Curse

Lord Sarevok · Oct 13, 2006, 09:57 PM // 21:57

A very long winded thread indeed. I'm just going to add a little bit about why adding collector and green items for every single possible combination is not going to happen. Be warned, math follows.

Let us look at shields as an example. We can have two mods on a shield and we can't have two of the same type except the damage reduction mods (excluding the unconditional one).

There are four different +hp mods, four different damage reduction mods, seven +armor vs damage type mods(piercing, etc.), eleven +armor vs. species mods, twenty +1 to attribute mods (includes ritualist), and finally eight reduce duration of a condition mods(no burning apparently). Effectively there are eighteen +armor mods as you can't have +armor vs a species and +armor vs a damage type. The rest I assume have no combining problems.

Now let us do the math part. I'll "pick" the first mod and then calculate all the combinations assuming the first one is chosen.

Mods involving +hp = 4(hp mods) * ( 4(damage reduction) + 18 (+armor mods) + 20 (+1 attribute) + 8 (conditon mods) ) = 200

Now we have to be careful to not double count our combinations, I've done all the ones involving +hp so I just need to calculate the other types with each other.

Mods involving +armor= 18 * ( 4 + 20 + 8 ) = 576

Mods involving +1attribute = 20 * ( 4 + 8 ) = 240

Mods involving reduce duration = 8 * 4 = 32

Mods involving reduce damage (that haven't been counted by combining with itself) = 3

Total number of shields = 200 + 576 + 240 + 32 + 3 = 1051

And that is why Anet should not make a collector or green for each combination. You can do a similar exercise with wands, focii, or staves if you want ( look up the combinations on wiki, I did) but that will be left as an exercise to the reader.

As you can see, adding the ability to remove inherent modifiers on shields, wands, focii, and staves and then applying them to an item of your choosing is in a word, necessary. You might then argue many of those combinations are junk, and so they are but they all have a potential use at some point in time (+1 attribute on a shield mods are probably by far the weakest IMHO).

winkgood · Oct 13, 2006, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Lord Sarevok:

I'll quote my previous post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

...
I proposed the idea of weapon crafters who make customized collector weapons with inherent mods chosen by the player.
...

I always thought that the choices for end game greens in factions were crap, especially for rangers. If end game greens were something included in nightfall, I think making them customizable would be a very good option. They would still have a set skin but would be given the name "Leeroy Jenkin's Shield" to match the character's name.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 13, 2006, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

Weapons and mods are part of actual gameplay, skins are not.

And I have said time and time again that it's NOT all about the skins. The salvaging system ISNT just so that people can mod rare skins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

The accumulation of the things you have said up to this point confirms your primary interest in skins. Don't come out pretending to preach fair gameplay when your true intentions are so blatantly obvious.

Outright lying. Or you have me confused with someone else. But regardless of what my interest is, the difference is that YOUR interests only benefits the few while pro-inscriptions benefit the majority.

By the way, the accumulation of the things YOU have said always point to your obvious self interests. How many times have you said that majority rules mean nothing? Or how many times have you said that not everyone should have a chance at getting what they want?

And remember your very arrogant post of telling people to "stop corrupting YOUR game and go play something else?" That one was classic.

winkgood · Oct 13, 2006, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

And I have said time and time again that it's NOT all about the skins. The salvaging system ISNT just so that people can mod rare skins.

If it is true that you aren't in it JUST for the skins, then why do you continue to dodge my questions? I've asked multiple times about the idea of customizable crafter items, greens, and the addition or more collector items. I believe it was you (although I could be mistaken) in another post that said something along the lines of:

"Why limit our options like this"

This isn't limiting, it is actually providing more gameplay options while keeping rare skins rare and as a result giving more options for more people.

Conclusion: You are in it for the skins. Period.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Oct 13, 2006, 10:43 PM // 22:43

I remember a long time ago when Elite Skills were really hard to get due to the horrible capping system and disappearing bosses. At that time people were arguing that not everyone should get all Elite Skills because they were...."elite" The same arguments were made that "work" should be put in to get those skills. And yes, some even argued that you dont even need Elite skills to function. Luckily of course, ANET improved the skill capping system.

