Curse

EPO Bot · Oct 14, 2006, 08:32 AM // 08:32

I hate topics like this: I just want to play my favorite game and enjoy it until my eyes go red, but there are always people who tab me on the shoulder to point out why GW is a terrible game or at least, going down the hill.

The truth itself · Oct 14, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16

If you want pure RP games, please go somewhere else. GW never intended to be a full RP game, it's an action game.

Do not seperate GW:RP from GW:PVP even more, that would be the worst idea.

Why is it, that you want your PvE characters to be stronger?
There is really no point, since if they characters are strongers, the creeps are also getting stronger to the same extend, it's only a psycological factor, that you need to realize is nothing.

"Skill > time" also applies in PvE mode. I don't want to waste more time getting an equal footing with others. If i wanted that, i'd play something else.

/rant

Superdarth · Oct 14, 2006, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Ok some of you need to understand a few things

Firstly:Guild Wars is not in any way a copy of WoW or any other MMO,if you want it to be as huge and time consuming as a game like WoW youd better prepeare to pay the price,i do not doubt that a monthly fee will come should A-Net decide to go down the familliar path.

Secondly:You now have a very good game in all aspects,Prophecies is the best for PvE and many PvE'ers enjoy it,Factions is a great addition in that its more geared towards PvP,and will be more enjoyable to PvP'ers.

Basicly,you now have a game strong in both PvE and PvP.

I dont know what Nightfall will do,but from the event i did i can tell you the island has some rather nice quests in my opinion,there very unlike factions quests for the most part,i recommend buying it.

Lastly:Ripped off?Well its a helluvalot cheaper then other games.

Cow Tale · Oct 14, 2006, 11:52 AM // 11:52

why are u all so hard on factions? seems fine to me. i admit prophecies was better but idc. paying 49.95 isnt that big of a deal. get a job ullmake that in a few hours. not liek ure buying a car or a house or something. if u dont like that price im sure u can goto walmart and buy some old 2002 game for 9.99.
factions added lots of cool stuff to the game. you're all complaining about money sinks etc. if ure not gonan spend your money on it what else are u gonna spend it on? if u dont want your gw cash u can give it to me, ill spend it! Nightfall will be awesome just liek the first two were. just running around in new enviorments is worth the 49.95. only things i dotn liek about gws is the fact that u cant make ur character fat, and u have such a limited amount of models to choose from. i think the models should all be universal! and your armor would distinguish your class. nightfall ftw.

dreamhunk · Oct 14, 2006, 02:30 PM // 14:30

It comes down to making money, doesnot matter what you think! In the end it comes down to money!

If gw is not making money or starts losing money you can say by by gw

Myria · Oct 14, 2006, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by The truth itself

If you want pure RP games, please go somewhere else.

It amazes me how common this self-defeating 'advice' is around here. If (or when) enough people go 'somewhere else' there will be no GW.

Quote:

GW never intended to be a full RP game, it's an action game.

Insert obligitory "It's called 'Guild Wars', so it's about guilds at war!" comment here (yes, and 'Half-life' is about having half a life and 'Final Fantasy' really is the final fantasy).

Everyone seems to have their own idea of what GW is and was intended to be. Conveniently, those ideas always seem to match up with whatever the person expressing them wants the game to be.

Quote:

Do not seperate GW:RP from GW:PVP even more, that would be the worst idea.

I'm honestly curious as to why you feel this way.

By and large, PVPers and PVEers have mutually exclusive goals and desires in-game, anything that pleases one group is bound to displease the other. Animosity between the two groups is nigh unto inevitable, furthering a natural rift between the two camps. This ends up costing Anet customers, in the end I suspect it costs them more customers than having a PVP/PVE marriage. With one foot already in divorce court (the pet DP issue), the notion that PVP and PVE must follow the exact same rules becomes harder to justify, especially to the PVE-camp.

Given all of this, I see little benefit, to either customers or Anet, to keeping the PVE/PVP marriage, and plenty of benefit to attempting an amicable divorce. Absent one, I suspect the first decent game that comes along that matches many of GW's features (Yes, primarily the no-pay-to-play) without the PVP baggage, PVEers will jump ship in droves (Hellgate, anyone?). I expect the same would probably be true in the reverse.

Quote:

Why is it, that you want your PvE characters to be stronger?

Positive reinforcement. Any game is an exercise in fulfilling goals, much like real life. In a game the available goals and ways to fulfill them are limited, in GW this is even more true than most games. Because character advancement has traditionally been the primary goal of most games (yes, even FPSes, you don't generally get all your feral powers and a BFG 9000 on the first level), it's lack is where the limitations inherent in GW's design are felt the most.

