Curse

beta man · Sep 23, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Anet, hope the Inscriptions is true and 15^50 mod can be salavage. By doing this, 0.5% of the player will be unhappy, but 99.5% will be happy. those 0.5% well, too bad.
This inscription mod is a good reason for me to buy Nightfall as well.

Not that i m sour that i do not have "godly" req 7-8 ,skin and weapon, the difference is, i customised and use them. and if i m sick of that weapon, i really wish to salavage the inherent mod and put it on another weapon so i can customised it for the 20% dmg and use it. So i see that i only need 1 15^50 mod to meet my needs

spyke136 · Sep 23, 2006, 07:49 PM // 19:49

what's the point of "rare" items if everything that makes them "rare" and valuable can be traded, bought, changed, mixed, matched over and over. what's the difference between a r8 white max 15^50 weapon as opposed to a gold one with the same stats? the color? but who's really going to care, last time i checked, it's alot harder to find max whites than max golds. so are white max damage weapons going to be the new "elite" weapon type? if this does happen the economy is going to turn inside out. i cant imagine the devs would actually go through wiht this knowning the inevitable consequences.

btw all of the "poor" people who are happy this is happening because they'll finally be able to get that "rare" skin perfect weapon, you need a reality check. first of all, it's not going to be rare, perfect will mean nothing and frankly it isn't that hard to get these weapons now. i've been playing for barely 2 months and my storage is overflowing with these so called "perfect" weapons. this game isn't meant to be ultra elitist, but if it's going to have a sound economy there HAS to be an elite group. everything cant be equal, unless NightFall is based off the communist manifesto. if the economy in the game is supposed to resemble a free market economy, a capitalist one, then there has to be the "elite" items which not everyone can have. what would the world be like if everyone could afford ferraris and 40 million dollar mansions in beverly hills?

Dark Jester · Sep 23, 2006, 08:54 PM // 20:54

It seems highly unlikely to me that you will be able to add 15^50 mods to white items. A more likely approach is being able to swap inherent mods between Gold weapons only. Prices would drop a lot (which is good), but not enough to crash the price of everything.

TomD22 · Sep 23, 2006, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Would someone mind just explaining what this new system is? There'sa whole thread of frantic ranting about whether it's gonna be a good thing or wreck GW and ruin everyone's lives but i think i missed finding out what exactly the changes are meant to be.....

FeroxC · Sep 23, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Tell you what if all ANET realy cares about is the casual gamer than why bother with an economy, stop all drops, get rid of gold let the user select any items they want to use, including skins.

If your going to destroy the economy atleast do it properly.

Anybody that opposes my idea and still wants changeable inherited mods is just a poor n00b wanting cheap rare weopons without realising they cant be rare & cheap.

Coridan · Sep 23, 2006, 09:14 PM // 21:14

i think that they should just make 15^50s custom to the character that salvages it and then if they use it on a weapon....then that weapon should intern become customized :P simple solution...and actually lets players build thier own leet weapons they just don't have the resale value.

Alpha Moth · Sep 23, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

well i will be happy in a way i can mod my crystalline swrd

but, just takes the juice out of owning a 15^50 weapon

Loviatar · Sep 23, 2006, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by FeroxC

Tell you what if all ANET realy cares about is the casual gamer than why bother with an economy, stop all drops, get rid of gold let the user select any items they want to use, including skins.

.

having been there since early beta events let me give you three (3) examples that have occurred and are not simple speculation that helped the casual player.

1. sigels to get a guild hall at one time were between 75-100k each which made it hard on the casual player.

they increased the drops and people (on this forum) were putting them up for sale 30 at one shot.

what are prices now?

2. superior absorb runes were 100k which is hard on the casual player.

they increased the drop rate and you can check the latest price yourself.

3. RUNE SALVAGE which you seemed to lose that one you needed

guaranteed first salvage to increase the effective drop rate and look at rune prices now to help the casual gamer

NOW

they are increasing the effective drop rate of the mods by being able to choose which one you want

a the crappy one you got most of the time
b the really good one you almost never got.
c crafting materials

guaranteed success of the good mod that almost always was lost before will put many more on the market

"inscriptions" which will now be *transferable/sold* will drop that market as well benefiting most of their player base and as someone said really only about 1 % will really care and most will like it.

it is a game and if the makers decide to give everybody most things they can because they are only pixel items

jimmyhats · Sep 23, 2006, 10:36 PM // 22:36

i wouldnt be surprised if anet implemented this change. we all already know that they dont care about pve, theyre pvp carebears. so why not destroy the pve economy (again) with this new salvage system? now all the "poor" pvpers (i.e.- ones who dont win) can have lovely skinned pvp-quality items.

also, anet has always been pushing that pvp should be the endgame... if they eliminate all other forms of endgame (such as farming/item collection), whats left? pvp.