I see the same arguments against inscriptions here. I just have to shake my head.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 13, 2006, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

If it is true that you aren't in it JUST for the skins, then why do you continue to dodge my questions? I've asked multiple times about the idea of customizable crafter items, greens, and the addition or more collector items. I believe it was you (although I could be mistaken) in another post that said something along the lines of:

"Why limit our options like this"

This isn't limiting, it is actually providing more gameplay options while keeping rare skins rare and as a result giving more options for more people.

Conclusion: You are in it for the skins. Period.

Im not dodging anything. Most of your arguments are just plain silly. Stuff like the minority paying taxes and the majority leeching off the rich minority are arguments that I refuse to even address.

As for your collectors and greens arguments, many others have addressed it as well. Just take a look at Lord Saverok's post and you'll see how ridiculous and impractical it is to try to include items for every possible combination of mods out there.

However, your collector that crafts any mod for any item idea isnt bad. But it also seems you're not willing to compromise with the idea that there should be a better salvaging system but with rare drops being even more rare.

So it is YOU who is the one who is in it JUST for the skins.

winkgood · Oct 13, 2006, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

I remember a long time ago when Elite Skills were really hard to get due to the horrible capping system and disappearing bosses. At that time people were arguing that not everyone should get all Elite Skills because they were...."elite" The same arguments were made that "work" should be put in to get those skills. And yes, some even argued that you dont even need Elite skills to function. Luckily of course, ANET improved the skill capping system.

I see the same arguments against inscriptions here. I just have to shake my head.

Elites provide real benefit to gameplay. Skins do not. A green Wing's axe performs exactly the same as a 15^50 chaos axe with a +30 health and zealous mod. I wish the pro-inscriptionists would stop confusing functionality with vanity.

Loviatar · Oct 13, 2006, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Those of us that are already rich will be ... yes you guessed it RICH. We are NOT trying to protect our personal wealth but the life of the game.

what people like this are trying desparately to preserve is i have it and you dont so i am superior to you.

it is not the gold it is the ability to look down on the *little people* who have not played the GAME *their way* and slaved for a year to afford nice things.

ANET/NCsoft has the logs of how the majority of people play the game and they are going for the most players who will return not the extreams of any stripe.

GOLD WARS is a *mini game* created by a tiny minority of players and ANET/NCsoft has decided their *self created mini game* is not beneficial to GW in general and is taking steps to remove it.

guild hall sig ?

runes in general?

sup absorb?

now top price weapons

tomorrow something else.

gold wars is ending

Cybah · Oct 13, 2006, 11:15 PM // 23:15

300k was NOT way too much for that shield because it IS/WAS very rare.

@winkgood & Zehnchu: live with the truth that you have to work for rare skins

TO WORK OR TO LUCKY FIND A RARE SKIN WAS ALWAYS PART OF A RPG !

YunSooJin · Oct 13, 2006, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Well, if they include inscriptions in nightfall, several things will happen:

1) Some of my items I worked hard to get for will be worth a lot less.
2) You idiots think r8 15>50 weapons or 15>50 inscriptions will be worth a lot. Initially they'll be worth a bit but the economy will completely bottom out.
3) Anet will risk either screwing up our entire economy or make inscriptioning difficult.

I think 15>50 inscriptions will be worth anywhere from 40 to 90k. Probably around 40 though, in the end.

There's been no clue to whether spellcaster items or shields will have inscriptions as well.

We also don't know the limit to inscriptions. That will drive up and down the value of inscriptions depending on the restrictions placed on them. By this I mean,
If i salvage a 15>50 inscription from a shortsword, can I use it only on other:
a) shortswords
b) swords
c) all melee weapons
d) all weapons period

Stuff like that will determine the ultimate pricing.

In the end I kind of want to care, because I spent a good deal of cash on my perfect broadswords and runic axes (all customized for pvp) but I suppose it's ok.

A lot of us power traders have at least a couple million in ectos/gold/what other items have you stored up, so if prices do bottom out, we're in luck, cause our dollar will go that much farther.

