a giant interrupt-fest once the holding team's ghost is dead and most of the time, that's how teams hold. The most retarded part about it? The holding team can be completely wiped out at 1:00 and the other two teams are perfectly capable of interrupting each other for 10 minutes through spell breaker, ward of stability and harassing each others' chokers.

I even had a game on courtyard which ended in a draw, after 3.5 minutes of 3-way interrupting.

devils strike · Oct 05, 2006, 04:11 PM // 16:11

well just read it again looked at it in detail and am truly shocked the only reason people like 6v6 was cos of the double fame. i guess anet dont get that. GJ ANET YOU HAVE MADE HEROES ASCENT WORTHLESS

Sarevok Thordin · Oct 05, 2006, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

You pitiful dolt.It was the players themselves that ruined HA.Don't blame Anet for your own misdeeds.

And as for winning Halls,the Ghostly Hero has to be done away with.It's so idiotic,the team who caps first usually wins since they'll have interrupters plastered to the other ghostly heroes asses.

I agree only too strongly about the players making HA worse. The players began abusing it to no end and just RESISTED the attempts to nerf it. Even tho there are CLEAR COUNTERS to it (wards up teh butt) and such. Nobody changes.

Everyone in HA doing IWAY and ViM are like old men, set in their ways, and grumpy about change. Just look at the threads about the change about moany people leaving like it was their only reason for playing......

Sol Is Pyrrhus · Oct 05, 2006, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by devils strike

the only reason people like 6v6 was cos of the double fame.

That simply isn't true. End of story.

HolyHawk · Oct 05, 2006, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Nightfall will add some must-have skills for altar matches; it's quite obvious which ones they are. Note that, in theory, many players will be joining it as well.

BaggyDave · Oct 05, 2006, 05:43 PM // 17:43

So could someone give me a definition of a noob?

Personally a noob is anyone who throws a fit about any issue in the game no matter how good they think they are or not.

Yes I can understand people wanting to play with others with more experiance in HOH, I agree

What I do not understand is the abuse ?? there is simply no need for it, this is from both sides may I add

Winx.ZN · Oct 05, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Onto the attitudes...
I scraped my way to r6, after that it got a great deal easier. Not because I was ranked...(read on) It was painfully slow but due to the fact that I played so much to get there my r6 meant something (no fame farming here). Also meant I filled up my whole flist (if I havent played with you in 2 months you get cleared for someone new I meet). Now I get pms about 4-6 times a day saying "Wanna HA?" not "Bring *specific profession*"

I started my own crappy groups at r0 and asked everyone to join not to rage and to be patient (at this point some people left). After the first match 4 people leave but me and 3 others stayed. Went back to the drawing board and got another 4 people. Lost a match, and we lost 2... rinse and repeat.
Slowly made an 8 man group who wanted to have fun and learn and not rage. Usually all 3-7 of those people were thrown on the flist and I on theirs. Next time I connected I found (from the 2 months of playing) anywhere from 5-10 friends online and r0 scrubs (including me) ready to get our butts beat in HA.
This is how I filled up my flist, not trying to squirm my way into ranked pugs, not crying about it.

PUGS have a right to be elitist if they so wish. It never made me want to quit HA that I couldnt join iA on their next run. Why should they allow me with my paltry 25 fame at the time to join their experience group? I'm just going to screw up their run. They like to play AND win, thats their fun. Why should I ruin it? Why should I use THEIR time to learn instead of learning with others.

I think thats where the attitude adjustment needs to be. People quit too easily when they dont get their r3 in a week or win every match. They want to join higher ranked groups when they have extremely limited HA experience. They want it to be easy and any effort of dedication required by their part should not be brought into question. They want it fast and easy.
You dont want to be bothered with builds or rank or anything? Just want to play vs other people? Goto RA and click "Enter Battle."

You are R0 and got scared away from HA because you couldnt get in a group. As someone said, EVERYONE started at R0. Stop whining and start forming your own terrible, easy to defeat, and newbie groups. Somehow a WHOLE bunch of us managed to work our way up without divine intervention. You can too.