Quote:

There is really no point, since if they characters are strongers, the creeps are also getting stronger to the same extend, it's only a psycological factor, that you need to realize is nothing.

Everything in a game is 'nothing', making a game (or movie, or book, or any other form of entertainment) enjoyable is a matter of playing on psychological factors.

Thallandor · Oct 14, 2006, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Alot of people dont understand that it doesnt matter whether what a game is or isnt. The simple truth is, when things gets old and boring, people will leave it for newer more interesting games regardless of how perfect its is build for PvP or what ever you think its made for.

Lesser players buy newer chapter, lesser profits to keep building on the game. Fanbois will continue to proclaim that they will sell all their possession to have the company keep the game alive, but the truth is, the game has to keep appealing to a larger gamer base to stay alive.

A classic example is DDO, Dungeons and Dragons Online. Personally i think it sucked cause its basically a GW clone with a monthly subcription fee but its not the point of reference. DDO fanbois have always agure for Turbine not to include PvP and that it has no place in the DDO world. But guess what? The server population dipped and many players quit and cancelled their subs. Turbine finally gave into popular request and plan to release more dungeons and PvP despite of its fanboi's protest. Players will only replay a dungeon so many times until they die of heart failure from boredom.

The example does and will apply to Guilds Wars. Despite of what we think how the game should play, if there isnt enough players buying new chapter every 6 months, you might as well quit now then to save yourself the agnoy when Anet shut its servers down. If Anet really treasure its player base, then it too will have to be creative and try to tab into markets previously unthough of or unconventional....or be hard assed about it and let the game die. Personally i would play as long my friends keep playing.

So please stop telling others how they should be playing their games and to F12 uninstall just because they have different ideas from yourself.

Cjlr · Oct 14, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myria

Insert obligitory "It's called 'Guild Wars', so it's about guilds at war!" comment here (yes, and 'Half-life' is about having half a life and 'Final Fantasy' really is the final fantasy).

That's exactly why we need better titles. Forget sounding cool. We need ones that deliver what they promise. Like Snakes on a Plane. Sure, wasn't exactly a great movie, but you're guaranteed to know what to expect going in.

And then there's Invasion of the Mutant Space Bats of DOOM. You can't possibly have any illusions as to what the gameplay will entail there

.

The truth itself · Oct 14, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

It amazes me how common this self-defeating 'advice' is around here. If (or when) enough people go 'somewhere else' there will be no GW.

We cannot make the game for everyone, That's why there are loads of other games out there you can play. It's all about choice, basically, GW isn't a good choice if you think Factions was the worst piece of crap ever.

Quote:

Insert obligitory "It's called 'Guild Wars', so it's about guilds at war!" comment here (yes, and 'Half-life' is about having half a life and 'Final Fantasy' really is the final fantasy).

I never said this.

Quote:

Everyone seems to have their own idea of what GW is and was intended to be. Conveniently, those ideas always seem to match up with whatever the person expressing them wants the game to be.

I was building my idea of GW, out of the origional "Skill > time" factor.
Whatever idea you have of this game, that idea needs to maintain the core idea.

Quote:

I'm honestly curious as to why you feel this way.

By and large, PVPers and PVEers have mutually exclusive goals and desires in-game, anything that pleases one group is bound to displease the other. Animosity between the two groups is nigh unto inevitable, furthering a natural rift between the two camps. This ends up costing Anet customers, in the end I suspect it costs them more customers than having a PVP/PVE marriage. With one foot already in divorce court (the pet DP issue), the notion that PVP and PVE must follow the exact same rules becomes harder to justify, especially to the PVE-camp.

Given all of this, I see little benefit, to either customers or Anet, to keeping the PVE/PVP marriage, and plenty of benefit to attempting an amicable divorce. Absent one, I suspect the first decent game that comes along that matches many of GW's features (Yes, primarily the no-pay-to-play) without the PVP baggage, PVEers will jump ship in droves (Hellgate, anyone?). I expect the same would probably be true in the reverse.

It's a question between if you want to make a game the masses love, or make a game you love.

Quote:

Positive reinforcement. Any game is an exercise in fulfilling goals, much like real life. In a game the available goals and ways to fulfill them are limited, in GW this is even more true than most games. Because character advancement has traditionally been the primary goal of most games (yes, even FPSes, you don't generally get all your feral powers and a BFG 9000 on the first level), it's lack is where the limitations inherent in GW's design are felt the most.

