Curse

leprekan · Sep 29, 2006, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Mord, I don't contradict myself.

Those other things to do in the game beyond farming cost GOLD and A LOT of it. If Everything has little value those sources of entertainment are only available to people like me. The casual gamer loses again. You spew on and on about leveling the playing field for all. When it comes down to it you are wanting something for yourself not the long life of the game. Perfect mods are not needed they are luxury 1hp has saved my life maybe 5 times in 5000 hours. It is vanity just as Anet meant for it to be.

Gli · Sep 29, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

but let me ask you this, all of you guys who think we're so evil, and do nothing but ebay, and have no idea what we are talking about...all of you who think you know SO much about the effects things have on the guildwars economy, and complain that its so hard making money...i pose a question to you.
if you know so much more than we do about guildwars economics, why are you still poor&complaining about it?

Real answer: no one thinks you're evil, no one cares if you eBay.

We all realize the economy is going to change.

We either don't care or embrace it.

Our enjoyment of the game doesn't hinge on a few 'elite' players' obsession over a meaningless virtual economy.

If ArenaNet introduces features that will 'ruin' the way you enjoy the game, that's just too bad, but it's their choice to decide how they want the game to be. I'm absolutely certain that way, way, WAY more people applaud the new salvage options and inscriptions than there are people decrying it.

Fist_of_God · Sep 29, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

I agree with Akhilleus and I suggest people check out this thread started by capitalist:

The Haves and the Have Nots...

Me too, Ah I remeber the post monk nerf days of yester-year, when you could solo uw and make 200 ecto a month easy, getting like 4-6 per run(with very short run times), never really had to grind but to get the monk runes, which went up to 90-100k each for some.....good times

So they did a reset and then you had a whole new class of rich people in a matter of minutes. Ecto was reset, I wasn't on at the time, but many became extremly wealthy in minutes, seeing ecto, shards, etc.. was being sold for 300 each at the trader.

Everytime they have done somthing to improve the economy it has always bounced back, no matter how severe we thought the action was or the current off set reaction of the market. In other words, anet will always be tweaking, and we will always have to adapt. Whether it is increasing drop rates of runes to lower the market value, or adding inscriptions. Those of us who enjoy farming for the sport, will find somthing to farm, but for those/some who like to collect, there wont be any more or much incentive.

I still farm ecto just for fun(not that I need any), albeit not that often since America rarely has favor but late at night.

I got rich by buying and trading high end weapons, farming ecto was fine until all the tweaks and nerfs to the drop rate. I think it will be harder to attain wealth from the point inscriptions are released, and by wealth I mean the kind that spil, ahk and several others have, not your casual 25 mil net worth player as myself.

If I was either of them, I would be upset. I have seen them accumulate their collection over the past year and a half, and if it was me..I'd be pissed about this feature as well, but only from the point of time spent and wasted playing to create such a unique collection, then seeing it handed to almost everyone.
Not literally, but figuratively speaking, many will now have an opportunity to have the same, and I can live with that.

I have come to accept these types of tweaks from anet, and have always lived to farm another day, but as for collecting........I am done. I will always enjoy the game for farming and pvp and pve, but nothing for me to collect now, but new greens and req 7-8 gold clean or crappy mod weapons, to stick my inscriptions on.

We all have to deal with it or move on to another game, its that simple and that complicated.

AnnaCloud9 · Sep 29, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGgold

On the issue of NEED vs WANT.
I would say, if something gives one character an edge over another, it is not VANITY, it is a NEEDED item for the other player.

There is no NEED catagory in PvE when compared to another player, as you're not competing against other players. In PvP, all items are perfect anyway, right? And in PvP, there is no WANT catagory in terms of vanity since the longsword kills at the same rate with 15^50 as the brute sword of the same modification. See how this inscription process would actually 'level' both PvE and PvP?

In essence, this will allow those who play through the game as PvE characters jump in with their 'hard-earned' items and compete with the already-perfect weapons that PvP offers, without sacrificing their own versions of 'perfect' weapons for those given in PvP, which essentially are equivalent to Collector's weapons in PvE.

