Curse

DoctorEvil · May 05, 2006, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by felinette

Ah, yes, but how many new people will pick up a future chapter when current players of the game tell them not to bother or to wait until it's been out for a while, and they read forums about the last chapter that are more critical than not. Word of mouth can be a powerful thing among gamers. You want to appeal to new gamers, but at the same time, you certainly don't want to shaft your current ones.

That's an excellent point. I know personally I'll never buy the Star Wars online game because of all of the bad word of mouth it has gotten. Word of mouth is very powerful in the gaming world.

But at the same time I'm at a loss as to how to explain the longevity of games like Magic the Gathering, Everquest, Dungeons & Dragons, other than the fact that they have done a very good job on the marketing end of the business to attract new customers.

Andy_M · May 05, 2006, 08:28 PM // 20:28

I didn't get factions straight away (I waited until Lunchtime), I figured Anet deserved my money anyway.

Buuut, I must admit a feeling of general disappointment. I like to work for my stuff, not get all my levels on a plate and then get told to go pvp. I mean I did my first 15 point attribute quest when I was level 8 ferrchrissake ! Blimey those used to be a reward for getting a decent way into the game and then ascension (2nd quest) not for doing the first mission in the bloody game !

My point is it just does not feel epic compared to Prophecies (which in itself is unfinished in my opinion). Where are the quests akin to Altheas Ashes ? Or Galrath ? Getting to the Courthouse, Ice Tooth cave, Marhans, Mineral Springs just for the hell of it ? Where is the equivalent ?

Just pouring wave after wave of enemies at us isn't fun. It's supposed to be fun, right ?

EagleEye33 · May 05, 2006, 08:32 PM // 20:32

The game has only been out for a week, those small updates can sometimes do a lot. I saw your problem when I first read your post in that you finished the game in 3 days. Of course your unsatisfied. The games content was made to have an estimated "6 months fun playing time" till another chapter.

You need to slow down and enjoy the game. And yes you can finish prophecies in 3 days as well, I would have if I didnt stop to enjoy it more. Also they had a lot more time to work on prophecies cause its the starter chapter to kinda "set the rules".

Yes we did get a lot with GW, but with GWF will still get quite a bit, and with one of the posters putting up other values with $50 to do other things. (like gas, man does that suck) you get way more hours of fun.

On a anohter note, it takes a hell of a lot of work just to make a game, scenery alone (which is beautiful, like just about everything else). So when you implement the time it takes to do these kind of things $50 bucks isnt that bad. I can play this for hrs and days and its all good. Give it some more time to make an opinion like this.

As for Chapter 3, if they wanna focus more on PvP thats cool, i was interested with it from getgo but, its sucks. Things dont sem quite balanced yet. Rank issues a whole thread of rants and whatnot lol. HA is corupted with big meanies

. As long as they dont complete destory PvE it may not be that bad.
All stories have to end in video games. A GW trilogy seems ok to me. I have not finished factions yet so i will not make my opinion on the story as yet.
GW has millions of fans, judging from comments ive seen, the "graph" isnt going up or down....its all wobbley in the middle

Age · May 05, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by felinette

I'd be happy if they released new areas every six months that plug into the existing world (preferably Tyria). There are plenty of stories they could write about people we've already met in Prophecies (and now Factions). I'd pay for new content with interesting quests and missions. I don't need new skills, new professions, etc. Just give me more to do with my existing characters or the incentive to create new ones. I agree that there's only so much they can do with the skill system, and many skills are getting repetitive.

Well said and I will add to make more missions and quests not just make the game harder but more like I said.

Omni Spirit · May 05, 2006, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

In my view Chapter 3 and all future Chapters will continue to sell well because all they have to do is copy and paste the same content over and over again -like how they copied and pasted the PVP content and Fissure & UW from Chapter 1 into Factions - add a few new aesthetic changes to armor, weapons, and collectibles, and then they have pleased the vast majority of their customers who will love the "new" game despite all it's copy and pasted content.