The rest of you poor people will do exactly the same thing the rest of the trading scrubs have been doing since GW started..scraping away at the bottom of the barrel. Except maybe you'll have a couple nice weapons so you can stop feeling inferior and disenfranchised.

I am pretty sure this will cause some hardcore pve'ers to quit, but that's expected with a change as major as this.

Also I don't expect ANET to be guaranteed to go with inscriptions. You saw what happened to our promised auction house. Been a year and we're still twiddling our penii's in our hands.

Theus · Oct 13, 2006, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Guildwars Am Doom3d!

sumrtym · Oct 13, 2006, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

A lot of us power traders have at least a couple million in ectos/gold/what other items have you stored up, so if prices do bottom out, we're in luck, cause our dollar will go that much farther.

The rest of you poor people will do exactly the same thing the rest of the trading scrubs have been doing since GW started..scraping away at the bottom of the barrel. Except maybe you'll have a couple nice weapons so you can stop feeling inferior and disenfranchised.

Grow up. Really.

BTW, I love the power trader name. That's funny. Power trading in a GAME where you constantly argue none of the things traded makes any difference anyway (which, realistically other than for enjoyement, is so true). lol

YunSooJin · Oct 14, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumrtym

Grow up. Really.

BTW, I love the power trader name. That's funny. Power trading in a GAME where you constantly argue none of the things traded makes any difference anyway (which, realistically other than for enjoyement, is so true). lol

I need to grow up or you need to face the facts? Sorry, not everyone in life is going to mince with words, unless your mom and dad who apparently have gone to great lengths to not hurt your fragile ego.

sumrtym · Oct 14, 2006, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

I need to grow up or you need to face the facts? Sorry, not everyone in life is going to mince with words, unless your mom and dad who apparently have gone to great lengths to not hurt your fragile ego.

Sorry, haven't lived at home in a long time. Unlike everyone you know, troll.

BTW, I'm one of the several million crowd and think it's a great idea. But then, I'm not a selfish immature fella who thinks my weapons in a game make me "leet".

YunSooJin · Oct 14, 2006, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumrtym

Sorry, haven't lived at home in a long time. Unlike everyone you know, troll.

BTW, I'm one of the several million crowd and think it's a great idea. But then, I'm not a selfish immature fella who thinks my weapons in a game make me "leet".

Yeah, attack two lines of what I've said because a couple other lines cause you to grow sand in your taco =3.

Then again, I guess I hit a nerve eh? I wasn't even talking about you in particular but I guess we know you're a poor scrub who constantly made excuses to himself (herself? ..during menstruation, maybe) about how you couldn't be bothered to sell anything to get cool skins while the rest of us shut the hell up and did it.

But don't let it go to you. Just pull the troll card when you feel like you're outmatched, nub.

winkgood · Oct 14, 2006, 01:26 AM // 01:26

YunSooJin,

I totally agree with your stance but calling someone names isn't the best approach to proving your point.

Clawdius_Talonious · Oct 14, 2006, 01:33 AM // 01:33

This thread is a mix of logical theories and debate, and childish idiocy.

Azekiael · Oct 14, 2006, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Nice to see that we can respond to a serious thread with childish name calling and insults good work ...........
Maybe just maybe we should get back to this issue at hand before the moderators close this thread....
Please , please dont allow this to happen..

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 14, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

But don't let it go to you. Just pull the troll card when you feel like you're outmatched, nub.

But you ARE trolling. You've done nothing in this thread except to call people idiots and scrubs and nubs. In fact, this is in your first post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

2) You idiots think r8 15>50 weapons or 15>50 inscriptions will be worth a lot. Initially they'll be worth a bit but the economy will completely bottom out.

Now stop trolling.

sindex · Oct 14, 2006, 01:59 AM // 01:59

I’m surprised if A-net sees you guys still complaining and cut out the option all together; seeing how long this thread has gone so far (but I bet it has not broken the record yet). Anyways I can’t really see this as an illogical desperate act for help, but pleases, please, and more pleading do not take this feature out. Listen to the people if you must, but don’t dice something because the public can’t handle it. Sometimes it’s better to be innovative then be stale (really).