Think of it as a reward for going through the campaign...kind of...if you like.
And going through the campaign I think is work enough to be rewarded your 15^50 dwarven axe, if that's what you want.

Mordakai · Sep 29, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

but let me ask you this, all of you guys who think we're so evil, and do nothing but ebay, and have no idea what we are talking about...all of you who think you know SO much about the effects things have on the guildwars economy, and complain that its so hard making money...i pose a question to you.
if you know so much more than we do about guildwars economics, why are you still poor&complaining about it?
.

Holy crap! LOL. You make a lot of assumptions, my friend.

1. As I've said before, I'm not the one complaining.

I welcome this change, I think the net effect will be good. YOU are the one complaining how this will single-handedly ruin the game. I'm not buying into that argument until someone proves to me that:

a) the majority of people who play this game are rich

b) this will somehow hurt new players.

2. You DO NOT need gold to play this game!!! Why do you think I don't have 1 million gold? Because I don't want it! I'd rather do missions and quests then farm. That's just me.

3. YOU took a risk by investing time/effort into obtaining items that could go down in value. It's not like this is the first time in the history of Guild Wars some item was devalued. (HoD swords anyone?)

4. The game will go on, with or without Inscriptions. I think it's a great idea, but if it doesn't happen, I'm not going to rage quit! Why?!? Because I actually enjoy the GAME.

5. There will be other things to farm / trade. You seem smart and energetic, I have faith you'll survive. So take your own advice: quit complaining, and start trading, cause I have a feeling change is coming, whether you like it or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Mord, I don't contradict myself.

Those other things to do in the game beyond farming cost GOLD and A LOT of it. If Everything has little value those sources of entertainment are only available to people like me. The casual gamer loses again. You spew on and on about leveling the playing field for all. When it comes down to it you are wanting something for yourself not the long life of the game. Perfect mods are not needed they are luxury 1hp has saved my life maybe 5 times in 5000 hours. It is vanity just as Anet meant for it to be.

Right... which is why you are against Inscriptions, because Anet doesn't know what it wants?

Akhilleus · Sep 29, 2006, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Real answer: no one thinks you're evil, no one cares if you eBay.

We all realize the economy is going to change.

We either don't care or embrace it.

Our enjoyment of the game doesn't hinge on a few 'elite' players' obsession over a meaningless virtual economy.

If ArenaNet introduces features that will 'ruin' the way you enjoy the game, that's just too bad, but it's their choice to decide how they want the game to be. I'm absolutely certain that way, way, WAY more people applaud the new salvage options and inscriptions than there are people decrying it.

you misunderstand, as ive said, i've long since stopped caring about my wealth...for one, its gotten to the point where i could never trade again, and still be well-off for the remainder of he GW series.
what i care about is the fact that 99% of the people i play this game with are not particularly wealthy, most, however, wish to be, and most of them i know, do not like what inscriptions will do to the replayability and long-term effects it will have. what i care about is that anet is killing the future of the game for people who dont want handouts, who'd prefer to have something to do 6 months down the line after they're done with whatever it is they want to do...people who can see past the instant benifit inscriptions will bring, and see the long-term ramifications. they understand, that while they would like flashy items, they want them legitimatly. the kind of person i am, and the kind of people i know&play with, are the kind of people who enjoy every aspect of the game; pve, pvp (both to lesser or greater extents), missions, questing, trading, farming, etc, and they dont want to see any aspect they enjoy tanked for the sake of people too lazy to accomplish anything for themselves.

as for the following:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Holy crap! LOL. You make a lot of assumptions, my friend.

1. As I've said before, I'm not the one complaining.

you've CLEARLY not been reading every page as it goes along, have you?for every rational argument ive put forth, ive gotten back 10 insults about how ima greedy asshole concerned only for his well-being.