Fast Forward months after me being R0 :
With my flist we make groups and I ask my friends "We are 4/8, do you have a guildie that can play *list professions*?"
Responses are either :
a) no
b) yes
c) yeah, but hes unranked.
If C the usual goes "is he good? if not, will he listen?" If answered yes to either of these, we will take them, because hes a friend of a friend and wont rage. Our RC at this moment is r2 in a r6+ group. (Started r0 with us but had TA and RA experience).
If we cant fill up our group with friends or friends of friends and we resort to LFG, we DO ask for rank. Its the only indication we have that you are anywhere near being decent. If its an r8 group we ask for r7+ (one or so ranks below the average).
Also if you talk trash and /rank corpses, you are out.

In Summary :
PUGS are elitist (with good reason), friends lists arent. Make your own groups and be patient and dont rage on others (people will remember you just as easily for making a scene than for being a great player). If you are really really serious about it, get a voice comm server for 12 people for $3 bucks a month so you can always make groups and have voice comm available (i just canceled my server after having it for 6+ months because all my friends have one

).

Change your attitude as how you approach HA, dont try to change HA's PUG attitude.

B Ephekt · Oct 05, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thallandor

QFT, personally i will never take a player who uses PvP titles/emotes for a PuG in PvE, hencies are often reliable than them.

GG for exhibiting the same sour attitude that many pvers complain about HAers exhibiting. FYI, a lot of people do HA with their pve characters, so their title being on probably isn't a desperate cry to be let into your amazing PUG group. I know I don't care, let alone remember, to disable my pvp title on the rare occasion I venture into pve, so QQ.

And I'm pretty sure those pvp guys can handle the mission with henchmen just fine as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loq

Era 5: Smith is flavour of the month and gets nerfed in 3-4 weeks.

Smith teams?

Yes, I konw you meant smite but you said 'smith' so many times in your post I just found it funny.

B Ephekt · Oct 05, 2006, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winx.ZN

Lots of stuff about HA...

This is a very good post, a lot of newcomers to HA could do with reading this imo. You’re 100% correct about friends lists and starting your own groups.

A lot of people don’t realize this one key thing about HA – once you build up a friends list rank becomes irrelevant! When I ask people on my list to come play I don’t ask them if they’re the same rank as me, I simply give then a vent address and a build. When my friends say they can fill a spot in our group nobody asks what the guy’s rank is because we trust that he’s good if he’s being recommended. I have people from rank 0 to 11 on my list, not because of their rank, but because they’re good players who I can talk to and have fun with. Recently, one of the guys who gets asked first to play Word monk for me is rank 1 or 2, but he’s really good at what he does. So don’t get discouraged about rank and the elitism of PUGs, not everyone is like that. I even know a few people who have basically gotten 3k+ fame from playing with r9+ groups since they were rank 0.

HA is all about having fun, find people you can do this with and stick with them.

Rera · Oct 05, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Many of you don't seem to have much understanding of how a competitive gaming scene works.

First of all, elitism, in the sense that good players only play with good players, makes sense. I'm not going to address verbal abuse or attitudes - those generally come with the territory, and are a result of people who can't control their mouths or their egos. That isn't the point, and there's not much point in complaining about it, because assholes are going to be assholes regardless of your complaining.

New players should not expect warm receptions in competitive situations. Good groups are not going to be responsive to your desires to join them. If someone wants r9 only, they're generally not going to take anything lower unless someone they know vouches for them. Good groups are not going to be tolerant of incompetence or ignorance, because it doesn't make sense for the leader to have to explain to a newbie what the rest of the team considers fundamental knowledge.

A lot of you confuse playing for fun, and playing to win. Casual players are more concerned with the former, in part because most of them will never be good enough to compete with the serious players on any meaningful level. 'Hardcore' players play to win, and they're definitely not going to take less experienced, inferior players.