Loviatar · Sep 23, 2006, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyhats

i wouldnt be surprised if anet implemented this change. we all already know that they dont care about pve, theyre pvp carebears. so why not destroy the pve economy (again) with this new salvage system? now all the "poor" pvpers (i.e.- ones who dont win) can have lovely skinned pvp-quality items.

also, anet has always been pushing that pvp should be the endgame... if they eliminate all other forms of endgame (such as farming/item collection), whats left? pvp.

farmers have inflated somethings as it seems that most average people dont want to farm except in small doses if any.

the end of the game is when you complete it (end game) and whateve you do after finishing the game is up to you.

this has never been

FARM WARS
ITEM WARS
L33T WARS

it is a game that when you finish you put back on the shelf til the next event/chapter that you want to play

they will make 10k people happy for each pissed off ..........fill in that

The Herbalizer · Sep 23, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

having been there since early beta events let me give you three (3) examples that have occurred and are not simple speculation that helped the casual player.

1. sigels to get a guild hall at one time were between 75-100k each which made it hard on the casual player.

they increased the drops and people (on this forum) were putting them up for sale 30 at one shot.

what are prices now?

2. superior absorb runes were 100k which is hard on the casual player.

they increased the drop rate and you can check the latest price yourself.

3. RUNE SALVAGE which you seemed to lose that one you needed

guaranteed first salvage to increase the effective drop rate and look at rune prices now to help the casual gamer

NOW

they are increasing the effective drop rate of the mods by being able to choose which one you want

a the crappy one you got most of the time
b the really good one you almost never got.
c crafting materials

guaranteed success of the good mod that almost always was lost before will put many more on the market

"inscriptions" which will now be *transferable/sold* will drop that market as well benefiting most of their player base and as someone said really only about 1 % will really care and most will like it.
it is a game and if the makers decide to give everybody most things they can because they are only pixel items

Well....

Anet have stated that 80% of accounts have less than 20k gold.

The pc gamer magazine have said (I think) that the inscriptions would be hard to obtain.

There would be high demand for the inscriptions and there is low supply based on the pc gamer article stating they would be hard to obtain.

The high demand and low supply would lead to high prices. I can easily see them hitting 100k+.

Now if 80% of the Guild Wars community have less than 20k they will not be able to afford the expensive inscriptions. Maybe some will decide they want the inscriptions and farm like mad... Maybe some of the people in that 80% have spent all their gold and would save for the inscriptions...

If the majority of the Guild Wars community cannot afford to purchase them then the addition of inscriptions would be benefitting the minority of the Guild Wars population.

If 80% of the Guild Wars population have less than 20k then how would they afford expensive inscriptions? I would think the new armors, skills etc would use up their gold so I cannot see them going out of their way to aquire inscriptions.

Alot of people have claimed the addition of inscriptions would benefit the majority of Guild Wars players / 99% of them etc but I cannot see how this is true when 80% of the Guild Wars player base does not have more than 20k gold and the inscriptions would more than likely be very expensive.

It would seem the possible addition of inscriptions will benefit the minority and not the majority of Guild Wars players. It appears the inscriptions would be purchased by the richer minority of Guild Wars players (the 20% of Guild Wars players who have over 20k). I honestly could not see them going below 20k either as if they are hard to obtain the price would remain high as long as the demand is there.

Mods: I am just explaining who the potential market for the inscriptions is and is based on statistics provided by Anet.

Loviatar · Sep 23, 2006, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

Well....

Anet have stated that 80% of accounts have less than 20k gold.

The pc gamer magazine have said (I think) that the inscriptions would be hard to obtain.