I welcome this change, I think the net effect will be good. YOU are the one complaining how this will single-handedly ruin the game. I'm not buying into that argument until someone proves to me that:

i welcome any change that will have a positive long-term effect.
for example; greens. good idea. they allowed middle-class and poorer players to afford the maximum stat weapons they hadnt been able to afford, meanwhile keeping the initial purpose of golds.

a) the majority of people who play this game are rich
it doesnt matter whether or not the majority of players are rich, something like this WILL effect the entire economy. Period.

b) this will somehow hurt new players.
initially, it wont, you;d know this if you'd bothered to read my past posts.
in fact, i have no argument with the statement that the majority of people will welcome this. im sure they will, but that doesnt necissarily mean its a good idea. theres a reason for two and a half thousand years every "democratic" government that existed on earth required 2 things in common:
A: literacy
B: citizenship

because the LAST thing you want is someone who only recognizes what comes to their own personal benifit voting on something that could have nation-wide effects.

2. You DO NOT need gold to play this game!!! Why do you think I don't have 1 million gold? Because I don't want it! I'd rather do missions and quests then farm. That's just me.

exactly my argument, thank you for agreeing with me.
like i said, i made a concious decision to start trading and going for gold items, and recongized the time it would take. instead of complaining "OMG I WANT THAT, BUT I DONT WANT TO HAVE TO PUT ANY THOUGHT INTO GETTING IT!" i told myself "yeah, its gunna take a while, but eventually, i'll have what i want."

3. YOU took a risk by investing time/effort into obtaining items that could go down in value. It's not like this is the first time in the history of Guild Wars some item was devalued. (HoD swords anyone?)

agreed.
however, theres a difference between reintroducing +5 energy as an item modification, since that actually made a difference in item modifications...
tanking golds does nothing to improve someones battlefield effectiveness.
in fact, i'd even agree with runes and weapon upgrades being at a set, low cost form the traders...that would have at least some validity in making it possible for people of low means to aquire what they need.
but frankly, as you said yourself, noone needs gold. and furthermore, noone needs gold items...they just WANT them. they difference some people are only interested in themselves.

4. The game will go on, with or without Inscriptions. I think it's a great idea, but if it doesn't happen, I'm not going to rage quit! Why?!? Because I actually enjoy the GAME.

as i stated,
A: ill probably quit either way, since im moving into an apartment later this month.
B: if i quit because of inscriptions it would be not for its toll on my wealth (since i'd be giving away my items anyway), but for showing a complete disregard for the long-term health fo the game, at the cost of appeasing whiners.

5. There will be other things to farm / trade. You seem smart and energetic, I have faith you'll survive. So take your own advice: quit complaining, and start trading, cause I have a feeling change is coming, whether you like it or not.

A: im not complaining, i'm warning, plain and simple. the fact of the matter is very, very few people have even a basic grasp of economics...those who do, are generally not poor.
B: as stated, i already have enough to survive the rest fo the GW series, i have no need for trading anymore, nor would a market drop really effect me, especially since, i KNOW i could rise to the top again, that isnt an issue to me. like i said, ive since stopped caring, what i care about is that the experience could be tarnished for the people i know, and people who actually have a general sense of playing a game for the sake of playing the game (in its many forms)...not for the sake of getting stuff handed to you right off the bat.
C: the same people who complain "OMG IM SO POOR AND I DONT WANT TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT!" are the same people who whine that they cant get into pve parties, they cant do pvp, complain that they should get elites from the start, that skills cost too much gold, etc, etc.
lazyness is an entire mentality, and not a mentality thats pleasant to game with in ANY aspect of guildwars.

6 months down the line do you REALLY want guildwars to be left with nothing but whiners? because as long as anet caters to their will, it will slowly drive away people who care.

Right... which is why you are against Inscriptions, because Anet doesn't know what it wants.
anet wants more money, and rightfully so.
they think (probably thruthfully) that inscriptions will (short-term at least) bring in more, new players.
however, the intelligent ones it succeeds in bringing in will beat the game fast, and look for other things to do, and with the inscriptions thing, that will kill a large part of the GW metagame.
so, they'll tire all that much faster, see that anet caters to whiners, and say "man, that game coulda been good, if only the company didnt listen to idiots." and neglect to get another chapter.
on the other hand, it will retain whiners so long as they give them what they want.
first its the UAS unlock, then inscriptions, whats next, spend an extra $10 when you sign up, and start at rank 12, with 100% mission completion?