I don't see a problem. When you start off your new game, the enemies are easy and therefor, you don't need many ways or weapons to kill them. And as time passes, basically, when you gain more advantages, so does the other part. You really don't become stronger if you compare yourself to the enemies. It's just understanding. I value equal footing above the psycological factor of "feeling stronger".

HOMIE_G64 · Oct 14, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Look, I really don't get why people absolutely have to HATE the sequels. Yes, $50 is overpriced but still, MANY players have already beaten the missions over and over again and are getting bored of it. Many PvP strategies have been gone over thrice and done four times. Many people are missing out on the Guild Wars fun because they didn't buy it. Now lets see what happens when Factions come out. New missions are introduced and people start PvEing again. New skills bring new strategies, and new characters bring even more strategies. Newbs can now buy GW: Factions instead of Guild Wars and just start playing. Viola. You introduced: More PvEing, More PvPing, and more players.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 14, 2006, 05:03 PM // 17:03

I loathe threads like this. A few people arent satisfied with a game and so they declare that a game is dead.

I hate to be one of those that just says "If you dont like it, then go play something else" but really what else can you do? If something makes you so unhappy then get away from it. Making constructive criticisms is fine, but starting a thread delaring that the future of GW is in trouble is pointless.

People will leave the game. That's a fact for ANY game. There's nothing self defeating about that, it's just something that happens and nothing anyone can do about it. But the fact is, that GW is doing very well.

Just let these Chicken Little threads die out....

Myria · Oct 14, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by The truth itself

We cannot make the game for everyone, That's why there are loads of other games out there you can play. It's all about choice, basically, GW isn't a good choice if you think Factions was the worst piece of crap ever.

I fear your logic wholly escapes me.

Many people loved Prophecies but despised Factions, does that mean that GW is not for them? Why so? Especially when what we've seen of Nightfall would indicate that Factions was the anomalous chapter. Why would one's like or dislike of GW:Factions be deterministic?!?

Quote:

I never said this.

No, but you did say "GW never intended to be a full RP game, it's an action game.", which struck me as being along the same vein.

Quote:

I was building my idea of GW, out of the origional "Skill > time" factor.
Whatever idea you have of this game, that idea needs to maintain the core idea.

To be honest, I've no real idea what that oft-used "Skill > time" phrase is supposed to mean, exactly. One presumes that few are born with inherent full knowledge of GW in all of its aspects, thus, as with any other game or activity, time is required for one to gain skill. How GW is different from any other game in this respect escapes me. I suspect that what's really meant is "Skill > items (because there are no uber-items)", but even that really isn't true. Try doing the Fire island missions with no runes, in starter armor, and with a starter weapon and starter skills. While the range between starter items and the best of the best is far less than many other games -- wether this is a feature or a bug depends on one's POV -- it most assuredly is very real.

Quote:

It's a question between if you want to make a game the masses love, or make a game you love.

The former always wins over the latter.

Quote:

I don't see a problem. When you start off your new game, the enemies are easy and therefor, you don't need many ways or weapons to kill them. And as time passes, basically, when you gain more advantages, so does the other part. You really don't become stronger if you compare yourself to the enemies. It's just understanding. I value equal footing above the psycological factor of "feeling stronger".

Again I fear I fail to grasp you logic. If relative player vs. enemy parity is maintained, how is scaling that not 'equal footing'? In other words, how are equal footing and gaining levels mutually exclusive?

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 14, 2006, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Sorry Myria. But everything you seem to want changed with Guild Wars points to you being better off playing a completely different game altogether.

GW is a PVE AND PVP game. And your PVE characters are never going to get "stronger" than level 20. I hate to just sound like I'm telling you to go away and play something else but when someone asks their apples to taste like oranges, then why not just go eat an orange?

Byzantine · Oct 14, 2006, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Myria is most likely trolling so its best not to feed the troll by replying to this thread.

-Loki- · Oct 14, 2006, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Skullcrasher

I just want to add few things to this. A-Net claimed that Guild Wars is all about skills not items.

They said it's all about skill. Player skill. Not in game skills.

Lawnmower · Oct 14, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder. I feel it's easy to feel jealous, if looking at GW and starting to compare it to WoW.

Im jealous at WoW. I want the game im playing to be the most popular, loved and talked about online game. But it just ain't, and I can't change that...

Most of the time I just miss to play with cool people. RL family and friends play WoW. Hate GW.

The PvP is to hard for me, and I just got my 15K. Suddenly the urge to want to play Nightfall has dissaperared and I have started looking back at the dreaded Neverwinter Nights 2 and WoW: Burning Crusade. I dunno.