]

here is the magazine quote and you decide if any difficulty is implied.

to me it looks easy. either use it yourself or turn it for quick gold

you decide

Quote:

GW's armor, weapons, and salvaging systems have also been tweaked in some important ways. "Inscriptions" will take the place of inherent bonus modifiers for weapons and can be transferred between most weapons or sold for quick cash. The armor system will be simplified to allow you to replace individual components (say, a breastplate) instead of purchasing a new set. Nightfall will also help crafters by allowing them to select which component they would like to salvage from a weapon, with the extra bonus of not having the rest of the weapon disintegrate after the process is complete.

Skyy High · Sep 23, 2006, 11:23 PM // 23:23

You have precisely zero justification for any of these claims.

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

1. lets see we'll prolly start seeing ppl selling whites for 100k+

Why? Just because you can mod a white weapon to 15^50 with perfect stats, doesn't change the fact that whites drop like candy. Max whites are perfectly common. There's no reason why anyone would buy a white base weapon for that much; it'd be faster to farm it than to farm the cash to buy it.

Quote:

2. no more of a need or want for greens or collectors items

As opposed to now? Collector's and greens will still have perfect stats if you can't or don't feel like finding all the parts you need. Some greens will still have unique skins, and these are the only greens that are worth jack anyway nowadays.

Quote:

3. mass explosion in the numbers of bots and farming shops multipling thus making things even more ridiculous expensive

You're kidding right? When you can mod any max white weapon from the bottom up, you don't need to buy the gold weapons that take time to farm. The only reason bots are used is because spending time farming is profitable. If you can find all you need in, say, an hour or less of killing stuff, there would be no market for a bot's wares.

Quote:

its a wonderfull game i love and enjoy playing it. but i see a big problem with the new type of salvage of inscriptions and not just for PvE. i see it even reaching into PvP causeing probs like with the +5 ep and Lts helm. abuses are bound to be endless. i hope im not the only one that sees the possiblities and consequences with this. and in another post someones alrdy mentions how they planned to take serious explotaion of the new salv oppertunities.

What abuses? How can this be abused, and how will it effect pvp chars? PvE chars will still be able to equip more weapons than pvp chars, just like now; this changes absolutely nothing between the PvE - PvP char dynamic.

Quote:

all i ask is for everyone to keep there mind open about this and during the preview post ur views here on this subjct only. NO MENTION of personal loss or that likes plzz. and mods dont delete this one its a valid point

You're asking people not to whine after their weapons depreciate in value a couple hundred plat? Good luck with that.

sumrtym · Sep 24, 2006, 12:37 AM // 00:37

OK several things I see from this.

1. Req will now rule whether it's gold, blue, or white. I see this as a positive change. If people are willing to pay more cause it's gold text, well, good for them. I'll continue to laugh as your weapon other than for you is not gold (only see that in a trade window), so who cares.

2. Greater availibility of mods. Instead of keeping 4 swords with different mod types (enchantment, +30, energy +5, 15>50, etc.), I'll just keep sword MODS with ONE skin of the sword I like and change it out as needed. If they allow this on CUSTOMIZED weapons, then given the significantly easier method of getting weapon skins, I can say have a req 8 zodiac bow on my critical ranger, and one on my real ranger, and still be able to CUSTOMIZE both of them cause now I can just swap bow mods back and forth. All my damage just went up by 20% with reduced sharing problems (in terms of gettting the base skin and now mods with mods shared).

3. Solves storage problems. Having the mods I want will take up significantly less room as I can share them across ALL my characters, so each char just needs the skin they want and can CUSTOMIZE their weapon (something I never do now for selling / sharing between chars). This will give me more storage space than almost any change, accept one that I think they're suggesting.....

4. Replace individual components of armor. Ok, we can do that now. What I THINK this implies is that I could swap my armor piece of one stat set for another one (probably with a cheap 1k fee). If they also allow me a fee, for all but FoW armor to change the skin between 1.5k to 1.5k armors or 15k to 15k armors, then I'm in hog heaven. How much room did I just save not having multiple armors of every stat? Although, realistically, if this did work it doesn't solve it completely...my armors all have different dyes that I'm sure don't replicate in switching. However, just taking my favorite armor and paying 1k to switch the stat type on that piece is worth a lot. I may just buy one set then, the one I like the most.