Mordakai · Sep 29, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

I agree with Akhilleus and I suggest people check out this thread started by capitalist:

The Haves and the Have Nots...

So, what does it mean if Anet institutes Inscriptions? That this whole premise is wrong?

leprekan · Sep 29, 2006, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Mord,

The Chinese teach us that raising ones voice in an argument ... means you have already lost your argument.

I am against it because Anet has made mistakes in the past ... this will be another one. However this type of mistake has potential of being a game killer.

Mordakai · Sep 29, 2006, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Mord,

The Chinese teach us that raising ones voice in an argument ... means you have already lost your argument.

I am against it because Anet has made mistakes in the past ... this will be another one. However this type of mistake has potential of being a game killer.

LOL. Doom and Gloom. I've heard it all before.

I can't wait for a year from now, and Anet proves you all wrong...

Gli · Sep 29, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

you misunderstand, as ive said, i've long since stopped caring about my wealth...for one, its gotten to the point where i could never trade again, and still be well-off for the remainder of he GW series.
what i care about is the fact that 99% of the people i play this game with are not particularly wealthy, most, however, wish to be, and most of them i know, do not like what inscriptions will do to the replayability and long-term effects it will have. what i care about is that anet is killing the future of the game for people who dont want handouts, who'd prefer to have something to do 6 months down the line after they're done with whatever it is they want to do...people who can see past the instant benifit inscriptions will bring, and see the long-term ramifications. they understand, that while they would like flashy items, they want them legitimatly. the kind of person i am, and the kind of people i know&play with, are the kind of people who enjoy every aspect of the game; pve, pvp (both to lesser or greater extents), missions, questing, trading, farming, etc, and they dont want to see any aspect they enjoy tanked for the sake of people too lazy to accomplish anything for themselves.

You make too many assumptions. You assume the game is going to have everything available as a hand-out, while we haven't even the first clue about how the inscriptions are going to work. You assume that ANet is doing whatever it is they're doing for the benefit of 'lazy' players, while it might instead not take anything away from the game but turn out to be a nifty new feature that adds 'stuff to do' for overactive players. You also equate disinterest on some people's part with certain aspects of the game with lazyness, which is frankly insulting.

I for one have faith that although things will change, they'll keep the game interesting.

Mordakai · Sep 29, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

anet wants more money, and rightfully so.
they think (probably thruthfully) that inscriptions will (short-term at least) bring in more, new players.
however, the intelligent ones it succeeds in bringing in will beat the game fast, and look for other things to do, and with the inscriptions thing, that will kill a large part of the GW metagame.
so, they'll tire all that much faster, see that anet caters to whiners, and say "man, that game coulda been good, if only the company didnt listen to idiots." and neglect to get another chapter.
on the other hand, it will retain whiners so long as they give them what they want.
first its the UAS unlock, then inscriptions, whats next, spend an extra $10 when you sign up, and start at rank 12, with 100% mission completion?

First, thanks for your reasoned responses. I think we actually agree more than disagree.

Our main disagreement: the majority of people playing this game care about "staus symbols." I just think it's false. Now, I could be wrong, and once people can get 15>50 mods for cheap they'll go "WTF is this? I wanted my 15>50 mod to be impossible to get! Bye-bye Guild Wars!"

Now, I'm sure there are some with such attitude. But I highly doubt it's a significant number.

I guess we'll have to wait and see... but I doubt this is the "end of Guild Wars as we know it." (at least, not how I know it!)

Cjlr · Sep 30, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

What I'd like to hear, just once, is a little substantiation. If inscriptions will wreck the economy, there must be a reason, right? I've heard not a one. Er, read. And to be fair, I only read about half the thread today. The other half I read yesterday, and maybe I forgot something.