It all comes down to what we want from the games we play. I don't understand why the PvP has to be so hard or full of assholes who rage quit, act like losers and just being childish. And all the guilds I have been in... Just none I can find with really and truly cool people that makes me laugh or make me want to play with them.

I don't think GW is a sinking ship. Not at all. If anything, stuff like Heroes is an indication that you dont even need other players anymore to play the game. But I could imagine the game being in decline as far as attention and popularity goes. I dunno. I love my character in his 15k. I freakin love him. I gave my soul for all does freakin hours worth of stupid troll farming what that damn anti farm code on.

The way I feel, is that GW needs some major technology and game upgrades. As far as I see it, the game has flaws on every level on its infastructure, from design sheet to retailed product we have today. I feel Anet has to take some changes and change some significant things in the game, to improve it.

I don't feel like playing through any lvl 10 campaigns or getting a few more skills with a few different numbers. I will buy NF though out of principle of that I support and love Anet as a company. As for playing it, I doubt it... the preview event rocked though.

sindex · Oct 15, 2006, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Ah so it’s the most popular game you want I see. Well guess what, it’s not going to happen, because things occur at certain paces (“sarcasm” of course 2 million people does not allocate a very popular game “sarcasm”). I guess Neverwinter Nights should have died a long time ago; just like Civilization 4 and The Sims, considering how according to you guys state they are, “Are so boring after you pick them up from the retail store” (the ADD generation indeed). Nothing keeps you guys happy it’s sad really; some games will live on though with you’re without your support though (the sour attitudes and spoiled people of course). Also to declare other people by the word “Fanboy's,” is very deeming in some ways, because some of these people defend other players when they are taken advantage of (like me). There are is problems within GW universe (game-play wise) but it sounds like you people want quick results. That is what gets me angry the idea that sometimes developers change things for their audience but they hate it any way’s (instead of saying at time “nice try” or “maybe next time”). No optimism because to you guys it’s either greatness or just playing “rejected crud.” Of course GW will not last forever, that’s why there is end point to certain things (except to the James Bond movies).

Silly Warrior · Oct 15, 2006, 05:07 AM // 05:07

All I can say on this subject matter is this: The expansions can't repeat themselves.

We need new gameplay types, and fast.

Even though the number of players playing is more than ever, it won't stay that way, all games need a stick, a reason to continue playing. You can only play HoH so many times before you get bored.

So, Nightfall or Chapter 4 have to both have ALOT of features and things we've never seen, and that means sadly venturing into Roleplaying and RL, something Guild Wars never wanted to do. Fishing, Cooking, Crafting, its probably going to get implemented in some way shape or form by the end of series, no doubt in my mind.

And hate to say it, but if NF doesn't boast a few more features than buffed up henchmen, the series in that of itself will dieout, especially if C4 is bad.

Cow Tale · Oct 15, 2006, 07:56 AM // 07:56

all games die out eventually, except counter-strike. half-life doesnt stand for having half a life, what are u talkin about? half-life is the time it takes radioactive particles to deteriorate. gw will of course die someday. but not for a long long time. i mean crap theres still people playing starcraft over battle.net! i dont nescisarily buy games for new content, *looks over shoulder at massive collection of 3d shooters* look at all those games! they are all identical except new skins for weapons and different levels. people still buy them as they come out. people will still buy new gw as they come out. i know i will. i might even keep at it if they started charging monthly. why cant u all be positive and not be so negative. if you dont like a game dont play it, no one wants to here you complain about the games they like, goto a guild wars hate page or something! =) lol there has to be one in existence, there is for everything else!

Myria · Oct 16, 2006, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

Sorry Myria. But everything you seem to want changed with Guild Wars points to you being better off playing a completely different game altogether.

I have said little or nothing about what I would like to see changed, my posts in this thread have been driven by my curiousity over why others feel certain things -- specifically "Do not seperate GW:RP from GW:PVP even more, that would be the worst idea.". I am, as I said, honestly curious as to why some feel this way. To date I have not read a remotely coherent explanation. The detriments of the PVP/PVE marriage are many and clear, the benifits escape me... Thus, my curiousity.

Quote:

GW is a PVE AND PVP game.

See : Logic, circular.

Quote:

And your PVE characters are never going to get "stronger" than level 20.

Perhaps, perhaps not, these are words that have been spoken before in other games, no doubt with strength of conviction and intention, and yet they turned out to be false in the end. Regardless, I did not say anything about whether or not I wanted the level-cap raised, I simply responded to another poster's questions on the subject.