Just copy & paste chapters over and over???

Gamers aren't dumb, if Anets attempts to do that just once, the gamers will burn them quick.

myword · May 05, 2006, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

That's wierd, House of Zu Helter is packed with people grinding out faction to get amber or boost their alliance standing - and Ft Apsenwood is about 5 minutes walk away. With henchies.

Ft Aspenwood is a ghost town for a reason. The random 8v8 sucks.

i don't think it's only just because it sucks, but it's not time efficient for grinding faction, challenge missions are faster/easier if you pick the right one

Navaros · May 05, 2006, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omni Spirit

Just copy & paste chapters over and over???

Gamers aren't dumb, if Anets attempts to do that just once, the gamers will burn them quick.

Not many people seem to mind how they have already done it with much of the content of Factions (ie: Chapter 1's PVP Areas).

Omni Spirit · May 05, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Not many people seem to mind how they have already done it with much of the content of Factions (ie: Chapter 1's PVP Areas).

Agreed....hence so many unhappy people with Anet now.

Rogier · May 05, 2006, 08:46 PM // 20:46

/signed
unless a.net is really improving, i won't buy any new chapters...

MelechRic · May 05, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

That's wierd, House of Zu Helter is packed with people grinding out faction to get amber or boost their alliance standing - and Ft Apsenwood is about 5 minutes walk away. With henchies.

Ft Aspenwood is a ghost town for a reason. The random 8v8 sucks.

Anthore set of reasons why needing alliance control of outposts is messing with the casual player. Faction farming... the new pastime.

Mimi Miyagi · May 05, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoctorEvil

Upon re-reading my response I see I left out a paragraph

That "lack of sustanability because of design limitation" is a moot point if GW can find a way to appeal to a new audience. MtG had the same design limitations yet it is still alive today. Why is it?

The existing player base is not what's going to keep this game going. ANet needs a continual stream of new players to sustain this "business model". That means future expansions will be geared towards a new player base. So what does that mean to the existing player base? They are probably going to make content decisions that you do not like. Somebody in ANet marketing probably has a statistic that says "The Average Consumer who purchased Guild Wars (insert chapter here) quit playing after X months". From their standpoint we have a shelf life. They're assuming we'll quit playing at sometime in the future. With that in mind are you going to build your "business model" around that bunch of customers? Nope.

The future of GW will be in the hands of new customers. Like any corporate entity, the future of GW will be based on money, in this case amount of sales. I can hear the response now "That's my point, we're not buying Chapter 3 because of the poor quality of Chapter 2". That's already been factored in the equation by the bean counters. They're going to expect a certain amount of people who bought Chapter 1 or 2 not to buy Chapter 3.

The sustainability of GW will be more of a function of marketing than it will be of quality design. Don't get me wrong, there has to be some level of quality to a game because poor reviews lead to poor marketing and poor sales. But if you were to look at Factions as a new game, having never played Chapter One before it would probably rate pretty well. The problem with Factions is that we (existing players) are comparing it to Chapter One, which without a doubt it does not measure up well to (I'd argue that as an expansion it measures up better, but that's another discussion).

So that's where I disagree....I believe GW's sustainability will NOT be a function of design limitations, but will be a function of marketing to new players. All games have design limitations. Not all games end up being sustainable.

If that's the case, then why are people still playing diablo 2?

Because (to answer my own question) their game design, as flawed as it was, was sustainable even with dwindling sales. ANet decided to go in a slightly different direction.

You can not abandon your core player base. That's suicide. Why do you think ANet kept coming out with more content (SF, Tombs, Titan Quests, etc) for existing players in chapter one? To keep people from going off and playing WoW. Still happened, but if ANet hadn't injected new FREE content, especially content that provided at least some replayability for exisiting players, the bleeding would've been worse.