As I see it, it just separates the entire "mod" system from skins. Mods in GW function as affixes. Prefix-(infix)-suffix. We currently have prefix mods and suffix mods. We have infix mods too, but they are currently tied to skins and are untransferable. Inscriptions provide a means of carrying infix mods from one weapon to another. I don't see the problem. Rare skins will still be rare. Rare mods will still be rare. Each variable is now independent. There will still be a continuum of values.

The question becomes, then, why do you play? Is it:
A) Recreational/casual PvE
B) Recreational/casual PvP
C) Competitive PvP
D) Collecting rare items
E) Socialising
F) To make yourself l33t (wanting cool stuff because it's cool)
G) To make other people think you're l33t (wanting cool stuff because it's valuable or because other people think it's cool)
H) To become e-rich and/or l33t
I) To stay e-rich and/or l33t
J) Something I didn't think of

Time for some good old Makin' Stuff Up - I see it as working out approximately as follows: A) and B) will either approve or not care. It only makes things easier for them. C) will probably not care. D) will object. E) will probably not care. F) will approve. G) will object. H) will object. I) will object. J) will object unless it doesn't.

All that is useless, of course, without numbers.

manitoba1073 · Sep 30, 2006, 04:04 AM // 04:04

[QUOTE=Cjlr]What I'd like to hear, just once, is a little substantiation. If inscriptions will wreck the economy, there must be a reason, right? I've heard not a one. Er, read. And to be fair, I only read about half the thread today. The other half I read yesterday, and maybe I forgot something.

actually i have posted several times why this will devestate GW. Cjlr maybe for some reason ppl still dont see so ill grab and paste it back here for you
used a staff as noone understood when i used swords and got stuck on just 15^50% parts lol and this part i cant stress enough also

bottom line the causual player will no longer even beable to afford a decent staff even. for those who think that there will be MORE supply, Anet HAS NOT and IS NOT going to increase the drop rates. we will only get more types of skins availiable NOT actuall numbers of mods availiable.

BEFORE
A. say raven staff 20% healling cast rate chance maybe 2-5k at most now
B.say raven staff 20% healling recharge rate chance maybe 2-5k at most now
4k-10k for the staffs before the inherent mod salvage comes along
AFTER
A. say raven staff 20% healling cast rate chance maybe 10-20k now
B.say raven staff 20% healling recharge rate chance maybe 10-20k now
10k-40k total price now cause of the inherent mod salvage

now if Anet relly wanted to lower the prices of golds the one and only real way to do it would be this and it was pointed out how effective that was
first method 3 parts to it to fix the problems with out the inscriptions salvage option
A. no inscription salvage implemented
1. lower the effect of the anti farm code
2. increase the drop percent of golds and greens
3. reput in the keyless chests to remote places liek the ones that where in dreadnaughts drifts

B. a form of inscription salvage implemented has one solution for all best one
1. merchants or a weaponsmith in certain locations that u can buy the inherent mods for ur weapons when u purchase the upgrade it also automatically customizes that weapon for that user. and the PvP side u can exhancge a small amout of balths points to switch mods
and that second part would solve the problem with having the inherent mods

PS mods did the ppl get banned on account of this thread, hope not, sorry to you guys if you did. some where very good arguements i thought and i appreciate all sides of this even if noones really seeing what i see happening when this takes affect. as it wont be the high end items that get affected

Two April Mornings · Sep 30, 2006, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

6 months down the line do you REALLY want guildwars to be left with nothing but whiners? because as long as anet caters to their will, it will slowly drive away people who care.

Exactly what I'm feeling.

This system of inscriptions will totally change the economy moreso than the addition of +5nrg weapons and better golds quality.

In the end, I am against inscriptions. There is no need for inscriptions.

EDIT:
If the system does go into use, I would love seeing at the bottom of weapons onto which Insciptions were added some type of message like: This weapon was put together using inscriptions.

There are ways in which ANET can thread a fine line by keeping high end golds valuable and by providing everyone with inherent mods. The above is one exampel which I think could work. Others in this thread have mentionned similar things such as the changing of weapons onto which Insciptions were added to a red color.

I still think its a bad idea though.