These two changes solve a lot of money / grind issues, plus inventory, without the need for additional inventory. It's a smart decision. If the part of the base that likes to spend 20 hours on the weekend grinding for a drop they may not get leaves, well, bye. You're not adding anything to my game anyway cause you're not partnering in missions, you're solo farming and chest running. Impact on me as a player....zero. Those that stick around can spend more time as a community PLAYING together, being helpful, enjoying the game, rather than GRINDING for what we want. It's a brilliang change all in all, cause what I like is being able to play with friends for a while, to enjoy the game, not endless GRIND. Casual game without fee, vs. lifesucking charge ya to spend all your free time on a game MMORPG. I like the nich.

manitoba1073 · Sep 24, 2006, 03:53 AM // 03:53

now whike i was at work i was thinking of ways to make it viable for everyone to be happy. one is to not implenet the inscriptions and the others is with allowing inscritptions.

first method 3 parts to it to fix the problems with out the inscriptions salvage option
A. no inscription salvage implemented
1. lower the effect of the anti farm code
2. increase the drop percent of golds and greens
3. reput in the keyless chests to remote places liek the ones that where in dreadnaughts drifts

B. a form of inscription salvage implemented has one solution for all best one
1. merchants or a weaponsmith in certain locations that u can buy the inherent mods for ur weapons when u purchase the upgrade it also automatically customizes that weapon for that user. and the PvP side u can exhancge a small amout of balths points to switch mods

Originally Posted by manitoba1073
1. lets see we'll prolly start seeing ppl selling whites for 100k+

Originally Posted by Skyy High
Why? Just because you can mod a white weapon to 15^50 with perfect stats, doesn't change the fact that whites drop like candy. Max whites are perfectly common. There's no reason why anyone would buy a white base weapon for that much; it'd be faster to farm it than to farm the cash to buy it.
1 its not the white itself but the mods on them that will sell for that much.

Akhilleus · Sep 24, 2006, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by FeroxC

Tell you what if all ANET realy cares about is the casual gamer than why bother with an economy, stop all drops, get rid of gold let the user select any items they want to use, including skins.

If your going to destroy the economy atleast do it properly.

Anybody that opposes my idea and still wants changeable inherited mods is just a poor n00b wanting cheap rare weopons without realising they cant be rare & cheap.

this is the heart of my argument.
nice to see someone who understands what i mean. as ive stated before, noone NEEDS golds, they exist for the sole purpose of ascetics and collections, so theres no use in killing their value, toher than to spite the people who have worked for them in the name of the people who bitch and moan. the ONLY people who complain about the prices of items are the oens who are too lazy or incompitent to work for them. Period. even many poorer players agree on this point, as the kind of person who wants everything handed to them, is not necissarily the kind of person legitimate gamers want to play with in any form, since its a whole line of mentality...the idea that "i payed for this game...now i shouldnt have to work for any of the rewards in it" people with this line of thinking care only about themselves, not about the game or the other players. unfortunatly, since gaming has gotten more popular in the last decade, these people have become more and more numerous. 10 years ago beggars, ebayers, and people who bitched and moaned that they didnt have the same stuff as people who had been playing the same game for 5 times longer, didnt exist in nearly as high of a quantity.
my point? i played diablo1 for 6 years, starcraft for 7, diablo2 for 3, warcraft3 for 2, guildwars for 15 months...im loyal to the games i play, and so are most 1st generation gamers. the newer, layzer breed of gamer wants all the stuff handed to them up front, and then ditches the game 2 months later, and never bothers to get the sequel. is the latter really the kind of person you want to game with? i should hope not.

though, i will concede there are some people who are in favor of this idea, without being greedy...in fact they think it will do some good, but i firmly believe this is a slightly misguided (if not well-serving) point of view. people as this are concerned about the well-being of the game and its playerbase, but just took the wrong path because they may not see the long-term ramifications.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

having been there since early beta events let me give you three (3) examples that have occurred and are not simple speculation that helped the casual player.

1. sigels to get a guild hall at one time were between 75-100k each which made it hard on the casual player.

they increased the drops and people (on this forum) were putting them up for sale 30 at one shot.

what are prices now?

2. superior absorb runes were 100k which is hard on the casual player.

they increased the drop rate and you can check the latest price yourself.