In some respects, you're right, just look at diablo 2, and the expansion lod. Lots of people quit playing D2 after the grind got to them (I know, I was one of them) yet came back and played the snot out of lod when it was released. That expansion alone kept me busy for well over a year. And this was in spite of the duping, twinking, and grinding that was going on. You could get to level 90 in three days with the right help, and knowledge of where to farm experience, and when to jump to the next chapter. After that, it was all farming for phat lewt. For over a year. Cow runs over and over. What killed Diablo was the duping - suddenly, all that grinding to find magical items went goodbye. Everyone was uber leet, with top gear and storages full of SOJs/Runes.

But you can't kill off your core player base - the ones that bought multiple copies of GW, the ones that pvp every night, the ones that grind out Tombs runs over and over - because they are your sustainability. They will continue to buy the game simply because they have to keep up with the jones.

And if players didn't buy GW in the first place, very few will buy any expansion - even if it's marketed and designed as a standalone product. Either you liked GW's model of gameplay, or you didn't. If you had to choose between WoW and GW, you've made it by now. And apparently since 5 times more people are playing WoW, I'd say the masses have spoken. So, you're not going to pull away WoW players, it's too late for that. You need to sustain sales within your niche.

I'm not saying "all the time" just generally.

I have three copies of GW at home. I have one copy of Factions. I hope the trend doesn't continue. I love this game too much.

And anyone saying "oh, you obviously hate the game" - you're a moron.

Eden2k5 · May 05, 2006, 08:54 PM // 20:54

I have to admit. I was really excited and enjoying factions the first time through, but after having beating it (story missions) and realizing there isen't much to do... Challenge Missions and 12v12, which are even then limited to 2 or 3 areas total. Got my new armor, did some challenge missions, etc.

I wish I haden't bought the game and most likely will stop playing very soon, I've played alot of games and usually for some reason expansions/add-ons in the end help to kill or ruin a game. (I could give alot of examples).

I've played GW since the E34E event or Alpha as it was called, and bought the game as soon as it was released. But even with all this new stuff, I just get the feeling they made this chapter half assed. Even looking at the new skill icons, they don't look as well done as the chapter 1 icons.

I never liked HA, GvG is fun but I think it's time I try to find something else to play untill something new is out. Even with the new limited content, I still feel GW is getting more stale.

At least GW is a game you can come back too without fees (yay), but I'm gonna be far more reluctant to buy the next chapter untill I read/hear about the content in it and see that there are new things to enchance replayability.

Mimi Miyagi · May 05, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelechRic

Anthore set of reasons why needing alliance control of outposts is messing with the casual player. Faction farming... the new pastime.

Yes, and it's currently one of the hot topics within my own guild as well. As a player, do I REALLY want to spend all of my free time doing the same challenge mission over and over just to farm faction so we can do elite missions? For what? To get an item that fundamentally isn't any different from the pile of green items i have already?

So, basically what is going to happen (actually it's already happening) is that a single alliance will dominate ownership of a faction's elite challenge town, and all of the alliance slots will be dedicated to ants farming faction to maintain control. Quotas will be set. Control will be so out of reach by other alliances, that defections will occur. The controlling alliance will kick out guilds if they aren't holding up their end of the bargain, and there will be 100 more guilds begging to join. And thousands of players begging to join one of the alliance guilds just so they can partake.

Boy, for all of the people complaining about grind in GW, welcome to your new nightmare, lol.

greenlantern · May 05, 2006, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Anet has supplied all of as hours and hours and hours of entertainment, if not then why are you reading anything on this site?. They have stated that you don't have to buy the new Stand-alone(Chapter 2) if you don't want to. If you don't like what they have done STOP PLAYING it is that simple.

I will support this game with paying $50 for chapter 1, $50chapter 2, $20 for 2 new slot this summer, and $50 for chapter 3 when that comes out.

Eden2k5 · May 05, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

The other day my friend asked me about Factions (he doesen't have prophecies but played it on one of the BWE's) I told him not to waste his money unless he gets the first original game. Which I doubt he won't waste his time with now.

studentochaos · May 05, 2006, 10:01 PM // 22:01

People who were disappointed had blinders on. Not to say you should have walked in cynical, but rather you just didn't understand what this game is.