Tommy · Sep 30, 2006, 04:37 AM // 04:37

That is sad.. everyone from my age quit. I remember when i was in Hall or Heros guild.. we had alot of fun. bootie showed me his req8 15^50 crytalline.and i have found my mission of life in GW

to get a req8 crytalline. Akh is also a reason that i still working so hard

i alway dreaming someday i can reach his lvl,becoming one of the greatest trader ever and quit as a legend

now i really have nothing to accomplish in GW. i might as well quit

this upgrade will certain kill the old school gw population. too bad i can only quit as a loser with no money and no items

dammit

manitoba1073 · Sep 30, 2006, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy

That is sad.. everyone from my age quit. I remember when i was in Hall or Heros guild.. we had alot of fun. bootie showed me his req8 15^50 crytalline.
and i have found my mission of life in GW

to get a req8 crytalline. Akh is also a reason that i still working so hard

i alway dreaming someday i can reach his lvl,becoming one of the greatest trader ever and quit as a legend

now i really have nothing to accomplish in GW. i might as well quit

this upgrade will certain kill the old school gw population

i know how u feel tommy but ill still be around. maybe ill be able to finish my urgoz solo build, can get to the 2 lever room so far buts that all for now

oh and noone pm me about it either as its not finished yet

Roshi_ikkyu · Sep 30, 2006, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy

That is sad.. everyone from my age quit. I remember when i was in Hall or Heros guild.. we had alot of fun. bootie showed me his req8 15^50 crytalline.and i have found my mission of life in GW

to get a req8 crytalline. Akh is also a reason that i still working so hard

i alway dreaming someday i can reach his lvl,becoming one of the greatest trader ever and quit as a legend

now i really have nothing to accomplish in GW. i might as well quit

this upgrade will certain kill the old school gw population. too bad i can only quit as a loser with no money and no items

dammit

adding a few of these

didn't sen enough in your post.

Shame you should have the chance to quit a game with 1000k in stoarage and every slot full of ecto!

But I hear there is anew game out called Real Life: Reality.
There got a slack support system but the grind elelments of the game are amazing!. lil hard to quit but.

Mean while has this been confirmed anywhere from Anet, not a mag or other site?

manitoba1073 · Sep 30, 2006, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

adding a few of these

didn't sen enough in your post.

Shame you should have the chance to quit a game with 1000k in stoarage and every slot full of ecto!

But I hear there is anew game out called Real Life: Reality.
There got a slack support system but the grind elelments of the game are amazing!. lil hard to quit but.

Mean while has this been confirmed anywhere from Anet, not a mag or other site?

dont u think that was uncalled for.

nothing from anet yet though still waiting on them

Gli · Sep 30, 2006, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

BEFORE
A. say raven staff 20% healling cast rate chance maybe 2-5k at most now
B.say raven staff 20% healling recharge rate chance maybe 2-5k at most now
4k-10k for the staffs before the inherent mod salvage comes along
AFTER
A. say raven staff 20% healling cast rate chance maybe 10-20k now
B.say raven staff 20% healling recharge rate chance maybe 10-20k now
10k-40k total price now cause of the inherent mod salvage

I think this estimation is way off. Staffs with only a single perfect mod are worthless. Merchant fodder. And then there's the incompatible requirements, weird attribute combinations. The vast majority of found staffs is complete and utter rubbish. I'm betting thousands of staffs with a worthwhile inherent mod are thrashed on a daily basis because the total package is just unusable. When the possibility to harvest these mods arises, the market will be flooded with perfect 20%/10% mods like it's never been flooded with anything before. Staff inscriptions will be so abundant that I foresee people asking for them to be stackable.

That is, if inscriptions will work like everyone seems to assume they will work. They probably won't and 99% of the posts in this thread will be moot.

ZenRgy · Sep 30, 2006, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Collectors and crafters are there for a reason.

You want a perfect weapon with a cool skin? You earn it.

'Nuff said.

To Cjlr with party F though I don't know whether they would object/approve, having inscriptions means the prestige of perfect weapons is taken away, and are no longer as leet as they once were.