3. RUNE SALVAGE which you seemed to lose that one you needed

guaranteed first salvage to increase the effective drop rate and look at rune prices now to help the casual gamer

NOW

they are increasing the effective drop rate of the mods by being able to choose which one you want

a the crappy one you got most of the time
b the really good one you almost never got.
c crafting materials

guaranteed success of the good mod that almost always was lost before will put many more on the market

"inscriptions" which will now be *transferable/sold* will drop that market as well benefiting most of their player base and as someone said really only about 1 % will really care and most will like it.

it is a game and if the makers decide to give everybody most things they can because they are only pixel items

now, you have a valid point that anet decreased the price of runes&sigils...however, you overlooked something. the fact that superior absorptions were NOT available to a majority of players, nor were sigils, was a matter of balancing. it put people on a different level of ability to function (to a higher or lesser degree) because their equipment, in terms of stats, was lesser than that of players of higher means.
this is not the case with golds.
if you think my killing power is increased when i wield my customized 8 15>50 crystalline sword, you'd be mistaken. stat-wise it is identical to any other r8 15>50 3:1 vampiric +30 hp sword, it makes zero difference in the line of battle.
however, being unable to afford a superior absorbtion (theoretically) makes a difference, so anet made them mroe readily available. heck, i even 100% agree with this nerf, i think it was the right thing to do...same with the introduction of green weapons...greens are 100% ingenious. they provide a MUCH cheaper avanue for obtaining maximum stat weapons (some with decent skins too), but didnt have an effect on the more decent gold items...everyones happy (to varying degrees). same with sigils...sigils being 100K is a bad thing, since a persons financial means should have zero bearing on their ability to adequetly form and operate a guild (at least in my opinion).
but, once again, with gold weapons this is not the case.
there is absolutly no legitimate argument (other than greed) for why someone needs to have a perfectly modded weapon handed to them on a silver platter.

my argument is not so much to protect my own wealth as it is to protect the sanctity of the enjoyment others have in having something to work for. a majority of the poorer players i know want gold items, and want nicely skinned ones, but simentaneously understand that if they are going to have them, they will have to work for them, begging will not get the job done.
beggars should not be rewarded, for once you cater to them, they will be back with even more absurd demands.
give a man a fish and feed him for a day, show a man how to fish and feed him for a lifetime.

ubermancer · Sep 24, 2006, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

give a man a fish and feed him for a day, show a man how to fish and feed him for a lifetime.

Until he exhausts his food source, that is.

Or glutons himself to immobility.

Yawgmoth · Sep 24, 2006, 05:26 AM // 05:26

The "80% accounts under 20k " statement is about 1 year OLD, currently the amount is much higher. Especially due to lots of changes that Factions brought. Also to speak about economy, only active accounts should be considered, and most of the very poor ones aren't. Even the most casual players that care about gold/items/skins it have more.

I'm very worried about the new possibilities that are coming because they can totally destroy the economy if not done right. And that is not a nice thing to do instead of providing us a decent trading system.
Hunting for perfect golds is the endgame pve for many, killing that by handing everyone an easy way to make yourself a perfect anything on demand is just completely wrong.

The only upside I see is dropping the prices of perfect upgrades like +30fortitude or 20/20 sundering, which shouldnt be worth as much as they are, cus they're needed not only for expensive golds but cheap collectors items aswell.
However getting perfect 'inscriptions' should be more challenging than just taking them out of one of plentiful perfect golds currently available.

So please Anet, don't screw up with this, give it a serious thought and don't listen to hordes of jealous whiners who wan't to get a perfect Crystalline for free.

dansamy · Sep 24, 2006, 05:35 AM // 05:35

I like the new salvage system, or at least the way I've read it.

Levi Garett · Sep 24, 2006, 06:10 AM // 06:10

You guys should all just chill out and see exactly how this new system is going to work. Some of you might be getting all worked up over nothing.

Regardless of the amount of money I'm going to loose I'll be happy if this new system saves me storage space! That's worth a couple million gold for me!

Perhaps a better question that I'm more interested in:

What's going to be the thing that idiots will pay 100+ ecto for during the first week or two after Nightfall release (that ends up being worth 5 ecto 1-2 months later)? You know like Zodiac items were right after Factions release...

What materials will be in high demand?

How will this affect ecto prices?

Of course nobody can really answer these questions, but those are the types of things I'd be intersted in.

On another note-Ahk and the other guys with unconditional modded items: Would you really take the chance on pulling that mod (or inscription?) from an item like that? What if the game just didn't know hot to handle it and it *poofed*? A 15% unconditional item/mod is priceless so I don't know if I would risk it. Let us know how it works out though!