Furthermore, this sort of environment is healthy for competition. You only see quality, high-level play in a cutthroat environment where everyone wants to win. That's because, in order to beat the next guy, you have to play better than him, outthink him, come up with new and amazing tactics. You're *forced* to keep getting better. When you've got a bunch of competing teams thinking this way, that's when you begin to see really solid playing. Teams that are aren't as focused on winning generally don't produce this kind of advancement, and they do it more slowly than the 'play to win' crowd.

If you want to play with good teams, you've got to put in the work to get to their level. And you no longer have the excuse of, "nobody will teach me!" Obs mode is right there. Study how the good teams play. Study how the individual players execute, study the tactics of the team as a whole.

HA is not newbie friendly, and it shouldn't be. No competitive environment is.

Sarevok Thordin · Oct 05, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

Many of you don't seem to have much understanding of how a competitive gaming scene works.

First of all, elitism, in the sense that good players only play with good players, makes sense. I'm not going to address verbal abuse or attitudes - those generally come with the territory, and are a result of people who can't control their mouths or their egos. That isn't the point, and there's not much point in complaining about it, because assholes are going to be assholes regardless of your complaining.

New players should not expect warm receptions in competitive situations. Good groups are not going to be responsive to your desires to join them. If someone wants r9 only, they're generally not going to take anything lower unless someone they know vouches for them. Good groups are not going to be tolerant of incompetence or ignorance, because it doesn't make sense for the leader to have to explain to a newbie what the rest of the team considers fundamental knowledge.

A lot of you confuse playing for fun, and playing to win. Casual players are more concerned with the former, in part because most of them will never be good enough to compete with the serious players on any meaningful level. 'Hardcore' players play to win, and they're definitely not going to take less experienced, inferior players.

Furthermore, this sort of environment is healthy for competition. You only see quality, high-level play in a cutthroat environment where everyone wants to win. That's because, in order to beat the next guy, you have to play better than him, outthink him, come up with new and amazing tactics. You're *forced* to keep getting better. When you've got a bunch of competing teams thinking this way, that's when you begin to see really solid playing. Teams that are aren't as focused on winning generally don't produce this kind of advancement, and they do it more slowly than the 'play to win' crowd.

If you want to play with good teams, you've got to put in the work to get to their level. And you no longer have the excuse of, "nobody will teach me!" Obs mode is right there. Study how the good teams play. Study how the individual players execute, study the tactics of the team as a whole.

HA is not newbie friendly, and it shouldn't be. No competitive environment is.

You are forgetting the main problem

"TITLE OR EMOTE OR BYE"

Rera · Oct 05, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

That problem only exists for people who don't know anyone and don't have groups to roll with. And in that context it makes sense because there is no other way to measure ability prior to playing. While an r# might not be ubar l33tsauce, he's at least played enough HA to get that rank.

There are a few ways to play with good teams: you can grind out some rank, you can make connections, or you can make your own team.

B Ephekt · Oct 05, 2006, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

You are forgetting the main problem

"TITLE OR EMOTE OR BYE"

That's pure bullshit, I see unranked groups forming everyday. The problem, like I said earlier, is that most unranked players don't want to actually play with people of similar experience or learn anything about HA - all they want is an easy ticket to a tiger.

To be honest, unranked players place just as much importance on rank as ranked players do; if they didn't, they wouldn't be complaining about not being about to get into ranked groups.

dreamhunk · Oct 06, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32

who cares it is just a game having fun should be the main point.

Pvp should have never ever got any tittles. tittles is what killed pvp.

Ellix Cantero · Oct 06, 2006, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

Its like things have gotten 10x worse since the last time I was in HA. For a player new to the game, coming to this place without knowing friends would make you hate this game. Disgusting, and im just extremely disappointed in the community. We play this game to have fun, that idea was lost somewhere in heros ascent.

I went from fresh r5 to r6 in about one week back in March, and I have to agree with you. I was utterly sick of the place at the end of that marathon. The 6v6 + map changes have given me new hope for it.