This game is as much of a grind, PvP, or whatever game as you want it to be. You don't have to grind faction to get into elite missions, but you can. You don't have to grind gold to buy mini-pets, but you can. You don't have to GvG, but you can. Factions provided more of the essential content for everyone at every level. If you look down upon those who grind for gold to buy vaniety items, then you are enjoying a different game. They look down on your 15 over 50% collector sword.

Guildwars is both a hardcore fanbase game and a buy and let go game. Anet when creating their market model admitted it wasn't like WoW where you have to keep people trapped in and playing. They REALLY don't care if you play WoW, they care that you buy the game every 6 months and enjoy it enough to buy it again. You ever played Mega Man? Great game, but Mega Man 10 isn't so different then Mega Man 3, but it is still one of Capcoms best selling titles. The reason is that old players love it enough to come back over and over and it is a solid enough platform that new gamers keep wandering in. GW isn't so different. Many who quit GW have come back. Will they leave in a few weeks or months to a new game again? Certainly. Will they buy Chapter 3? Probably. Don't mistake similarity for being worse. Most gamers have high levels of disposable income and Anet knows this. WoW wants you to care so much you never leave, GW is aimed at a much more casual kind of gamer, most gamers. Mind you, there are lots of serious grinders (HoH or shiney weapons), but in the end GW is designed to keep people buying, not playing. Yet, this game has lots of options of how to play and replay and provides opportunity for advancing to higher levels of play if you so choose. This is a recipe for success and the chance of Chapter 3 flopping look almost nil from an economists perspective.

As a final note, most people who are whining about factions will keep playing (and likely buying). Average players don't read or post on forums and don't make expectations like so many on these boards.

Takeko Nakano · May 05, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireKingX

Whining whining whining. That's all I ever see here.

But it's to be expected. Every new game has whiners

And every game has fanboys that refuse to see anything wrong with it.........

Eet GnomeSmasher · May 05, 2006, 10:37 PM // 22:37

I was one of those people that finished the game in 3 days before the headstart even ended. So do I think there's a lack of content? Do I think the game is too short?

NO!

Just because I rushed through the game and didnt bother to do a bulk of quests doesnt mean there is a lack of content. I wish Mimi would realize that, but he's the typical angry troll. Never listens to reason and calls others who differ from his opinion a troll....even though he constantly trolls other threads himself.

As for someone who said that new armors, minipets and new weapons go against the philosophy of skill > time. Uhh how so? If you PVP you can get the new armors with the new stats on PVP creation. Same goes for weapons. And how the feck do minipets have to do with skill > time at all? It's not like you can buy an "uber" weapon with the gold you get if you sell the pet.

New skins for armors and weapons do nothing to upset the balance of PVP OR PVE. Sometimes I dont know if you people think over stuff before you rant.

Loviatar · May 05, 2006, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

And every game has fanboys that refuse to see anything wrong with it.........

i never said it was perfect just that i will have fun when it finally gets here

it doesnt have to be perfect for fun and give them time to fix a bug right rather than fast

before the yells i would rather have fast and right but...........

Riceboi · May 05, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

Yes, and it's currently one of the hot topics within my own guild as well. As a player, do I REALLY want to spend all of my free time doing the same challenge mission over and over just to farm faction so we can do elite missions? For what? To get an item that fundamentally isn't any different from the pile of green items i have already?

So, basically what is going to happen (actually it's already happening) is that a single alliance will dominate ownership of a faction's elite challenge town, and all of the alliance slots will be dedicated to ants farming faction to maintain control. Quotas will be set. Control will be so out of reach by other alliances, that defections will occur. The controlling alliance will kick out guilds if they aren't holding up their end of the bargain, and there will be 100 more guilds begging to join. And thousands of players begging to join one of the alliance guilds just so they can partake.

Boy, for all of the people complaining about grind in GW, welcome to your new nightmare, lol.

This person speaks the truth!